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| Thread: Personal attacks allowed on HC? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted April 27, 2009 08:59 PM |
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You can always add a penalty or two. It's not like the amount of whining can get any bigger, right?
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted April 27, 2009 09:08 PM |
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To the mods, fine fair enough.
To Jolly Joker, advice noted.
To bystanders, your tune changes pretty quick when you are the one under fire.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 27, 2009 10:32 PM |
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2) The fact that Corribus' posts were deleted doesn't mean they were untrue. As far as I remember, truth wasn't the issue at any point.
I was referring to Gootch's comments, not talking about whether Corribus's posts were true. Corribus says x. PR says y. Gootch says z, which is about how PR and others are behaving. x has no bearing on whether z is true.
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I'm going to let that stand in its own beauty and venture the question, whether the Corribus-Demigod figurines are already on sale somewhere here and the new Corribus Shrine is finished yet.
No, not yet.
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I might add (again), that I was only trying to be helpful, giving PR a little advice on how to enact what Pandora counselled - stop whining and try and fight his own battles.
dot dot dot
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Eccentric Opinion
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted April 28, 2009 04:44 AM |
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Edited by Corribus at 05:21, 28 Apr 2009.
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Really, you've got to be kidding me. I looked at the list of new posts this morning and here I see a whole thread from Phoenix Reborn (hereafter: PR) entitled "Personal Attacks Allowed on HC?" Cue prolonged rolling of eyes.
Well, since I'm apparently at the center of this mish-mash, I guess I had better say something. I’ll try to keep it brief, but, well, you know how I am.
PR - I've seen little children called much worse than clowns and absorb it without as much puerile and melodramatic mewling as I've seen from you in the last few days. I swear, your overwrought complaints bring back memories of sitting in the car as a kid with my little brother, when he would whine to my mother, "Mom, he called me du-umb." My brother did it for no other reason than the satisfaction of an exasperated reprimand from my parents, or to elicit a demand to issue a forced (and therefore empty) apology. So I wonder - what are you looking for? You've demanded an apology, but I've never understood why anyone would demand an apology for anything, given that only apologies offered of free will have any chance of being meaningful. So what's the point? People who demand apologies do so only because they think that, if they get one, it somehow proves the moral superiority of their position without them actually having to win an argument using logic and thought. I.e., it is the fallacy that a forced apology trumps truth. Well, in actuality it only proves that the people demanding the apologies are maladjusted, insecure and have the social skills of 4th graders.
PR, you've also demanded that moderators punish the authors of perceived insults against you with the taking away of red stars. I wonder: would it give you some sort of hollow satisfaction if the moderators took away some red stars just because you asked for it? Why? I can’t for the life of me wrap my mind around the motive. If the moderators honestly feel I deserve to have a QP stripped for anything I write online, then so be it. I don't measure my life or happiness by QPs at Heroes Community. Having them removed is a nugatory punishment at best and would mean very little to me, which makes it all the more puzzling that you seem to think it's so important to your sense of security and feelings of well-being. Therefore, it’s really unclear what you’re after, and why you’re after it.
I don’t really want to rehash the events that led up to all this in the “Random” thread. But I do want to emphasize a few minor things. I posted in the original thread three or four times, repeating a question I didn't feel was satisfactorily answered. I have since been accused alternatively of taking the thread too lightly and taking the thread too seriously, using as a benchmark some nebulous standards for what kind of posts are fitting with the supposed theme of the OSM. This indicates to me that those who were allegedly outraged by my posts have no idea what they were really upset about and only had an axe to grind. Given the amount of off-topic garbage that gets posted daily in nearly every OSM thread, I felt the attention given to me in the "Random" thread for three trivial posts was unfair. I certainly do not and did not feel my posts were “spam”. I complained once in the thread in question about the deletion of my posts (actually, I did so before I even knew about what had been going on in the Feedback Thread) and yet I was pounced upon by PR and his rabid henchmen for being annoyed about it and “not letting it go”. Yes, I was initially irritated. So crucify me. But I didn’t really throw that much of a stink over it and I don't think two posts (and that’s a stretch) constitutes “not letting it go”. I certainly didn’t demand that Angelito put my posts back, I didn’t harshly rebuke him, I didn’t cuss anybody out. I never slandered PR. I never verbally abused anyone. I simply stated that I didn’t feel my posts were really that far off topic and made some cursory efforts to demonstrate this. Unfortunately, I failed to recognize that the rabble wasn’t interested in listening or discussing. If I had, I wouldn’t have bothered, but it’s too late now to undo that. I do respect Angelito as a moderator, and once my initial indignant reaction passed, I accepted his decision. That doesn’t mean I have to agree with it. But it wasn’t really a battle worth fighting, he’s the mod, and so, whatever. It’s done. I’m fine with it. Happy as a clam. Really.
Will I leave HC over this? While I am flattered that my sailing into the west would be lamented by some of you, I think you give this event way more credit than it is due. It's a stupid, passing triviality, perpetuated by people with way too much time and way too few layers of protective epidermis. It's amusing that somehow I was the epicenter of this fiasco, considering I had no such intent to cause a fuss and I did actually try to end it by issuing an apology to the only person with any potentially genuine reason to be upset with me. Ironically this person (lucky_dwarf) doesn't even seem to know this brouhaha is going on – or, more likely, doesn’t care; funny that a 13yo has more social tact (or at least, better things to do with his time) than the lot of you. Still, I do not rescind my earlier statement about what I perceive as the general atmosphere of this place. HC’s OSM doesn’t seem to be the friendly environment – serious, contentious and even heated at times, yes, but overall cordial and respectful – that it was in years past. Discussions are more combative now, less interesting because of all the bickering, the people quicker to take offense. You get the feeling many people just want to disagree for the sake of disagreeing, with a number of threads amounting to nothing more than argumentative pissing contests. Mutual trust and respect has degenerated. There was a time when an offered apology would be respected; now the rule of thumb is apparently to scrutinize its wording or ignore it altogether. What happened to integrity here?
But to answer the question: when I leave HC it will in the same way I have left the Round Table behind: gradually. If I post less in the future, it won't be because of a single isolated incident like this - it will be because of a general decline in the quality of discussion topics, posts, and posters that are here. Is that happening now? Well, you’ll have to make that evaluation on your own.
If you all take nothing else from this experience, I think it should be obvious that the best way to handle problems here is to do it like adults (should) do it in real life: communicate as individuals. If you feel that someone has offended you, send them a PM and clarify it. Chances are, they didn't mean it the way you interpreted it. And even if they did, at least you'll know, and you'll know that you made a good effort to set things straight. If you’re going to challenge someone in public, know the risks, and deal with the consequences like an adult. Don’t expect to challenge someone to a war of words and then complain if someone throws a few verbal barbs your way. We are fortunate to belong to a community where the powers that be afford us the luxury of relative autonomy, so we should exercise it.
I don't really want to speak for the mods, but my guess is that they don't need spies to tell them every little infraction of the rules. Nobody likes a tattle-tale, and by handling the situation in the way that PR did, all you do is create a huge morass of resentment. Nobody comes out winning or gaining anything. Even if we assume that PR’s intentions were honorable and that he really was trying to make HC a better place by reporting so-called violations to the mods, ask yourself: has HC become a better place as the result of this? Clearly, the answer is no. Road to hell being paved with good intentions, and all that. HC has become a decidedly worse place - even if by only a small margin. Because PR felt the need to demand absurd retribution for about 3 short posts of mine that he felt were spam, we now have 6 or 7 pages of posts that are far more damaging to the health of the forum. Congratulations. I don’t know about you, but I certainly have much less enthusiasm to post here at the moment.
In any case, I'll be damned if I waste more time posting on this topic again. If you want any further discussion on these points, you know how to HCM me. Aside from that, just take a step back and ask yourself whether the HC is a place you like and enjoy coming to. If it is, then you owe it to yourselves and the community to treat it well. This little incident is not an example of treating it well.
Thanks for reading. -C
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted April 28, 2009 07:41 AM |
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I'm In
I just wanted to be included in this thread because let's face it, there haven't been this many of us back here in the tribunal doing this kind of participation since the fall of Sir_Stiven.
Is this a revival of Heroes Community? Are we coming back to life here? It's about time! Somebody call Oldtimer, Cat, and PrivateHudson! Get their butts on deck! We've an argument to disentangle!
WOOHOO! HC is BACK! 
In the year 2013 I will have been here for 10 years.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted April 28, 2009 08:23 AM |
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I dont know whats going on here. I guess that is why Phoenix IM me.
People told me things but never told me what thread lol.
All I can say is.
I am still going commando 
Watch me swing!!!
With a song.
Free sailing, it goes where it wants to.
Free riding, to the places you want to.
Go to the left, go to the right. Hey you can drive right forward.
Free parking. You dont have nothing hiding it.
Free inspections. Nothing but a tree in the ground.
The wind can make it fly with your mind.
Free discovery, when you think you seen it all.
Free compassion, when you want nothing in the way.
Yes I am still going commando
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 28, 2009 08:34 AM |
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That makes more sense than the whole issue Acu  I sincerely hope people will heed Corribus' advice and not continue the war of the words with his post. It's about time don't you think? Somebody close this thread before quotes start flying.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted April 28, 2009 08:47 AM |
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You know what then.
I will say it.
This thread is crap.
Forcing someone to apologise for something is idiotic.
Then crying for a penalty is even worst then crying for your momma because you lost your lolly pop.
Come on we know how the Gootchy is on here.
If it get to you then back it up.
Otherwise unless it was a direct attack, then it will only be an opinion. Not a fact.
So yea, this thread is crap.
The reasoning is crap. The crying is uncalled for & crap.
Rap is crap
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Dreaming of a Better World
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 28, 2009 09:33 AM |
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@ Corribus
Edited addition: I just saw Aculias' "post" (which hopefully will be deleted or edited only AFTER you've read it): this happens when people with a good reputation like you abuse it for this kind of stuff: Lynch mob attitude.
I don't want to lecture you here or anything, but I will state my opinion on this.
You have apparently earned some reputation here, probably deserved (I wouldn't know, I'm not here for so long), but now you are abusing this reputation.
I didn't take part in any of the bickering before and made only one or two remarks on the issue that no one seemed to interest at the time, but the thing seems to get a bit out of hand now.
A couple of points.
The first thing to keep in mind is that it's not you who was at issue here in THIS thread. You were just the cause who set it in motion.
The second thing is - I (and I suppose some more) didn't believe you, and I at least don't believe you now.
In the "random" thread you asked for a definition and got it. I think, it is clear what OP meant, it was clear even before his definition, but his op was pretty short, and it would have seemed all the more trivial the longer the person in question has left school. OP is still in school and maybe not all that great there, so the thing may well have been pretty surprising (and random) for him.
In the deleted post you wrote as am example that you had to stop at a red light on your way home.
Everyone, myself included, interpreted this as kidding OP - making fun of him by coming up with something extremely trivial.
Your explanation after that came up with something like a defense: it had been unexpected since usually you stop on more than one red lights or something.
Whether that's right or not, you can't have seriously expected that someone would answer this or discuss it, and no one was expecting that YOU wanted to discuss about that or that it was in any way important or interesting for you.
Which means, simply, that you posted it with a certain purpose in mind, and that purpose wasn't friendly, and no amount of explanation can change anything about it. IT WAS OBVIOUS.
I don't think the fact is such is a problem - everyone may have an idea that may seem funny at first, but doesn't develop the way you like it; people just don't find it funny, don't see the joke, feel awkward about making fun of this and so on. If that happens, it's a good idea, especially if it was a casual thing for oneself, to just let it go. (Sorry for goving advice.)
Simply telling everyone, you didn't think anything about it, and drop out of the thread you hadn't have to contribute to anyway (you could have found a NON-trivial example, couldn't you?).
Instead you made a bit of a fuss about it, probably because the reaction was a bit hostile, and insisited on your intentions being pure or whatever, insisting, in any case, on the formal correctness of your posts instead of admitting that you actually couldn't name a valid reason for posting this at all, except making some kind of point that could only have something to do with your opinion on op.
You furthermore made more fuss after your posts have been deleted; if you reread the posts again, you'll see that after some complaining you apologize to Lucky D - but you hand the blame over to the "vicious" what you call - rather disrespectful - "rabble" now.
However, the only thing the "rabble" did, was calling your defense that you shouldn't have put up in the first place since it was a losing position.
I feel, that you didn't have missed anything out if you had NOT posted in that thread or simply had waited how it developed.
What followed, was simply the result of your complaining and your attitude of playing the offended: some people went to your defense and got personal about it. It actually had nothing to do with you.
And now this post. I find it overly melodramatic. What happened? You trolled, maybe a bit more intelligent than the usual troll, but in the end that's exactly the problem. Mayve some people HAD an axe to grind, I don't know, but YOU handed them the ammunition on a silver plate, by playing the offended diva when you just could have said,
Sorry, it wasn't funny.
You may ask now, who is JJ to lecture me about trolling. HE, for all trolls in the world. And that's exactly the point:
I was considering a post like yours, but could stop myself when I realized that OP probably was still very young and suddenly his post made some sense. And I know EXACTLY what the purpose of that post of mine would have been.
Now, you may not have acted out of sheer spite in the random thread, and your motives may have been rather harmless.
But ask yourself a question: what good can it do to try and teach a 13-year-old a lesson in triviality?
In any case YOU shouldn't whine now. If there ARE people who have an axe to grind, well, you know it and can be on guard. There will be a reason, and if there are more than one people, the guilt will be on both sides.
Let me add, personally, even though we seem to have clashed a few times over economics, I'd be very sorry should you decide to quit - however haltingly - over this issue here. You should have the, well, fortitude to simply admit you made an error, not by posting something trivial with doubtful purpose, but in not letting it go when you should have. I think, it's just that simple.
It's only your reputation that's blowing things up here: if it was me or Death or Mvass or someone else things were pretty clear, and I don't think you help your reputation by putting it to the test over this issue here.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted April 28, 2009 09:52 AM |
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Quote:
Rap is crap
Best and most sensible line in this thread*.
*Pandora's posts are not included in the above comparison.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Anakrom
Known Hero
(Scroll) Out of the blue
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posted April 28, 2009 09:59 AM |
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Quote:
13yo has more social tact (or at least, better things to do with his time) than the lot of you.
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted April 28, 2009 12:58 PM |
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I think that one day we'll all sit back and have a good laugh at how stupid this is - then we'll realize in horror that Aculias isn't wearing underpants.
I'm sure if we really wanted to, we could come up with a creative way to blow this farther out of proportion, but really - why would we want to?
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 28, 2009 02:28 PM |
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Now, here's what I don't get. Why did you people complain about Corribus's posts? Is it because he didn't take the thread seriously? It looks like he did - he even asked for the definition of "random". So did he take it too seriously? Then why did you people jump on him for not taking it seriously enough?
Get your act together.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted April 28, 2009 02:30 PM |
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Quote:
I think that one day we'll all sit back and have a good laugh at how stupid this is
Some people (like me) already do. God, this thread is so pointless, it's hillarious. Tell me about Maturity!
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted April 28, 2009 02:42 PM |
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Quote:
Now, here's what I don't get. Why did you people complain about Corribus's posts?
They rubbed people the wrong way 
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 28, 2009 03:12 PM |
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@Mvass
I didn't complain about it, but the posts were deleted, remember? So whatever the reason was, why people complained, they did seem to have a point.
From what I read in it they indeed had one. It was BSting, not more. A question for definition wasn't necessary, delivering a nonsense example and then defending it was unnecessary either - if there had been a real interest in that thread, finding a constructive example would and should have been no problem, but Corribus decided to play dumb.
The question isn't why they complained; the question is why Corribus posted that bull. I mean, usually you have a point, when you post something, but there was none except making fun of op's thread and seemingly trivial example.
The blowing out of proportion happened only when Corribus suddenly found it "unfair" that his posts were deleted and started to make a fuss about it.
You may concede him a point afterwards - is it really necessary to demand QP penalties? In sports this is considered unfair. However, he cannot use this to justify his trivial posts - without them it wouldn't have happened.
So the thing here is he should just have conceded that he indeed didn't act in the best of purposes when posting there. Full stop.
That cleared out of the way, he might have separately raised the question about why people are crying for his head over a case of, well, let's call it getting up wrong-footed.
Take the blame for what he was guilty for, which wasn't all too much, and then make a separate case of that crying for penalties.
And even though some of you younger and more unsuspecting people here may find this really nonsensical, it's actually rather important, since it is a case study in a very small environment of how things may deteriorate. Of how wrongdoing is used to justify other wrongdoing, until all is a vage blur and no one has a clear idea of what actually is RIGHT.
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"Nobody dies a virgin ... Life f*cks us all." - Kurt Cobain
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 28, 2009 03:38 PM |
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sex
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 28, 2009 03:57 PM |
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JJ (and Corribus, and others):
You have all been successfuly sidetracked into discussing the nature of Corribus's posts, when this isn't even what this thread is about. The question is that of Gootch's posts and whether they were personal insults. What Corribus said in the Random thread is only of tangental importance.
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Of how wrongdoing is used to justify other wrongdoing, until all is a vage blur and no one has a clear idea of what actually is RIGHT.
Right is easy. Right is when people stop whining about tiny things.
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Eccentric Opinion
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 28, 2009 04:10 PM |
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Quote:
JJ (and Corribus, and others):
You have all been successfuly sidetracked into discussing the nature of Corribus's posts
Problems with the shorttime memory?
Quote:
Now, here's what I don't get. Why did you people complain about Corribus's posts?
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"Nobody dies a virgin ... Life f*cks us all." - Kurt Cobain
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted April 28, 2009 04:19 PM |
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I think Jolly Joker is threatened & Jealous of Corribus.
Plus he might be wearing really tight, tighty whities over Boxers
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Dreaming of a Better World
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