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| Thread: Area Of Control [H6 official feature] ~ Discussion and feeback thread |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 25, 2010 10:31 PM |
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I like this idea. It's quite nice, and if it turns out I don't like it, I can always turn it off! Does anyone know whether you can place troops inside it, like you could with mines or garrisons in H5?
That would ruin it. Then an enemy hero could possess it, put one skeleton in it and roam away, then you would have to capture it again, that's not what they're aiming for.
I don't get your post at all? It seems to me that the whole purpose of this is exactly that you will be able to leave troups at the control centre to guard your mines, and that Hero will be able to eliminate your army to gain control.
I also get the impression - but I'm not sure if this is just me reading too much into the statement - that control centre can be either a town or something else, which will probably be some sort of fort, similar to Heroes 3 garrisons, where you can leave an army, and probably benefit from some sort of fortification.
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What will happen now?
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Gauldoth_
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 25, 2010 10:38 PM |
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I think that he wrote about putting creatures inside a mine, and not inside the garrison/fort/castle, for me that is wrong because the enemy hero who can take the mine, can put something in it, and then you do not recover the mine even if he leaves from there.
edit: I got the same impression, that it can be something else besides a town, like fort or something.
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lord_crusader
Promising
Supreme Hero
UHU!! supreme!
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posted August 25, 2010 10:44 PM |
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I think it sounds like we will be able to include or not forts for the area of control effects on the map editor... that's all good news... if the feature is somehow broken being able to made maps without it will be cool...
but for the most part I really like this... the hit and run heroes will not be that effective... but you can still send heroes to steal the resources...
on a side note, I think they reduce the numbers of resources to implement this system better balanced
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Dig Out Your Soul
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Lawmaker
Hired Hero
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posted August 25, 2010 11:57 PM |
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I wonder. If we are in the enemy's control area and i start a battle with the enemy(not in the fort or town), it would be nice if the enemy gets some kind of penalty or even curse, Like if i am in necro ground, my living creatures will get their moral decreased or even the cured ground effect. If your close to the garrison, you might get an arrow or what ever, barrage before the battle starts. It will make one think twice before rushing into enemy territory.
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Greenpakto
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 26, 2010 12:01 AM |
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Are we possitive that ALL CONTROLL ponts will be castles, or towns?? They could be some sort of garrison as well, or thats my guess.
But I dont mind whatever they do about those, BECAUSE in map editor its OPTIONAL And I can probably mix those features in one map, adding controll poins linked with mines north, while in west only standalone mines, cause that area fits it better and so on.
This is BRILLIANT!!
Since they made it optional (when making own maps), I have no doubt that they will make EVERYONE like this drasticaly new feature
And I LOVE to make my own maps anyway more options for me
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted August 26, 2010 12:12 AM |
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Why is there suddenly belief that there will be more buildings which will act as control points (forts, towns, garrisons)??? I don't see any reason for so much buildings to do one same thing? There is going to be only town which will act as control point, as far as I know.
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"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya
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Greenpakto
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 26, 2010 12:22 AM |
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Why is there suddenly belief that there will be more buildings which will act as control points (forts, towns, garrisons)??? I don't see any reason for so much buildings to do one same thing? There is going to be only town which will act as control point, as far as I know.
Makes MORE sense if there were Towns which act as a main structure you can build dwellings in and act as controll points, AND ALSO Garrisons (or something else), that acts as a main structure that can ONLY build walls for defensive features, and acts as controll point.
I would NOT like to place 100 towns just so that I can have multiple mines linked to that exact area I want it in...
What if I want 30 controll points, but only 20 towns? No i am not talkning about individaul controll of each mine (as in previous games).
I already know that feature exist (and I love the options they are giving us).
EDIT: AND you mistook us, we used a different name for the same thing. For example "forts, garrisons" are the same thing. just we dont know what it might be called if they have it implemented or if they will in the future 
MAKES No sense that controll ponts can only be towns. I would think they also add an other controll point that CAN NOT build dwellings and such, to work as a substitute (maybe only allow walls to be built, and after being taken by other player, walls will be raised and have to be build again, by new player in controll).
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted August 26, 2010 12:26 AM |
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Quote:
I wonder. If we are in the enemy's control area and i start a battle with the enemy(not in the fort or town), it would be nice if the enemy gets some kind of penalty or even curse, Like if i am in necro ground, my living creatures will get their moral decreased or even the cured ground effect. If your close to the garrison, you might get an arrow or what ever, barrage before the battle starts. It will make one think twice before rushing into enemy territory.
If you read what Arturchix wrote about them, he said :
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Controlling (owning) an Area has specific benefits:
1. Heroes of the owner spend less movement points when moving in the Area.
2. Some faction unique buildings will have effect in the Town’s Area.
So I can imagine that the Haven troops fighting in a zone they control could have some morale bonus. People fighting in a Necropolis area could have a morale penalty, etc...
Quote:
Why is there suddenly belief that there will be more buildings which will act as control points (forts, towns, garrisons)??? I don't see any reason for so much buildings to do one same thing? There is going to be only town which will act as control point, as far as I know.
In this interview : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36JyBgtxwso , Erwan Le Breton says that Control Points will be Towns or Forts.
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted August 26, 2010 12:36 AM |
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I know Erwan said that towns will be control points. I was a little confused because every one was mentioning other buildings as a new control points. That is the reason why I asked that question. Now it's OK, everything is cleared. 
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"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya
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serptico
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 26, 2010 12:54 AM |
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Edited by serptico at 00:56, 26 Aug 2010.
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I have another question?
This might be an idea for black hole too ...
Lets say you have more than 1 town area controlling specific group of mines. Does this mean that every town is responsible for its own resources in order to build their structures/army/hero?
To clarify this, are we going to trade resources between castles in addition to the usual resource ---> resource trade?
Or, in other words, every one of your Castles will have their mini economy?
I think that this will further the depth in strategy, and it will be more costly to lose your Castles. Especially if your Castles area controlled one type of resource.
Ideas?
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lucky_dwarf
Promising
Supreme Hero
Visiting
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posted August 26, 2010 01:03 AM |
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that would be interesting to say the least.
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So much has changed in my absence.
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vicheron
Known Hero
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posted August 26, 2010 01:56 AM |
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Civilizations, Disciples, Kohan, and Rise of Nations/Legends all have this concept.
They have features that let you expand your area of control. In Disciples, there's a rod planter hero that can plant a rod and covert neutral/enemy territory into friendly territory. In Kohan and Rise of Nations/Legends, there are town buildings/levels that increase your area of control. There's also research in Rise of Nations/Legends that lets you increase your area of control.
They also have other things like bonuses for being in friendly territory and penalties for being in enemy territory. Rise of Nations/Legends also had research that increases bonuses for being in friendly territory and decrease penalties for being in enemy territory.
They could obviously add various benefits to the territory system. For example, Necromancers get a bonus to the number of troops they can raise from creatures killed on their territory, Haven decreases the hostility of creatures in their territory so they're more likely to flee or join, and Inferno weakens creatures in their territory so they're easier to kill.
As for specific building related to the area of control, they could bring back the Shroud of Darkness for Necropolis except it covers the all the area of control around the town, they could bring back Brimstone Stormclouds for Inferno and have it increase the spell power of all friendly heroes in the area of control around the town, for Haven they could have something like a road system that increases the speed of heroes and caravans in their territory.
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lord_crusader
Promising
Supreme Hero
UHU!! supreme!
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posted August 26, 2010 02:21 AM |
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Quote:
Why is there suddenly belief that there will be more buildings which will act as control points (forts, towns, garrisons)??? I don't see any reason for so much buildings to do one same thing? There is going to be only town which will act as control point, as far as I know.
the quote from the devs said that the area of control points can be towns or forts
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Dig Out Your Soul
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serptico
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 26, 2010 02:34 AM |
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Edited by serptico at 03:23, 26 Aug 2010.
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Quote:
Quote:
Why is there suddenly belief that there will be more buildings which will act as control points (forts, towns, garrisons)??? I don't see any reason for so much buildings to do one same thing? There is going to be only town which will act as control point, as far as I know.
the quote from the devs said that the area of control points can be towns or forts
Maybe the natural upgrade follows (towns --> forts --> castles) for all we know in H6.
Garrisons should remain at choke points where you can drop units, but nothing to do with area of effect ability.
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lord_crusader
Promising
Supreme Hero
UHU!! supreme!
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posted August 26, 2010 03:38 AM |
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to be honest I think they talk about towns and forts like different kind of objects in the map but we will see
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Dig Out Your Soul
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Minotaur_Man
Hired Hero
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posted August 26, 2010 04:07 AM |
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to be honest I think they talk about towns and forts like different kind of objects in the map but we will see
Maybe they are referring to hill forts, the map location where you can buy upgrades for all of your units very cheaply.
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Greenpakto
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 26, 2010 04:33 AM |
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to be honest I think they talk about towns and forts like different kind of objects in the map but we will see
Maybe they are referring to hill forts, the map location where you can buy upgrades for all of your units very cheaply.
I explained above what their most likely plans are (MY PERSONAL GUESS)...
If I want 10 control points on my customized made map, but I only want 7 towns that can build dwellings and special buildings and such, what il do instead is, place a "fort" (lets say that the word for that structure), that ACTS the same as a town (as a controll point). But you wont be able to build dwellings or special structures inside of it. But maybe only walls, so that it can be defended from other players.
It could be made such way to avoid abundance of towns that might or probably will, speed the game up to quickly (more units and such).
I for one would not want to place more than maybe 14-18 towns at TOP. but I might want to have more control points than that (more resources/mines and more external dwellings).
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serptico
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 26, 2010 04:44 AM |
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Edited by serptico at 04:54, 26 Aug 2010.
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Quote:
Quote:
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to be honest I think they talk about towns and forts like different kind of objects in the map but we will see
Maybe they are referring to hill forts, the map location where you can buy upgrades for all of your units very cheaply.
I explained above what their most likely plans are (MY PERSONAL GUESS)...
If I want 10 control points on my customized made map, but I only want 7 towns that can build dwellings and special buildings and such, what il do instead is, place a "fort" (lets say that the word for that structure), that ACTS the same as a town (as a controll point). But you wont be able to build dwellings or special structures inside of it. But maybe only walls, so that it can be defended from other players.
It could be made such way to avoid abundance of towns that might or probably will, speed the game up to quickly (more units and such).
I for one would not want to place more than maybe 14-18 towns at TOP. but I might want to have more control points than that (more resources/mines and more external dwellings).
Personally, I like my maps to be random, not knowing where the area of control points are and such etc ... that's why im hoping for an intelligent random map generator for H6.
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PhoenixFlare
Hired Hero
Rebirth
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posted August 26, 2010 06:45 AM |
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Personally, I like this feature a lot as it reduces most of the hassle of recapturing mines with secondary heroes which, like me, serve mostly as scouts/explorers/resource-gatherers/(*cough*cannon fodders*cough*) anyway, especially in campaigns. This will allow more flexibility in resource control and progression in the (extra) huge maps that the developers promised.
It would also be interesting that these control points, which have access to certain Dwellings, be able to recruit directly from those under their control (as in, not the +1 to weekly growth for the entire kingdom, but the entire weekly growth of the Dwelling specifically for the control point) so that the secondary hero(es) set to protect them can be reinforced. [I assume that the player will be able to set defenders to these points, seeing as how important they are.] Alternatively, from these points, the Player is be able to set the Dwelling's growth to the capital, thus reducing the need for the caravan-like building. For those not under the Player's control or without an Area, they simply recruit directly from the Dwelling they go to.
Expanding Area of Control seems counterintuitive - firstly, as Elvin mentioned, it's clearly stated that the editor will show a highest priority error if two or more Areas overlap and the map will not be playable. Second, taking a book out of Disciples back when they have rod-planters, it was not quite an easy process when two different factions have expanding controls - to actually be able to have the resources under your control (instead of it changing ownership every other turn -- thereby making the resource completely unproductive), you need to (1) plant more rods at the same location to maximize area expansion; and/or (2) destroy the enemy's rods/cities/capitals. I think this is an unnecessary focus for the game, so having a set radius of control would be sufficient.
Making radius of control increase for the Capital, however, is possibly feasible, since Capitals (i.e. starting city) will be far enough from one another, and I suppose realistically scaling from Town Halls to Capitols should have a rather complex trade and commerce going on with different resources. Priority of control can be given to these Capitals since control points are merely territorial expansion of the same kingdom. [At this point, I'm assuming that these control points are similar to what nodes are in Disciples. For Towns, it will be slightly more complicated, since in the previous games, they can be upgraded extensively, even though Capitols are still limited to one city only.]
The option of having non-Area-controlled resources (in the map) makes this process more amenable for those who prefer the old system, but I strongly think they should proceed with the idea.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 26, 2010 07:49 AM |
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I think it makes best sense in terms of map construction options, if there are two types of control points: Towns and "non-towns" (Garrison/Ford/whatever).
I had one concern about the fairness of this mechanism, which is as follows: Imagine there is an area with a mine set (Wood, Ore, Gold, ressource), and maybe I flag three of them, but leave the Gold mine because it has a nasty guard. Then I take the Control Point and leave the area.
Now later, an enemy Hero comes along. He won't attack the Control Point, but flags the Gold mine. Now, as I understand it, the Gold mine reverts to my control, even though I never had it before. That seems kind of unfair to me.
Maybe it would be so that the mine started out inside the AOC of a Control Point, but that it *needs* to be linked to the Control Point (happens when both are owned by the same person). Thus, even if I take the Control Point and some mines (thereby linking them), the remaining mines are FFA until I have had control over them (or alternatively, someone else take them AND take the Control Point).
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What will happen now?
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