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| Thread: Is communism next? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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xerox
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posted November 04, 2009 01:03 AM |
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Is communism next?
Something is bothering me. We seem to move away from democracy and our personal integrity/privacy.
In Sweden (No, I wont write about Sweden a lot) the personal integrity is very sacred. Anyway. In Sweden the government has the right to watch over and basically spy on us and see our e-mails and SMSes and stuff like that.
While you could say that the only people that would "suffer" from that law would be criminal people, it feels like we are going to a more "Watched over society" etc.
Anyway. I was not going to talk about that.
But that it feels like our democracy (atleast in the EU) is fading away. Here is like the new law in EU (I didnt translate myself, I just google translated this from the article on aftonbladet.se);
* Police and criminal justice issues are supranational. EU Parliament will co in these matters, next to the Council of Ministers.
* Meetings between the EU heads of state and government will be headed by an elected, permanent President.
* A "foreign minister" will lead the EU's work in foreign and security policy.
* Parliament will have 754 members. Sweden gets 20 seats compared with 18 today.
* National parliaments will have influence on EU legislation!!!
* The countries pledge to help each other in such a terrorist attack or natural disaster. (only good thing)
* One million EU citizens can ask the Commission to submit a bill. But the Commission is not obliged to do so.
Look EU will be like a big country now. A nearly communisitc or fasistic country.
With a President and ministers etc -.-
And we cant ever go against the rules and laws that they might create. I promise you that there will soon be some "If you download stuff then you get banned from the Internet forever" -.-
This is also why the Nordic countries should make their own union. We dont need EU. We are rich snowes anyway.
In school they said that Swedens was one of the oldest democracies (Iceland doesnt count lol) and that democracy meant that when the governent come with a suggestion, then the people must vote.
But the all the time the government makes their own laws and rules without people voting for them. I think that every 5-10 year we should vote if we want to stay in the EU.
Most people here would probably leave the Communistic European Union by now.
There is no true democracy in the world 
And its fading away. I bet that in 1000 or maybe even as early as 100 years, the UN will rule the entire world -.-
I hate our governemt sometimes.
We should rename ourselfs into the United States of Sweden. USS. -.-
We are getting more and more controlled and it seems to me that democracy is falling down in a rapid pace.
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DagothGares
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posted November 04, 2009 01:18 AM |
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Representative democracy is better than direct democracy. the EU has no power.
You're becoming paranoid and there are no big extreme socialist trends in the EU, neither any big far right movements.
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mvassilev
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posted November 04, 2009 01:21 AM |
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The EU is largely a gang of unelected bureaucrats. The European Parliament is just a vacation/exile for politicians party leaders don't want in their country.
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TheDeath
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posted November 04, 2009 01:23 AM |
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Yeah sad really how easily politicians can be bought and what types of laws they can put in, even without the parliament 
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kipshasz
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Elvin's Darkside
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posted November 04, 2009 04:36 AM |
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EU parliament- a collection of morons gathered from all over Europe. Nuff said.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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JollyJoker
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posted November 04, 2009 08:39 AM |
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The morons are you people here who write such crap - basically it looks like you have absolutely no idea how things work in parlamentarism and how difficult it is to bring dozens of diffenet countriies together and make things possible.
From a nation's point of view of course every nation wants as much influence as possible on EU legislation, but there's an interest also in not having to follow EU legislation.
Eventually, this doesn't work very different from how it works within the nations and their counties.
The EU is what their member states make it, simple and easy. If they control only unimportant things people complain about the beaurocrats in Brussels who don*t do anything important, actually; but that's because the member nations do not allow more power to the EU.
If they ARE allowed to and make a bionding legislation for all member states, people complain about the beaurocrats in Brussels forcing them to adopt some strange laws: will Interpol shut down my PC next time when I download a bunch of worthless stuff? If that's your only problem...
However, the legislation is necessary. You cannot have vastly different legislation in a union of states where you can move around largely uninhibited and without any controls. For example, sooner or later taxing has to become equal. Think about it. For example, in the Western countries cigarettes are really expensive due to the high taxes on them. In the Eastern countries they are a lot cheaper. Now, obviously, people can make one hell of a lot of money by buying cheap East cigarettes and sell them more expensive in the West. This is forbidden, but without border controls quite difficult to avoid. The same is true with alcohol, but it's true for everything else as well.
But it has consequences for the work conditions of people as well - there is free choice of living anywhere in the EU. However, when you move from, say, Portugal to Germany you move from one social legislation to a different one with different payment, taxes, social expenses - and vastly different pensions. What pension will a worker get who worked a couple of years in Italy, then moved to Greece, then ended his career in Belgium. And who pays what?
Or - for all you schoolboys here. If your parents move from Sweden to England - what do they teach in school there compared to what to they teach in Sweden? What class will you enter there: will they have learned completely different things?
So this is a vast and very complicated process because with the Union IMMEDIATELY come rights (like free movement and the right to work and live anywhere), while it takes time, laws and beaurocracy to make all that WORK PROPERLY.
But I guess people expect that a couple of wizards just wave their magic wands a couple of times and - poof.
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Elodin
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posted November 04, 2009 03:59 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 16:01, 04 Nov 2009.
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Quote:
The morons are you people here who write such crap
Hmmmmmmm.
All governments want more and more power. Making a "government of governments" is basically making an empire.
Yes, the EU will gobble up more and more power from the member nations. The members will essentially become states rather than soverign nations and Europe will wind up under the iron boot of a communist thug.
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Doomforge
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posted November 04, 2009 04:03 PM |
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Quote:
The members will essentially become states rather than soverign nations and Europe will wind up under the iron boot of a communist thug.
But that would make it more like your beloved USA, wouldn't it? I mean, states and stuff. So what's the problem?
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TheDeath
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posted November 04, 2009 04:20 PM |
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UK has much influence on the EU. UK (& USA's) obsession with fighting terrorism will affect all nations in the EU sooner or later. I guess they'll start to tap our phones soon also.
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kipshasz
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posted November 04, 2009 04:58 PM |
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@JJ:
I read your post and I got my attention on your saying that something like cigarettes are cheaper at the eastern countries. Well I don't know what are the prices in other ex-soviet countries, but here, a pack of malboro costs a bit more than 2 euros. And by our wages and taxations, those two euros are a lot. A block of contrabanded cigarettes costs about 10 euros. So... No wonder that most middle and low class people(my dad included) fuel the so called 'shadow economy'.
I critisize every goverment. Those include the soviets, our current goverment and the EU. IMO EU it has done nothing good for my country. Sure there were finansial support for our farmers and small businesses, but it's mere pebbles. For some reason we have to shut down a perfectly good nuclear powerplant. Why? Maybe because it's been built in the soviet era, or maybe it turned 'obsolete'? Please explain to me, a middle class moron.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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Asgar
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 04, 2009 06:46 PM |
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I can't believe my eyes,a thread from xerox is in OSM and rated as "interesting" 
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TheDeath
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posted November 04, 2009 06:47 PM |
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JJ is just talking from his high-horse position. Obviously since he can even compare prices directly as if the wages and economy in the eastern is as good as in Germany...
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kipshasz
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posted November 04, 2009 06:52 PM |
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Yes, I agree with TheDeath.
Neither a german nor a british could survive here for a month with about 250 euros for a minimum wage.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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Azagal
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posted November 04, 2009 06:59 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 19:01, 04 Nov 2009.
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I doubt your economy is (proportionally speaking) twice as bad, is it? Because in Germany a pack of cigarettes costs 4,70 oO. That's pricey for anyone and we also have what Kip described as "low class" consumers here aswell what do you think the prices are for them?
Quote:
IMO EU it has done nothing good for my country. Sure there were finansial support for our farmers and small businesses, but it's mere pebbles.
Ehm come again? Compared to what the eastern countries pay into the large pot from which the money is distributed they get a lot more out of it than what they were paying. How your government decides to spend it is hardly the EUs fault. "Mere pebbles"...lol.
I'm completely with JJ on this one.
EDIT: Sure Kip if that's what you want to believe to make it easy for yourself go ahead. It's a lot easier to just ***** and moan about stuff than actually thinking about them. High-horse over and out~
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Warmonger
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fallen artist
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posted November 04, 2009 07:01 PM |
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Quote:
There is no true democracy in the world
There's some really good anarchy in Somalia.
Quote:
Look EU will be like a big country now. A nearly communisitc or fasistic country.
I can't resist the sensation you're talking bollocks.
Quote:
And we cant ever go against the rules and laws that they might create. I promise you that there will soon be some "If you download stuff then you get banned from the Internet forever"
So you feel like downloading illegal stuff and get away with it?
Quote:
We are getting more and more controlled and it seems to me that democracy is falling down in a rapid pace
if you don't want to be controlled, vote against it. It's as simple as it goes, there are no evil, opressive communists who want to monitor your mail.
Quote:
We seem to move away from democracy and our personal integrity/privacy.
It's called progress. People want and can know more. All you need to protect is the access to these data. However, it is nessessary for law to PROTECT vital data and that's what most of goverments are aware of.
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In school they said that Swedens was one of the oldest democracies
That is why you don't see the difference between communism, aliens and Flying Spagetti Monster, duh. Communism does not equal totalitarism, but requires it. Unless you claim that the access to your neightbour's income report will result in toiler paper shortage?
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antipaladin
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posted November 04, 2009 07:04 PM |
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i can't wait for nuclear fallout to happen.
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TheDeath
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posted November 04, 2009 07:06 PM |
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@Azagal: Google says Romania has 3 times less (more than 3 times) GDP per capita than let's say, Germany. A google search would've been too complicated for you though.
Quote:
So you feel like downloading illegal stuff and get away with it?
LOOOOL you are so clueless. You have no idea what happened in Sweden. Piracy was not illegal. ALL the laws they passed were not voted but forcefully by bought politicians, these are new laws. So it seems it's THEM who had a problem with "the old system". Don't talk as if it's we who want to "change" it, it was already changed to **** in the last 2 years. (I'm talking about Sweden obviously)
Quote:
if you don't want to be controlled, vote against it. It's as simple as it goe,s there are no evil, opressive communists who want to monitor your mail.
this made ma laugh. Who cares about a vote? Do you think it's so easy as pie?
And besides vote WHERE?
I don't remember me voting for Romania to get into EU (though of course, at THAT time it didn't seem like a bad thing, and probably still isn't!).
So can we keep less fantasy?
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Azagal
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posted November 04, 2009 07:13 PM |
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Quote:
A google search would've been too complicated for you though.
Probably not. It was just too bothersome to look up over a dispute of cigarette prices. The real argument was the second which I know to be true. You can google that if you don't believe me, you seem quite capable. The eastern countries are a lot better off with the EU than without it, whether you feel it or not doesn't change it.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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kipshasz
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posted November 04, 2009 07:15 PM |
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@Azagal: well seeing hordes of unemployed people and our prime minister crying about budget debts, I'd say yes. Yes, that Lithuania's economy is a lot worse than Germany's. But after spending almost an hour standing in a line at a supermarket, I'd think twice before saying that. Then again, germans have better life conditions than we do. Basically it's like comparing David to Goliath(in size that is)
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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Warmonger
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posted November 04, 2009 07:19 PM |
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Death, if you claim to have no influence on politics and community, don't take this right from others. Now I see you're just assembling some theories from front of your monitor.
In Poland we see it clearly as once commusim has fallen, thousands of factions, associations and activists as well as journalists or common people change this with their own hands. Are you waiting for someone to knock at your door and kindly ask you 777 questions about things you want to change? Real democracy requires ACTIVITY.
Otherwise, yes, communists, greenies, homosexulas or pastafarians can take over the world which you never bothered with.
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