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| Thread: Social and tax system in different countries |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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angelito
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posted September 01, 2009 08:46 PM |
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Social and tax system in different countries
Due to the latest "universal health care system" which is discussed by many members, an idea came into my mind.
I'm doing hard to compare different health care systems, if I do not know how the tax system and the social system in different countries work in general.
So what I would like to see is the following:
I will give 3 different examples of an employee refering to the amount of money he earns a month, about his marriage and kids, and about his religious status (the last one is important in germany, because you pay church taxes here too...)
Now I would like other members to take these examples and post the numbers which are real for their country. With numbers, I mean the tax he has to pay, maybe insurances he has to pay, social payment like health care, pension, unemployment etc...If you see my examples below, you will the the idea, I'm sure. Please try to take the same amount of money converted into your currency.
If we have gathered informations about let's say 20 countries, we can put them into a chart, so everyone can see the differences and then we have a better background wisdom when we talk about things like taxes, social systems etc...
So here are my 3 examples:
1. A man (30 years old) earns 4,000 Euros "gross" (I hope this is the right word for "before taxes and else are substracted") a month. He is not married, has no children and is catholic. Means he is in tax class ONE
With 4000 Euro gross, he pays:
a) 876 Euro wage tax
b) 48 Euro solidarity addition (obligatory; In germany paid since the re-union 1990, Reason was to build up east germany to the same level west germany had. Now it is mostly used as an "environment tax")
c) 70 Euro church tax
d) 290 Euro health care insurance (obligatory)
e) 398 Euro pension insurance (obligatory)
f) 45 Euro nursing care insurance (obligatory; this is additional to the normal health care insurance and for the case you need to be taken care of 24 hours a day)
g) 56 Euro unemployment insurance (obligatory)
So after all obligatory substractions, he will get 2216 Euros in his bank account. Means he has 44,9% deductions.
2. Same as above, but he is married, wife doesn't work, they have 2 kids and he has resigned from church. Means he is in tax class THREE.
a) 512 Euro wage tax
b) 13 Euro solidarity addition
c) 00 Euro church tax
d) 290 Euro health care insurance (obligatory)
e) 398 Euro pension insurance (obligatory)
f) 35 Euro nursing care insurance (obligatory)
g) 56 Euro unemployment insurance (obligatory)
So after all obligatory substractions, he will get 2694 Euros in his bank account. Means he has 32,7% deduction.
(You can see, the social charges are nearly the same, just the taxes are less. And of course the whole family is included into the healh care insurance of the man! Without paying a cent more!)
3. A man earns 2,000 Euros gross, is not married, has 1 children and has resigned from church. Means he is in tax class TWO.
a) 215 Euro wage tax
b) 1 Euro solidarity addition
c) 00 Euro church tax
d) 158 Euro health care insurance (obligatory)
e) 199 Euro pension insurance (obligatory)
f) 19 Euro nursing care insurance (obligatory)
g) 28 Euro unemployment insurance (obligatory)
So after all obligatory substractions, he will get 1378 Euros in his bank account. Means he has 31,6% deduction.
So these are the numbers refering to obligatory deductions. Not taking into account his private things he still has to pay.
So how do these numbers look alike in YOUR country?
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Binabik
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posted September 01, 2009 09:39 PM |
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Actually I had thought about doing a similar thing about taxes, but just out of curiosity rather than for any specific reason.
I don't know how it is in other countries, but in the US there are literally hundreds of taxes and they aren't the same everywhere. Different states, different cities, different counties, etc. all have different taxes. It's hard to compare because one state might not have an income tax at all, but they have high sales tax or property tax. A different state might not have sales tax but they have a high income tax. Each state, city, etc gets it's income from somewhere, but it can vary a LOT from one state to another. What's really important is to somehow know the total tax, but that's just about imposible to come up with.
Anyway, having said that, I'll try to get back to your questions and try to come up with some sort of answer.
btw, back in the mid 80s I made an attempt to total some of the obvious taxes and decided that the 50% tax bracket for a single person started at around $35K (approx double that income today due to inflation). To explain %50 bracket, it means for each ADDITIONAL dollar they earn, half would go toward taxes. This was a VERY rough estimate.
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Doomforge
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posted September 01, 2009 09:45 PM |
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In Poland, you lose roughly 1/3 of your earnings to taxes. Gets worse when your payment increases ofc, but I'm not very familiar with the upper levels. I'm familiar with "rock bottom tier".
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del_diablo
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posted September 01, 2009 09:47 PM |
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I don't pay taxes yet, so I don't know the entire system and might miss a few things, but as far as my limited knowledge goes:
X total earned, and something leeches of this:
-A little in union fee
-Taxes(i don't remember the % that is common)
-General moms on food is 25%(last time i checked)
-Insurance(house, car, etc)
-Loan (if you got)
-Pension whatever its called
-Addition fees that is refused to be taken away because of silly government
There is no "church" fee or sorts, most things are taken trough the general taxes. Moms or mva(Mer Verdi Avgift = More Value Tax/Expense), I do not know what its called in English.
Enterprises(if I used the correct word) and etcetera is where most is taken from compared to the taxation of the general population.
At the moment we get not so much back from our taxes compared to what we pay, and that is a shame. We still get a nice amount back however, but its not completely what we pay in total tax.
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JollyJoker
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posted September 01, 2009 10:19 PM |
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angelito, you forgot the children, in case 2:
While there is another way to do it, in this case he will choose the "children's support money which is 164 € for the first 2 children EACH.
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Corribus
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posted September 01, 2009 11:23 PM |
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I pay a crapload of taxes out of my paycheck. And that doesn't include the enormous sales tax (10% where I live) that's on everything. 
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Binabik
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posted September 01, 2009 11:54 PM |
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10% is one of the highest sales taxes in the country, but it's still a lot less than some countries. If you moved somewhere like Oregon with no sales tax they just get it another way.
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Corribus
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posted September 02, 2009 12:03 AM |
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Quote:
10% is one of the highest sales taxes in the country, but it's still a lot less than some countries.
Actually it is the highest in the country. 
Quote:
If you moved somewhere like Oregon with no sales tax they just get it another way.
I used to live in Pennsylvania, which had no tax on clothes or food. That was nice. Nicer was living within a 20 minute drive of Delaware, which has no sales tax on anything. So you get the benefit of no sales tax and the benefit of them "getting it another way" since I didn't live there.
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Shyranis
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posted September 02, 2009 03:57 AM |
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Edited by Shyranis at 03:58, 02 Sep 2009.
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My province has an 8% sales tax and the federal government has a 6% sales tax on many items (yes, that can often add up to 14%. Though they're thinking of merging them to make it 13% here). However many items are excluded (food other than junk, ingredients, food from "eating establishments" costing 4$ or less, kid's clothes and diapers, footwear costing 30$ or less, prescription drugs, good designed to help the disabled, vitamins and minerals, and many more. Of course, additional exclusions for businesses). Basically you pay it on the "good stuff". Junk food, eating out (most often anyway), entertainments.
The following is a copy and paste.
Non-taxable services
Examples of non-taxable services include:
dry cleaning
carpet and upholstery cleaning
personal services, such as hair styling, barbering, and beauty treatments
medical and health services
veterinary care
car washing and engine shampooing
labour to install or repair real property or fixtures.
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Mytical
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posted September 02, 2009 07:16 AM |
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Hmm I will probably forget quite a few things, but here is the jist of our taxes.
Federal Income Tax - Ranges, anywhere from I think 15%-35% depending on how much you make.
Social Security Tax - Not sure of exact precentage (sorry) out of 820 they take 48.48.
Medicare tax - Same 11.33 out of 820.
State tax - Depends which state, some have no tax I believe. 14.32 out of 820.
City tax - 1% (for where I am). Some again have none.
Sales tax - 7%
Gas Tax - .50c? Not exactly sure. That's per gallon.
Medical (if you qualify) $70 a month
Dental - $35 A month
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Binabik
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posted September 02, 2009 07:55 AM |
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Edited by Binabik at 08:46, 02 Sep 2009.
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1. A man (30 years old) earns 4,000 Euros "gross" (I hope this is the right word for "before taxes and else are substracted") a month. He is not married, has no children and is catholic. Means he is in tax class ONE
4000 Euro = 5,686 USD at current exchange rate
a) 909 (639 Euro) Federal income tax
b) 180 (127 Euro) State income tax (in Ohio)
c) 128 (90 Euro) City income tax
d) 82 (58 Euro) Medicare (medical insurance for low income, elderly, disabled people, some others)
e) 353 (248 Euro) Social Security (retirement income, plus income for some special cases)
f) Various other taxes depending on the state, city, county, etc.
29% total
At this income level each additional dollar is taxed at 39%
2. Same as above, but he is married, wife doesn't work, they have 2 kids and he has resigned from church. Means he is in tax class THREE.
a) 458 (322 Euro) Federal income tax
b) 164 (115 Euro) State income tax
c) 128 (90 Euro) City income tax
d) 82 (58 Euro) Medicare (medical insurance for low income, elderly, disabled people, some others)
e) 353 (248 Euro) Social Security (retirement income, plus income for some special cases)
f) Various other taxes depending on the state, city, county, etc.
21% total
At this income level each additional dollar is taxed at 29%
3. A man earns 2,000 Euros gross, is not married, has 1 children and has resigned from church. Means he is in tax class TWO.
a) 214 (151 Euro) Federal Income tax
b) 71 (50 Euro) State income tax
c) 64 (45 Euro) City income tax
d) 41 (29 Euro) Medicare (medical insurance for low income, elderly, disabled people, some others)
e) 177 (125 Euro) Social Security (retirement income, plus income for some special cases)
f) Various other taxes depending on the state, city, county, etc.
20% total
At this income level each additional dollar is taxed at 28%
Notes:
The above are deductions from your paycheck. The actual tax can be a lot different, meaning at the end of the year you might owe more tax or get some back.
b) and (c) are state and city taxes. Not all states or cities have these taxes. And some places can be MUCH higher than the examples I gave where I live. Locations that do not have these taxes get taxes from other places, probably high property tax. (my property tax is about $200 per month in addition to the state tax, about 2/3 of that goes to local schools, the rest goes to local police, fire department, etc)
c), (d), and (e) are "flat taxes" meaning they are the same percentage no matter what your income level and status for married, children, etc. (there might be city taxes that are not flat taxes, but I've never heard of it)
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Binabik
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posted September 02, 2009 09:00 AM |
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Edited by Binabik at 09:01, 02 Sep 2009.
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Quote:
Federal Income Tax - Ranges, anywhere from I think 15%-35% depending on how much you make.
Close It's 10-35%.
But remember that's the tax BRACKET, not total tax. It's also for taxable income, not gross income.
Federal payroll deduction for a single person with no dependants:
Gross annual income
minus 5700 standard deduction
minus 3650 personal exemption
10% for the first 0-8350
15% additional for the next 8350-33950
25% additional for the next 33950-82250
28% additional for the next 82250-171550
33% additional for the next 171550-372950
35% additional for the next 372950+
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angelito
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posted September 02, 2009 09:06 AM |
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Edited by angelito at 09:09, 02 Sep 2009.
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I would love if everybody would follow Binabik's (and mine) example and use the chart I posted. Otherwise it is just impossible to makem solid comparisons.
And on a different note: Don't list "private" taxes like fire insurance, car insurance, taxes on gas etc... Only those things which are DIRECTLY substracted from your earned money by the state/city/government.
@ Binabik
This "city tax" is very interesting. What is it "good" for? Do you have to pay it in the city you live, or where you work?
And yes, this "end of the year total tax summary" process, where you could get back some taxes or even pay more is present here in germany too.
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Mytical
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posted September 02, 2009 09:08 AM |
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Sorry that would require a non chaotic mind. Binabik has it covered though  .
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angelito
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posted September 02, 2009 09:11 AM |
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Quote:
angelito, you forgot the children, in case 2:
While there is another way to do it, in this case he will choose the "children's support money which is 164 € for the first 2 children EACH.
I didn't mention it by purpose. Would make things a bit too complicated.
This money for children is NOT related to your earned money, so these 164€ can get into the bank account of the woman (like in my case). Not tax related.
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Binabik
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posted September 02, 2009 09:16 AM |
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City tax pays for city expenses like police, fire department, city buildings, roads, city government, etc.
If you work OR live in a city with this tax you have to pay it. For example the suburb where I live does not have a city tax. But if I get a job in the main city (about 5 miles away) then I have to pay the 2.25% city tax.
If you live in one place with a city tax and and work in a different place with a city tax, then the place where you work gets the money first.
For example if I live in Binaburg with a 1% city tax, and work in Angelburg with a 2% tax, then Angelburg would get the 2% and Binaburg would get nothing.
If I lived in Angelburg with 2% tax and worked in Binaburg with 1% tax, then Binaburg would get 1%, and Angelburg would get another 1% (2% total).
It works approximately the same way if you live in one state and work in another.
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Binabik
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posted September 02, 2009 09:21 AM |
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Quote:
I would love if everybody would follow Binabik's (and mine) example and use the chart I posted. Otherwise it is just impossible to makem solid comparisons.
Um, that took me probably 3-4 hours to do, and I had the help of my sister who is an accountant. There are not many people in the US who would know how to do that unless they are an accountant or something similar.
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angelito
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posted September 02, 2009 09:29 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
I would love if everybody would follow Binabik's (and mine) example and use the chart I posted. Otherwise it is just impossible to makem solid comparisons.
Um, that took me probably 3-4 hours to do, and I had the help of my sister who is an accountant. There are not many people in the US who would know how to do that unless they are an accountant or something similar.
It took me around 10 minutes. 
Isn't there some kind of "gross-net calculator" to be found in the internet for each country?
I used that, just filled in the main numbers (4k, married, children, church), and with 1 click, all numbers there.
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Binabik
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posted September 02, 2009 09:33 AM |
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Nope, there's nothing simple like that here. Taxes here are extremely complicated. Accountants use special software to do it. But there are too many variables to simply enter the income into a formula and get the tax.
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angelito
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posted September 02, 2009 10:35 AM |
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Quote:
Nope, there's nothing simple like that here. Taxes here are extremely complicated. Accountants use special software to do it. But there are too many variables to simply enter the income into a formula and get the tax.
So then Obama has a new goal. Make the whole tax system in the States easier, so every citizen is able to understand where his money is flooding
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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