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| Thread: movies and comic books, good relationship? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted July 22, 2009 02:21 PM |
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movies and comic books, good relationship?
this is a series of genuine questions for comic fans and movie goers here in the HC.
do good comic books make a good movie?
do movie directors nessecarily treat the material with respect?
if they don't, does the movie suffer for it?
do you feel that certain comic books need to be made into a movie?
who would you want to portray your favourite comic book hero?
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 22, 2009 03:23 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 15:25, 22 Jul 2009.
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Theoretically they can do a good comic book justice but that is not often the case. At least not if you count the amount of movies that keep spawning. We have some bright examples as spiderman, X-men, batman begins and iron man while others were not so good or downright horrible.
One thing to keep into account is that a movie tends to be standalone and comics follow storylines issue after issue, that means that many lovely details will be lost, some of which important to the meaning or feel of the original source. Acting, special effects and battle choreography is not an issue but what is often missing is exactly that, doesn't feel like the original. Or is out of depth while sticking to action and explosions.
Movies will often add action scenes to make up for a lot of dialogue but that ends up lame and it shows - take watchmen for instance. To condense a 12 issue story in one movie and keep it intact, fresh, interesting is no easy job. It was enjoyable but so much was missing, things were unexplained, others changed.
In V for Vendetta while a brilliant movie and just as brilliant comic while they kept most of the things they changed V's political beliefs from anarchy to make him a freedom fighter. Some may not mind but this is a whole different story, it is a huge diversion.
Of course changing elements of the story is not necessarily bad, if you just follow the comic page by page you have failed as a director. But that requires some sensitivity to the fans, to make it smooth as if the writer would have, make it credible. Make it better. I have lost track of times when a movie changes things for worse and I simply do not get it, why? Guess it depends to who the movie is aimed for, a casual viewer may enjoy spawn while a fan of the comic will hate it. But some decisions are bad regardless.
Another thing about movies is that they tend to suffer from shiny coolness syndrome. Wolverine origins was made to look and sound cool but it made little sense and lacked the depth of its predecessors had established, doesn't even come close to X-men 2 for instance. Shiny does not cut it these days, the audience have seen some movies and have expectations.
You want an example of a terrible comic adaptation? The spirit. I did not read the comics mind you, just checked a bit wiki and watched the movie. They make the protagonist immortal for no specific reason. The main villain that kept disguising himself whose face was never seen once in the comics is played by Samuel Jackson that keeps dressing up as if for halloween between scenes. When he has captured the Spirit he wears a nazi uniform. When he is at his laboratory he is dressed like a doctor, in his HQ he is dressed like a samurai and commands one of his minions to stab himself. It all makes zero sense. Then there is the amount of ridiculous in the movie  Just picture this:
The Spirit and Samuel Jackson battle in the swamp. The latter falls in the water, emerges behind the Spirit(how?) and smashes a toilet on his head(...) to gloat TOILETS ARE ALWAYS FUNNY BWAHAHAHA!! if I had watched that thing on cinema I would demand my money back. Sometime later Eva Mendez makes of photocopy of her @ss. Not exactly a quality adaptation.
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted July 22, 2009 03:36 PM |
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I am a anime and manga fan, so i kind of qualifiy since its in a similar lane.
Quote:
do good comic books make a good movie?
They can, if it was not the fact they would heavly violate the timeframe. A series of several hundred pages and long scenes are made into a 1 hour and 30 minutes long movie, how does that make sense? The adaption will suffer from:
*Skipping lots of stuff
*Attempting to push it all together
If it is done in a serie of movies, then it still could hit the wall about this, and thats a problem.
However it would make a better tv-series(ex: manga ---> anime) since we then could avoid the timeframe problem, it works for manga and i guess it would have worked for comic books.
However what anime suffers from is a simple problem:
*They managed to catch up with the publishing of the manga(creates fillers to avoid catchup), the opposite is that they send in seasons but that creates a usual timeframe problem thats huge.
*The directors/adaptionists does not respect the work and attempts minor butchering, while they think they are doing a good thing
Quote:
do movie directors nessecarily treat the material with respect?
Depends, the is butcher adaption existing.
Good adaptions exists, but they are rarely movies(timeframe).
A example of adaption decay butchering is the Dragonball live action movie, it is close to the definition of it.
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if they don't, does the movie suffer for it?
It might and it might not. If they just slave after the original, then it won't suffer so long it does not hit the timeframe.
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do you feel that certain comic books need to be made into a movie?
There are series i want into anime, but not movies. Movies tend to have their own tragic faults(timeframe, butchering cast, others...), while an anime adaption tend to work(Naruto, One Piece).
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who would you want to portray your favourite comic book hero?
I would not know, for series that its possible to get in actors to do the job it can work. But for series heavly blowing up plantsides or flying all over the place its harder.
I do preffere an anime, quite simpely.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 22, 2009 04:07 PM |
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Agree with Eldin a lot. Let me add, that a lot of today's action movies MIGHT BE comics just as well (you could make a comic out of them), but as a comic many would fail, as it is the other way round.
Apart from a couple of very old German comics I'd really love to see, I'd like to see Vampirella (there has been a movie in the mid-90s, but, uhhh) and Lady Death. 
Oh, yeah, and Metal Men!
On first look, comics seem better suited as TV series, but then, the budget is limited and the actors are as well.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted July 22, 2009 04:13 PM |
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I kinda liked the Spirit. It's fun for killing time, if nothing, just for its awkwardness and Samuel L Jackson.
What made me facepalm the most, of all those movies, is The Hulk.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted July 22, 2009 05:00 PM |
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted July 22, 2009 05:02 PM |
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Edited by Vlaad at 17:04, 22 Jul 2009.
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Quote:
I kinda liked the Spirit. It's fun for killing time, if nothing, just for its awkwardness and Samuel L Jackson.
The thing is it's a far cry from the comic, which has developed something of a cult following. Far be it from me to engage in such oral compulsive bird-beak behavior of a bunch of idle fans whining about how untrue the movie is compared to the book; I do realize real life (and film industry) is less indulgent of our peevish whims than mummy's ever-giving tit, but that particular flick is a sacrilege. Quote:
What made me facepalm the most, of all those movies, is The Hulk.
The 2003 or the 2008 film?
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted July 22, 2009 05:18 PM |
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Well, I can't say anything since I never read any Spirit comic.
About Hulks, well... Both. The second one seemed a bit better, though. But probably just cause I'm in love with Liv Tyler and I like Tim Roth and Edward Norton. But apart from them, it was an utterly and painfully ordinary film.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted July 22, 2009 05:22 PM |
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Some comic adaptations are good (first The Crow, Spiderman and the X-Men for example) some (like 2003 The Hulk) suck. IMHO there are just too many of them. Clogs up the sci-fi scene too much.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted July 22, 2009 05:30 PM |
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Quote:
and Samuel L Jackson.
...and?
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted July 22, 2009 05:43 PM |
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Edited by Vlaad at 01:59, 23 Jul 2009.
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Quote:
Well, I can't say anything since I never read any Spirit comic.
Because it's old - it dates back to 1940, and unlike some other comics, the groundbreaking original is deemed to be the best (although there have been decent revamps, such as the recent book by Darwyn Cooke of the New Frontier fame). The Spirit is many things, but not an action book with toilet humor.Quote:
About Hulks, well... Both. The second one seemed a bit better, though. But probably just cause I'm in love with Liv Tyler and I like Tim Roth and Edward Norton. But apart from them, it was an utterly and painfully ordinary film.
Yeah, acting is one of the advantages of the movies, sound and music being the other obvious one. I didn't realize how much I missed those until I saw Watchmen.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 22, 2009 05:46 PM |
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Talking about Spirit...
I used to read "Grey Ghost" as a kid (in German "Das Phantom". They made a movie about that one as well, The Phantom, which I watched, naturally, but you know how it is with things that were dear as a child. Only thing I remember from the movie is that I found it rather ridiculous.
Edit: And Marvel Comics:
Hulk? Didn't like it as a comic, so I passed on the movie as well.
Daredevil? Mediocre, as a comic as well as a movie.
I'd like an Avengers movie, though - some Hawkeye and Natasha (Black Widow) centered thing...
And THOR. Yeah. Imagine Thor SLAMMING his hammer onto something and the resulting lightnings.
Of course Spiderman has always been my favorite Marvel hero...
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted July 22, 2009 05:49 PM |
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Del_diablo, I think manga is somewhat specific, because it's halfway to the storyboard, unlike American or French comics.
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted July 22, 2009 05:58 PM |
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@Vlaad > true, but many of the same rules still apply for some reason. Mainly timeframe on the movie adaptions(and i shall not link to adaption decay on TVtropes ).
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted July 22, 2009 06:02 PM |
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Quote:
Talking about Spirit...
I used to read "Grey Ghost" as a kid (in German "Das Phantom". They made a movie about that one as well, The Phantom, which I watched, naturally, but you know how it is with things that were dear as a child. Only thing I remember from the movie is that I found it rather ridiculous.
Could you please post a pic or link to a video? I've tried to look it up, but all I got was Das Phantom der Oper and an obscure Batman character.Quote:
Edit: And Marvel Comics:
Hulk? Didn't like it as a comic, so I passed on the movie as well.
Daredevil? Mediocre, as a comic as well as a movie.
Exactly. Fans tend to forget that most of the comics are downright horrible. Frank Miller had a great Daredevil run in the eighties, but the rest is mediocre.
There have also been great adaptations that few realize were based on comics, such as Ghost World. Sometimes movies are even better than the source material (e.g. Men in Black).Quote:
I'd like an Avengers movie, though - some Hawkeye and Natasha (Black Widow) centered thing...
And THOR. Yeah. Imagine Thor SLAMMING his hammer onto something and the resulting lightnings.
Coming in 2010 and 2011! Can't wait.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 22, 2009 06:10 PM |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_(film)
Both an Avengers and a Thor movie? That's cool!
Read something about WB planning a Metal Men movie (a rather intelligently made comic, by the way; it used to find solutions for the problems the heroes faced by applying the different properties of the metal the Metal Men are: Tin, Lead, Iron, Gold, Platin and, uhhh... escapes me at the moment (there were 6; Platin was a woman).
Still... Vampirella and Lady Death would by default be strictly for adults, so those would be cool as well.
Edit: Ughh, that sucks! I just read about the movie that it will feature Iron Man, Hulk, Thor and Captain America - what a let-down. That combo had what? The first 3 or so Comics? Drat.
I want Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye, Goliath and the Wasp! I want Hercules and Black Panther! Black Widow and Vision! Waaahhhh!
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted July 22, 2009 06:19 PM |
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Edited by Vlaad at 16:29, 26 Jul 2009.
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Quote:
@Vlaad > true, but many of the same rules still apply for some reason. Mainly timeframe on the movie adaptions
What do you mean by timeframe? The limited length of a movie or something else?
My pet peeve when it comes to movies is that, unlike in comics, it's the director and not the viewer who dictates the pace.
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted July 22, 2009 06:26 PM |
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Edited by Vlaad at 18:40, 22 Jul 2009.
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@JJ
Thanks. I thought you were talking about some German book. I know about the Ghost Who Walks, of course. He was one of my childhood favorites, especially the stories drawn by Sy Barry (I still enjoy rereading the episode featuring the origin of the Forest Guard; not sure what's so appealing about that particular one). Yeah, the film sucks. LOL
Metal Men were cool. Sadly, I haven't seen those on the rack recently.
As for the Avengers, I'm a huge fan of Cap's Kooky Quartet myself, but let's face it - the movie would just flop.
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted July 22, 2009 06:46 PM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 18:47, 22 Jul 2009.
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Quote:
do good comic books make a good movie?
Yes and no. Most of the comic screen versions aren't good enough. Just look at the spiderman, the actor who plays him looks like is going to fall asleep every moment. Still comics movies are better than the pc game - movies....
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do movie directors nessecarily treat the material with respect?
They don't most of the time. They change the story.
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if they don't, does the movie suffer for it?
Yes, of course.
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do you feel that certain comic books need to be made into a movie?
I do feel that certain comic books need NOT to be made into a movie, because they are going to ruin the story.
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who would you want to portray your favourite comic book hero?
It's for my previous comment - noone...
let the comic be a comic and the movie a movie. I'm also against movies on books.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 22, 2009 07:56 PM |
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@ Vlaad
The German comics I mean are quite the opposite of Marvel. They are the first ones I read (actually the second ones; the first ones were the comics of a COFFEE producer: every pack of coffee would contain a bon, and for a certain number of those bons you'd get a, well, not QUITE a comic book of the adventures of a human coffee bean and her friends (no joke). There were pictures, and under each picture there was a 4-liner that rhymed. I was 4 at the time, 1961-62 and I totally harassed my grandma the whole day to read it to me. She didn't, of course, so I had to learn to read.).
I had just started elementary school, and since my mom had to work, I was with her on weekends only. On weekends, when we went to her flat we passed a shop that bought and sold used stuff. There I found the "piccolos": small comics, about one third of a regular sized comic, and pretty cheap, since used.
The names of those comics were Sigurd, Falk, Nick and Tibor.
Sigurd and Falk were Medieval comics, Nick was SciFi and Tibor was comparable with Tarzan, even though there was a strong Fantasy element. All those comics had the same artist and therefore looked pretty much alike.  They were rather mundane. The artist had a certain problem with German language. Translated in English, instead of saying, "someone goes TO a place", he'd say "someone goes AFTER a place", which is as funny in German as in English.
However, the comics had just GREAT titles (that guy was a master in founding titles that would fuel the imagination: "On filthy straw", "In chains" "Gone up in Flames", "Sunk!" and so on.
If you are interested, this site may give you an impression:
http://www.hansrudiwaescher.de/comics/index.html
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