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Duke_Falcon
Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
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posted May 12, 2010 09:45 AM |
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I think there are crimes that must trigger ultimate and irreversible punishments. But castration is not a real punishment for rapist because they make their crimes because they want to feel how dominating they are.
Extermination, nevertheless, is a punishment for them. A dead rapist do not rape anyone anymore. Cruel but effective. And yes there is a chance to punish innocents this way but it is a rare thing...
Death is a great force that hold back many to make their crimes.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted May 12, 2010 09:54 AM |
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The legal term? Maybe. That is because the law is a bit antiquidated. It was never even conceived that a female could rape (though they can, believe it). I guess when they did consider it, the only thought of females raping males..and then of course males would enjoy that right? *cough*bs*cough*. Never crossed their pea brains that a female might force herself on another female (child or otherwise).
I believe only 'penatration' is considered for 'rape', and other things are considered for other things. Other crimes can be committed while the crime of rape is in progress. (Ie torture, etc), but does that make it not rape? No. That would be like saying "Hey you killed a person while robbing them, so the robbery never happened only the killing did."
This subject is a bit .. hot button for me though. Maybe it is best if I walk away...
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Message received.
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Shares
Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
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posted May 12, 2010 10:40 AM |
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Well, let's say about of 50% of rapes are made by men (a very low number!) and that 50% improves (stops raping), then it is still a reducement of 25% rerape. The other numbers, 80% compared to the 2,3%, speaks for themselves. Rape is often consider the worst crime, except for murder, and should thus require extreme methods.
Allowing voluntary castration seems obvious to me. It is a free choice and it helps every one.
Allowing castration as a punishment should at least be allowed for specific criminals. Criminals are persons too. They all have their own problems, reasons and ways of working. The people working with the criminals can often see these things (it's their job after all) and should be able to make a request. Chopping of every penis in sight for sex offenders. That'd be stupid since it will not help at all in some cases, and will even make it worse in some. It is how ever very clear that it also helps some times, and people who actually are professionals on the subject should be allowed and able to make such request after some motivation.
It should thus be allowed as a treatment not a punishment(. The difference being that as treatment it'll be issued by people at re-hab, that propably have education and knowledge about both the psychology and medecine. As punishment it'll be issued by a judge that do not.
Other points: Sperms can be stored, thus being able to have kids is not a very good arguement.
It could be issued only to reraping people.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 12, 2010 11:29 AM |
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Umm, people, castration means just the testicles, not the penis.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted May 12, 2010 11:51 AM |
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Edited by ihor at 11:52, 12 May 2010.
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Quote:
I think there are crimes that must trigger ultimate and irreversible punishments. But castration is not a real punishment for rapist because they make their crimes because they want to feel how dominating they are.
Extermination, nevertheless, is a punishment for them. A dead rapist do not rape anyone anymore. Cruel but effective. And yes there is a chance to punish innocents this way but it is a rare thing...
Death is a great force that hold back many to make their crimes.
I don't want to support rapists but I don't agree with such a thing.
Yes death is force, but only for those who are mentally healthy, though rapists like serial killers usually have psychic problems and fear of death will not be thing, that prevents them from doing their crimes.
Moreover you say the punishment of innocents is rare thing. How do you know? And even if 5% or 1% are killed because of wrong accusement, what would you said to their relatives when truth would rised to surface?
And finally everyone could make a mistake, thats why society should give him a chance to reform.
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Shares
Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
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posted May 12, 2010 12:12 PM |
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Quote:
Umm, people, castration means just the testicles, not the penis.
I know, you don't just chop 'em off either.
And I totally agree with Ihor. If it even once woulb an innocent that woulb be killed, then THAT would be murder! Then we would have to kill the whole jury, the cops and the judge. Yay...
Any way, there's no actual arguement for the death penalty, since is also more expensive, and (statistcly) less efficient. People seem to fear a life in prison more than being executed with precise science with out feeling any pain what so ever. Unless you want to proceed bluntly and brutely (like China(i.e. blowing the brains out without any thorough investigation)) death penalties are kinda stupid.
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted May 12, 2010 03:08 PM |
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My opinion:
#1 A case by case study under rehab that evaluates if a person that's too big of a threat to society is still so (looking at the reasons).
#2 For people with sex driven reasons, who're too big of a threat, it's offered that they'll be released in turn of castration, or they can decide to stay and be isolated.
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Living time backwards
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted May 12, 2010 04:11 PM |
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Forget castration, execute the filth. Society has no need of such people.
Quote:
I believe only 'penatration' is considered for 'rape', and other things are considered for other things. Other crimes can be committed while the crime of rape is in progress. (Ie torture, etc), but does that make it not rape? No. That would be like saying "Hey you killed a person while robbing them, so the robbery never happened only the killing did."
In Michigan, there are four degrees of criminal sexual conduct, only two of them involve penetration. Rape in my state includes more than just penetration. Fondling, touching, and other unwanted stimulation of the genitals can constitute rape as well.
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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Xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 12, 2010 05:08 PM |
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In Sweden there is rape (usually penetration, could be oral aswell I guess) and "Sexual harassment" which includes touching etc and the punishment on "sexual harassment" is "lighter" than rape.
I like the idea of having some kind of not-forced chemical castration. It would be even better if you could reverse chemical castration (so you do not become castrated anymore... I know, sounds weird) in case the "ex pleasure-rapist" changes his mind.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted May 12, 2010 05:17 PM |
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I'd define rape as any act defined as being sex, however forced against the will of the other part.
@Xerox:
I wouldn't say it's so much about them changing mind, I'd bet, at least in the start before completely giving in, that many really don't want to commit these crimes. It's probably more about the ability to overcome those emotions, i.e. levels of free will.
Removing the emotion solves the problem, but only in one aspect. Said persons free will is probably still very low and I'd guess these people would be more fragile to give in to other emotions as well.
It'd be better if we could empower free will in stead of removing every threat to it, this way, we'd solve all problems that're emotional driven at once.
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Living time backwards
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Father
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posted May 12, 2010 06:02 PM |
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Well I read through the thread and to be honest I'm a little bit surprised that the current argument is only either for or against castration (be it chemical or physical).
My stance on it comes from a different angle. When I think of that type of treatment, I immediately think to myself "is this human?". I can't help but to think that this is wrong to do in every sense. Yes, what they did may be a terrible and bad thing, but 2 wrongs never make a right. To continue my argument, at what point do we as a collective society decide that an individual is no longer human? At what point do we decide that "since we can't fix the problem, we'll just eliminate it"?
Does not the FOR side of the argument just wreak with the stench of something wrong, even something revengeful? I believe that the answers to this challenge do not lay in acts that would take us away from human nature. I believe that the answers lay in acts that would take us closer to our humanity, and theirs as well. There is power in forgiveness and enlightenment. Are we saying that we are better beings than these individuals? Where is that line drawn, that is the real question being debated here it would seem.
Either way, and to be clear I am for finding more humanitarian ways. Be it counseling, visits, follow up, programming, even healthy medications. And yes, if there are violent ones or ones that need to be watched, I am happy to pay the taxes to keep them alive, all be it locked up and safe. At least this way we prolong their lives and keep ours safe while we still hold on to a fair piece of what makes us human and not so terribly barbaric. 
____________
Once Bitten,
Twice shy,
Be careful,
This one has sharp teeth.
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Keksimaton
Promising
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand
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posted May 12, 2010 06:25 PM |
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I fail to see what this would accomplish. Nice and high pitched voices for the prison choir? Wasn't modern law in western civilization more about rehabilitation rather than eye for eye?
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Noone shall pass, but no one besides him shall pass.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted May 12, 2010 07:01 PM |
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When your daughter gets raped some day, let's see how much you want to rehabilitate the person who did it.
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted May 12, 2010 07:07 PM |
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@Keksi
I don't think this thread is about eye for an eye or revenge. Anyway, at least as long as it's not a forced operation.
@OD
That's what we've courts for, to take away the emotional aspect we wouldn't be able to control if it'd been someone near to us that'd been affected.
Because you choose to love someone does not entitle you to kill someone else despite their actions.
Edit:
As a comment to Fathers post, I think what's really required is for the state to not decide upon actions against people at which the state would also see as a crime on the same time.
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Living time backwards
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted May 12, 2010 07:08 PM |
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Quote:
Another argument against: there are always cases with wrong accusation, but the results of castration are irreclaimable, which could become a fatal change of person's life.
This, you can never be 100% sure that a person is guilty.
If we could be sure, then yeah, go for the balls man.
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted May 12, 2010 07:08 PM |
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@Keksi: Retribution was never used in this thread for a reason to support it (though I'm sure that factor would convince some people to support it).
@Ihor & Adrius: Yeah, I brought that up in my original post, and that's indeed a big problem you can't ignore when it comes to irreversible castration.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Keksimaton
Promising
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand
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posted May 12, 2010 07:21 PM |
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@Omega:
An emotional rush would cloud my judgement, but that wouldn't change much. Helping my daughter should be a higher priority.
Also, due a rather striking choice of words on your behalf, you make that look like a threat. And cynical gloating.
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Noone shall pass, but no one besides him shall pass.
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Father
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posted May 12, 2010 08:08 PM |
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Omega, I think maybe you presume that my oppinion is one based on theory rather than fact based on experience.
My daughter (biological) I just found out about a year and a half ago was being sexually abused by her step-father. Oh and you can trust, my rage was to the point of boiling and I wanted this man nothing other than dead. As a matter of firm fact, I was dead set (pun not intended) on making sure that is exactly what happend. However, after rational thinking came into play, I began to gain a more firm grasp on the situation. I deal with my anger in more appropriate and assertive ways. Working with my ex-wife and her mother, I was able to relocate the entire family to another state, facilitate their divorce and begin legal proceedings against the step-father.
This is a radical but all too common example of this type of terrible tradjedy. However, it is no reason for us to allow such times to rob us of exactly what seperates us from them. Which is to say, a firmer grip on that humanity that I have been speaking so strongly for. So yes, I stand by my oppinion that such aggressive behaviors and actions are exactly that, aggressive and should not be used. Though I fully understand the knee jerk, or emotional reaction to do just that, when a moments pause is lended to the situation, other solutions, better solutions avail themselves.
Another example; My partner was raped, and that was subsequently how he became infected with HIV. So not just from the aspect of a child, but also from the love of my life, I understand in full respect exactly how these terrible crimes can affect the lives of myself and my loved ones. Even at the age of 15 I myself was abused, in all three of the examples I provided to you I can honestly tell you that none of us wished any lasting harm on the offenders.
The anger passes, the wounds heal and forgiveness takes hold. If you don't have forgiveness and a drive to better not just yourself, but those around you, even those that offend you, then are you truly happy? Personally I couldn't be, not in that case, not ever. Not to say any of you couldn't though, just different strokes for different folks I suppose. Though I shutter at such differences as these.
____________
Once Bitten,
Twice shy,
Be careful,
This one has sharp teeth.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted May 12, 2010 10:37 PM |
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If you think throwing someone in a cell in hopes of them changing will work, you are just kidding yourself. You can forgive the criminal all you want, but it will never change the fact that he or she is a criminal. They won't change and most likely will repeat the crime if given the chance. Rehabilitaion doesn't work. Unless you are rich and famous, society does not forgive your crimes. Employers will not want to hire you. Neighbors won't want you around.
One of my client's huband raped their daughter. What value does a man who rapes his own daughter have to society any more? He's been sentenced to 15 years in prison. When he gets out, he won't be better for it. My client's daughter certainly won't be. What's the point of even attempting rehabilitation in that situation? Why should he get a second chance when his daughter has been irreperaly damaged?
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 12, 2010 10:47 PM |
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Father, when individuals violate other people's rights, they give up their own.
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Eccentric Opinion
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This thread is pages long: 
