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| Thread: Is Sylvan Overpowered? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Warlord
Famous Hero
Lord of Image Spam
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posted July 09, 2010 06:18 PM |
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Is Sylvan Overpowered?
In Tote, Sylvan seems to have become ridcoulously overpowered. They have a perfect array of units. Let's look.
Melee
Sylvan has five melee units, who I'll be discussing here.
Attackers
1) Dryads: High speed, high initiative, no retaliation, spray attack, and the chance to be healed by treants? All for a Tier One? Dryads are an excellent attacking force.
2) Wind Dancers: Still quite fast, still high initiative, and their defense boosts really helps them survive. A great attacker for a Tier Two.
3) Pristine Unicorns: Pretty high speed and initiative, the nice blinding attack, and the Child of Light ability, which is excellent vs. any light magic. Quite a good Tier Five.
4) Emerald Dragon. Fast, but they have not too good of an attack. Lots of luck, however, and a blessing changes everything around, by giving its breath maximum potential, and making it do the most damage it can do. A great unit with just a bit of preparation.
Defenders
1) Ancient Treant: Excellent defense, large HP, and the Entangling ability makes them almost impossible to get past. Their low attack in compensated by the Arcane Archers who the Treants are protecting. All the Treants have to do is Entangle an enemy close to the archers, and let them do the rest. The Treants can also heal the dryads, or be healed by them. All in all, an excellent Tier Six tank.
Ranged
1) Elder Druids: Smashing enemies with lightning bolts is the prime hobby of these guys. However, they can just shoot them as well, or give their mana to their boss for spell casting. Either way, they're a powerful Tier Four unit.
2)Arcane Archers: The ultimate arhcer unit... With no range penalty they smash through everyone even at a distance, and with their Force Arrow they can inflict damage to even the best armored troops. In other words, overpowered.
But even that isn't all! With their Avenger special, their troops can inflict even more damage on a select enemy of choice!
So, I don't see how to stop Sylvan. Sylvan attackers go with lightning speed, striking at the heart of your forces in no time at all, murdering everyone due to their Avenger special. Sylvan's overpowered archers are safely protected behind the rock-hard treants, who are practically impossible to get past.
I think that Sylvan is overpowered. If anyone can explain to me how to stop Sylvan I would be glad. But, until then, I will refrain from fighting Sylvan.
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted July 09, 2010 06:26 PM |
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You can't stop them, I can't stop them, noone can stop them!
We're all going to DIEEEE!!!
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none of my business.
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Oscarius
Famous Hero
*sleepy*
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posted July 09, 2010 06:53 PM |
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Well, first, their so-called "over-powered, untouchable archers" are as flimsy as they get, so if you got ANY archers of your own still alive or some destructive magic, they'll go down fast, even with the ranger's high defense. But I would worry a little more about the units already in your midst...
Also, while luck + avanger is good it'll take some time to get it all rolling, and finding every "good" perfered enemy, what if you face, say fortress and the only thing you find is spearwielders and rune priests. 
When facing sylvan you pretty much have to take the first blow, you'll have to migate that by some smart deployment (don't ask how.  ) or just roll with the blow and strike back as hard as you can. 
I woulnd't call them overpowered, but I've just played a little, and only 2-3 games online. (major whipings all of them .)
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SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
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posted July 09, 2010 07:12 PM |
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the ranger's great stat distribution together with easy chance for enlightenment to makse creeping with regen unihorns really nice ...plus you fogrot to include the high druids
Just get computer to be sylvan, I think I have a good chance there
Better to fight them at lower hero levels so that ranger can't have retribution & max enlightenment & max light & max avenger together with attack artis, max luck from artis/adventure locations...else you might need stormwind plus tactics plus defence artis together with the obligatory defence skill/powa of endurance to at least have some survivors after those sylvan first/second strikes & pray they don't have cleansing or magic immunity when you have dark
oh & ban the use of all sylvan heroes except Dirael, but make sure there's no mentors
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Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus 
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Warlord
Famous Hero
Lord of Image Spam
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posted July 10, 2010 02:33 PM |
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For the second reply, yes, my archers are fragile, but my treeants protect them from the melee side of the army, and my attacking force will take care of the rest.
For the third reply, I think high druids are worse! They have only Endurance in their Spellbook, which is not nearly as useful as Lightning Bolt.
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zaio-baio
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 10, 2010 03:28 PM |
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sylvan is a very good race, but not overpowered - they are relatively strong early mid and lategame - thats their bless and their curse.Sylvan cant match academy/dungeon before lvl 15, or heaven/stronghold after lvl 20.
1st hit isnt enough vs heaven, ill upload some replays later where u will see that charging with 6 att (lvl 19) vs 25 def knight is the worst thing ever.Sylvans chance to get att while lvling up is the same as knights chance to get spellpower, and the knights almost always end up with 2 spellpower ( lvl 19 again).On top of that the knights have 100% chance to get endurance, while sylvan has 50% chance for rigtheous might .....
also when the high druids die - the spellpower bonus vanishes and rain of arrows + 6 lvls in destructive become useless, so destructive sylvan isnt a good option either.
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Warlord
Famous Hero
Lord of Image Spam
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posted July 10, 2010 05:00 PM |
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Can't Sylvan try to tank due to their better archers? And if Paladins+ Archangels come, Treeants Entangle, Arcane Archers, Druids, and Unicorns slaughter them while Emerald Dragons, Dryads, and Wind Dancers annoy the archers.
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Oscarius
Famous Hero
*sleepy*
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posted July 10, 2010 05:48 PM |
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Well, you'll have 1 shot with your arcanes vs. haven and then archers/priest (protected by squires) will shot you, they will have higher attack, equal defense aswell as similar magic (less mana, but same mastery)
Your advantage is the first strike, and in that case it isn't such a good idea to try and "out-tank" the opponent.
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Warlord
Famous Hero
Lord of Image Spam
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posted July 10, 2010 05:53 PM |
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But Dryads, Wind Dancers, and Dragons are preventing them from shooting.
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Oscarius
Famous Hero
*sleepy*
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posted July 10, 2010 05:58 PM |
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Edited by Oscarius at 17:58, 10 Jul 2010.
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Not really, they can block too you know.
Dragons might kill one stack outright, with luck, but to have all the units in contact with them at the same time means that your units have to stand close to eachother in the beginning, and they'll probably be in the corner, making it a bit of a gamble which edge you deploy on.
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Warlord
Famous Hero
Lord of Image Spam
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posted July 10, 2010 06:02 PM |
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Block with who? Also, the Dragons aren't too necessary, the Dryads with Spray attack hurt lots of enemies, and the Wind Dancers are backup. I don't know, though. It's tricky.
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Oscarius
Famous Hero
*sleepy*
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posted July 10, 2010 06:14 PM |
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Something like this *hopes it looks decent*
CSAA
XPAA
C= Conscript
X= Xbowman
P= Priest
A= Any large creature.
Standing in a corner.
Everyone takes half damage from ranged attacks and got "decent" defense, even more so if you compare it to the ranger's attack.
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Yuukimaru
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 10, 2010 06:20 PM |
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No they are not =)
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Warlord
Famous Hero
Lord of Image Spam
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posted July 10, 2010 06:27 PM |
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Quote:
Something like this *hopes it looks decent*
CSAA
XPAA
C= Conscript
X= Xbowman
P= Priest
A= Any large creature.
Standing in a corner.
Everyone takes half damage from ranged attacks and got "decent" defense, even more so if you compare it to the ranger's attack.
First of all, you only have seven spots for your army. Also, the dragons could fly up so they were looking this way <-- and do their breath thing. Instant death. And just to be sure, the Dryads could come from the top and do their spray attack. Bam! Or, if Sylvan could get it, Meteor Shower on that spot. Sylvan could also just sit there because of better archers (yes, I'm talking about Arcane Archers). There are just so many choices!
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted July 10, 2010 06:35 PM |
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Send in the Dryads for unlimited ownage!!
Nuke it with 3sp Meteors! BAM!
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none of my business.
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Oscarius
Famous Hero
*sleepy*
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posted July 10, 2010 06:46 PM |
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Edited by Oscarius at 19:10, 10 Jul 2010.
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Sorry if I was unclear, the 4 "A"'s is ONE creature as a large creature takes up a 2x2 area.
Secondly, while the dragons would "try" to inflict "instant death" they'll be rather few compared to the number of haven creatures (also, haven def > sylvan attack) and if the dryads want to reach first turn they have to start straight infront of the stacks, (having either tactics or +1 speed) and the aren't that impressive...
Lastly (as veco said.) ranger's spellpower is a lousy as it gets, unless you use high druids, and don't shoot.
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zaio-baio
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 10, 2010 07:18 PM |
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here is what im talking about - i play sylvan vs heaven ( i ve expert defence + expert enlightenment + expert luck + expert light + expert attack/retrubution only in the second)
btw -20 (att-def) difference = 50% normal dmg and 25%increse( from retrubution) boost it by 12-13 % up to 62-63% , so retribution isnt that strong with sylvan ( for instance 15 attack heaven vs 5 def inferno - a bit over 30% dmg increase from retribution), in other words the higher the attack-def the more the retribution bonus and sylvan gets almost none att points.
here and here
check the dmg that sylvan and heaven deal to each other - 8 dragons able to kill only 9 imp griffins, or 1-2 pallys ( 25 pallys with luck kill 7 dragons ... just so epic
P.S notice the x-bow power in the first game ( my oponnent trains them instead of pallys)
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 10, 2010 09:20 PM |
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In a real game the dragons could have attacked pallies with luck and avenger for triple damage. That doesn't quite prove anything.
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SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
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posted July 11, 2010 10:00 AM |
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@zaio-baio: Fristly, thanks for using a replay with me in it as an example...I feel honoured
Secondly, I didn't see any sylvan retribution in either replays, plus you didn't have first round strikes with dryads/windies/drags/unihorns anyways However, first replay was a good illustration why sylvan turtling doesn't work in a duel against haven turtle with squires & birds
I'm not saying retribution is always the best path in a real game either, but I was just giving an example of really powerful first strike that one may not be able to recover from
[btw I'm sure you'll get better]
Thirdly, as Elvin said & as much as I would like it to, duel/arena replays don't really reflect a real game...ya gotta look at whole sylvan package & if I had to strike out a faction for an opponent, it would almost always be sylvan first [even in duels too]
@Warlord: ofc, at lower numbers elder druids are good at creeping...later on, I think higher druids really help in regen/res for reducing losses
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus
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zaio-baio
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 11, 2010 04:10 PM |
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"you didn't have first round strikes with dryads/windies/drags/unihorns"
my att was quite poor + your placement was good ( u had some luck )
on topic again
avenger shines in 1vs1 battles , however in 4vs4 ( where you face 3-4 different castles its not that "wtf IMBAAA" , try it out if u want )
it gives the edge when playing on heroic (dwarves/academys racials require resources and training needs gold), but otherwise avenger isnt that good at all
P.S.
Firstly: i may have uploaded the wrong replay , ill check it out later
Secondly: i was simply sharing some thoughts about retribution
Thirdly: "duel/arena replays don't really reflect a real game" i ve never said that they reflect a real game, they just show some aspects of it ( for instance having no pallys in the avenger list  , or unicorns failing to blind pallys and eating a fat reataliation )
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