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| Thread: Grails structures: the poll |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted December 19, 2003 11:33 PM |
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good post xar, though i think you underestimate stronghold. Dungeon can become suffering because of a 15 extra spell power without any real good dmg spell only gets you so far.
But an extra 20 in attack is massive. Lets say you fight a chicken opponent, you will need to attack him as soon as possible since he will get 50% more units then you each week. So he will hide in town where he will get an extra 20 in attack skill if you attack... and if you dont he will come at you with a massive army when he feels he has enough of an advantage.
Off course you can always trap him up too like fortress army but stronghold has 1 good shooter in clopses, which you will get if you got a 50% extra growth. Also orcs can deal some harm. And when finally wall drops ancient beths with an attack of 50+ will kinda eat you up alive.
Though inferno still has the best grail special IMO, necropolis necromancy is also good.. can easily make an extra 1k skels if long enough game. And towers possiblity of reveal whole map is nice... unless there are cartos around 
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 21, 2003 04:42 AM |
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Hello Xarfax,
I don´t very much agree with you. First, Conflux´s having all spells is not necessarily an immediate game winner when DD and Fly are banned, but still extremely strong. There´s Town Portal for advanture map play and Resurrection for play against AI opponents. In a final battle, having the full choice can be a big tactical advantage, and I also think that Armageddon and Implosion are not very likely to be useless.
Second, yes, castle siege bonuses are crap usually. But when a grail structure has been built, the opponent usually is in a do-or-die situation. Rush that grail castle or lose against the other player´s +5K gold and +50% production.
I once won a game that I otherwise would have lost, just by bluffing I had the grail - digged a hole, chained back home, and spent all resources at the marketplace for castle and as many troops as possible.
Blocking the door is certainly the right thing to do against a Carnivorous Plant, but with Lizard Warriors gaining +10 attack, and opposing shooters fighting against +10 defense and over castle wall, you´d still need to be Tower to win a ranged duel.
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted December 21, 2003 04:20 PM |
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Quote:
I don´t very much agree with you. First, Conflux´s having all spells is not necessarily an immediate game winner when DD and Fly are banned, but still extremely strong. There´s Town Portal for advanture map play and Resurrection for play against AI opponents. In a final battle, having the full choice can be a big tactical advantage, and I also think that Armageddon and Implosion are not very likely to be useless.
Hi Therin,
not that i said that this bonus sucks, if u reread my post ull see that i said that it is (compared to others) not so good as u think in first sight. Some of the reason ive mentioned before..huge armies, dd/fly banned ..additional to this opponent will have the chance with grail to built up mageguild too, as he has enough money and resources AND dont need to build money structures and therefore can built mageguild on week 2 too. Of course he wont get ALL the spells but i guess there will be at least one usefull spell too...also not to forget the books/red orb/recanters and coursed ground that ease out this advantege too.
...but all in all i of course did not say that this bonus isnt powerful..its just not that powerful as it seems to be "in first sight".
Quote:
Second, yes, castle siege bonuses are crap usually. But when a grail structure has been built, the opponent usually is in a do-or-die situation. Rush that grail castle or lose against the other player´s +5K gold and +50% production.
...lol thats a joke. Of course its always a game winner if u have the grail and the other not? U dont really want to discuss this, dont u? What a joke. This thread is about comparing the bonuses, and if u compare the bonuses those are NOT so good as the others.
@stiven: Please reread my post concerning the strong and dungeon bonuses, i wrote: "If u want to avoid those bonuses, simply dont enter". Of cousre the +attack/+spellpower will be a killer..if u reread it ull see that i didnt wrote that they suck, i wrote that they suck (compared to others) cause u simply can avoid those bonuses by "not entering". Else with fortress bonus, with this bonuses u CAN be trapped (dont have to be trapped).
Quote:
I once won a game that I otherwise would have lost, just by bluffing I had the grail - digged a hole, chained back home, and spent all resources at the marketplace for castle and as many troops as possible.
..lol i really doubt that u did that, in germany we would say "u sucked it out of your fingers to tell a story"..but anyway as u can see if uve built the grail or not your opponent must ve been a really stupid newbie.
Xarfax1
PS: I really dont like if peeps really TRY to misread posts on purpose, TRY to read between lines and restate things i never wrote.
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 21, 2003 10:06 PM |
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Hello Xarfax,
Quote:
...lol thats a joke. Of course its always a game winner if u have the grail and the other not? U dont really want to discuss this, dont u? What a joke. This thread is about comparing the bonuses, and if u compare the bonuses those are NOT so good as the others.
no, you do not understand. Unless you play a silly map like Good to Go, the grail structure is built by one player. Can this be expected to decide the game? Of course. Is there a chance to turn around the game despite of the huge effect of the grail? Only if you have a second castle, or a quick rush on the way.
The bonuses given by Stronghold, Fortress and Dungeon make a rush against the grail town very difficult to do.
-> These said bonuses are useful in games where the grail is digged out and built.
Quote:
..lol i really doubt that u did that, in germany we would say "u sucked it out of your fingers to tell a story"..
In germany we would also say:"Man sollte nicht zu viel von sich selbst auf andere schließen."
Quote:
but anyway as u can see if uve built the grail or not your opponent must ve been a really stupid newbie.
In germany we have another saying:"Der den Du so bezeichnest, war schon ein Heroes Veteran, als Du Dir noch in die Windeln geschissen hast ." In Season 1 there weren´t many players who knew about the town bug. I think it was only in the end of season 2 when the trick was revealed to a larger "audience" by a russian player.
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted December 21, 2003 10:27 PM |
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...your answer is too silly that i simply dont answer to it.
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 21, 2003 10:44 PM |
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What a pity, I would have loved to see another example of your eloquence and good-natured openmindedness. 
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Evil_Warrior
Famous Hero
Duke of Demon
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posted February 05, 2006 01:40 PM |
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For me, additional growth have been added as the Grail built. So, more additional troops like 'week of Imp' or '70% necromancy skill' aren't quite important anymore. Without them, we still have great number of creatures.
The Tower Grail reveals all entire map. But remember, when we got the Grail, we HAD already reveals ALMOST area to visit all obelisks. So, the Tower Grail non-gold bonus isn't quite important either.
I prefer the Conflux grail. I'm sure, although we had got the grail, there are many important spell we hadn't had yet.
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted February 05, 2006 03:20 PM |
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Who said you need to visit all or even most of the obelisks to find the grail?
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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Fortress_fan
Disgraceful
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posted February 05, 2006 05:08 PM |
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Carnivorous Plant isn't bad! It often saves me against overwhelming forces when I get trapt. And I win because of my supeiror morale!
How I should number them:
1. Auora boreailis (Conflux):
The best of them all! It gives you all spells, whit is very good because no one else can learn all spells whitout scouting the whole map! Unfourtenaly it dosent give you the amragedon spell.
2. Warlord’s Monument (Stronghold):
This is supeiror to all other "skill-increasing grails"
It is good to have supeiror attack skill when you are foeced to fight against a quantity-based opponent.
3. Carnivorous Plant (Fortress):
This also heps you against traps, even if 20+ attack skill is better.
4. Tomb of Souls (Necropolis):
Helps to get hordes of skeletons. No other comments...
5. Guardian of Earth (Dungeon):
Good if you have a Warlock whit many spells.
6. Deity of Fire (Inferno):
Hordes of Familiars are good, but you sill have to pay for them and they are expensive and weak. Better whit a tomb of souls.
7. Skyship (Tower):
Well, knowing the whole map is good, but when you have found the grail you have aldery explored at least 65-80% of the map. It is only whort to build, if you starts whit it. (And you probaly don't)
Spirit Guardian (Rampart):
Simply whortless! The only thing it does is that you don't need to waste experence on a luck secondary skill.
Colossus (Castle):
Whorst of all! Nearly all Castle heroes starts whit leadership, and they have all a enormus chanse to get it on all levels, so when you had found the grail, they have all suerly get expert leadership.
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greek_god_su...
Famous Hero
Bringer Of Light
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posted February 05, 2006 08:44 PM |
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I agree with that colossus thingie, where do you need any more morale when all troops of same alignment gives you +1 and tavern&arch angels give you +2 more. Add to that leadership and possible arties and the only thing this specialty is useful for is that it keeps your morale in +3 even if there are some penalties.
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After all, marriage and murder are not too different - one ends your life and the other is a crime
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Evil_Warrior
Famous Hero
Duke of Demon
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posted February 06, 2006 08:34 AM |
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Quote:
Who said you need to visit all or even most of the obelisks to find the grail?
So, how? With cheating and then load Autosave?
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted February 09, 2006 01:36 AM |
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Grail Hunting
Quote:
Quote:
Who said you need to visit all or even most of the obelisks to find the grail?
So, how? With cheating and then load Autosave?
If the Grail happens to be on the area of the map you have revealed, then by visiting 2-3 obelisks (perhaps more on XL) you most probably be able to make a match between the map and the location for the grail; you simply don't have to wait for the entire location of the grail to be revealed. 
Then, let a hero dig for a week or so at the area around the center of your screen, where the grail is usually kept. If you are lucky enough, even 1 obelisk can be of great help on Medium, but ofcourse needs close investigation ...
Just a thought: Do you really search for the grail? I find the whole process boring - that's the reason I 've not built all grail-structures on each city yet  - and fortunately on most games I play grail hunting is banned.
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Evil_Warrior
Famous Hero
Duke of Demon
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posted February 09, 2006 03:22 AM |
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In other words, finding the grail without visiting most obelisks can just happen if we are lucky, isn't it?
So, normally, we have to visit most of them and reveal most area of the map. and it means that Tower's grail is not quite important anymore
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BlackkDeathhh
Hired Hero
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posted January 13, 2007 09:58 PM |
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They are not so different in terms of usefulness. Can the grail owner lose? The standard bonuses are good enough to win the game. I have to say though, I like Skyship more than the others. I love the feeling when I am watching my enemy and knowing that he cannot see me.
Guardian of Earth has the coolest name and look among all the grail structures. Simply perfect. It looks completely natural, unlike the Colossus of Castle.
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JungleMan
Hired Hero
Funkenstein
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posted January 14, 2007 03:37 PM |
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Every grail, doesn't matter from which town, increases daily income by 5000 gold and weekly army production for 50%. That's grail's main purpose, not some additional abilities. So, when you're talking about them you can't just say some of them are bad or great. They are your key to victory.
Example:
Tower ( creatures fully upgraded ) - weekly income = 28000, weekly army cost = 30800 gold. Without estates and gold mine you won't be able to recruit whole army, ever.
Tower ( creatures fully upgraded + grail) - weekly income = 63000, weekly army cost = 46200. 16800 gold left to spend on what ever you want, cars, girls, ...
What I'm trying to point out is that grail without specialities is also great stuff for your town, but I'm sure all of you are aware of it.
Since everybody talks about additional abilities, I'm gonna say something, too.
Castle - +2 morale bonus? Very bad bonus because almost every knight or cleric starts with leadership. Useful if you're using non-castle hero. Can easily be negated by treasure artifact. To sum up, one of the worst bonuses, still better then rampart's.
Rampart - +2 luck. Can be worthy of saving secondary skill slot, but it also can be negated with tresure artifact. The worst bonus. Personally, I think that morale bonus is better then luck. In both cases bonus is too low, maybe +5 morale/luck.
Tower - reveals entire map, +15 knowledge bonus to defending hero. Revealing entire map is very useful because you can see what enemies are planing. +15 knowledge is not that good. Many spell points, but it would be better to add some power skill, because wizards already have lots of spell points and alchemists are hybrid ( might & magic ) and have good knowledge.
Inferno - every week is the week of Imp. Good bonus for your town ... Some other perspective. If enemy is about to reach grail first, then let it be inferno, please. First of all, your army is secured, no plague. Second, if your town is inferno, too, then omg. Great bonus.
Necropolis - +20% necromancy bonus. Have to agree with most of you, one the best. Actually, it's my second best bonus, after conflux's.
Dungeon - defending hero gains +12 power skill. Better then tower's, even overlords ( or other might heroes) have enough spell points ( mana vortex ). Spell's deal huge damage.
Stronghold - defending hero + 20 attack skill. Even if your army is weaker it can save you. The best bonus dealing with defending town during the siege.
Fortress - defending hero +10 attack and defense skill. Like in stronghold's case ... But, I think stronghold's bonus is better.
Conflux - places all spells in your spell book. My first choice, spells you can count on. What I like is that you don't need wisdom, and we all know wisdom is must-have secondary skill.
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Evil_Warrior
Famous Hero
Duke of Demon
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posted February 04, 2007 08:59 AM |
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Quote:
Conflux - places all spells in your spell book. My first choice, spells you can count on. What I like is that you don't need wisdom, and we all know wisdom is must-have secondary skill.
Yep. As I wrote above, Conflux Grail brings most effective bonus. With the Magic university, we only need to get Wisdom. Then the Air, Water, Fire, and Earth magic skill can be trained in Magic University. So, All spell we got from Aurora Borealias can become Expert if we had learn the basic. Then, just cast Fly, Dimension Door, and Town Portal......
by the way, the Aurora Borealias of Conflux is the Best Grail.
but, the Best-Looking Grail is the Soul Prison of Necropolis.
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immortality
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 11, 2009 10:02 AM |
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hi everyone, i hav the complete version of H3 anywayz i cant find a grail buiding option in the building list. so...can anyone tell me how to get a grail building?
ur help is really appreciated!!
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted October 11, 2009 10:07 AM |
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Find the grail, bring it to a town, click on the main building of that town (which brings up the building plan), then you will automatically get a message like "Do you want to build the grail as permanent structure in this town?".
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 17, 2010 06:06 PM |
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how exactly do you exploit the inferno grail?
some people are talking about hundreds of demons after month 1, but week of the imps that's +5 imps per castle per week, right?
if you have 1 castle, that means 1 more demon every other week...
so the trick would be to have several inferno towns and diplomacy maybe?
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tigris
Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
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posted August 17, 2010 07:16 PM |
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Actually it means imp population doubles, which apart from your castle growth,will place random stacks of imps on the adventure maps which are set by default non aggressive, so there is a good chance for them to join you.Works like diplomacy in a way, especially if you have visions.
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