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| Thread: Area Of Control [H6 official feature] ~ Discussion and feeback thread |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted August 26, 2010 08:11 AM |
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^I think Alci got the point here. Objects shouldn't be assigned to point owner by deafult.
However, it makes sense in duel and epic scenario maps, when we don't care / don't expect anyone else to invade our premises at random, unlike in FFA multiplayer maps.
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted August 26, 2010 08:29 AM |
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Posted the same idea here. Hope it's just like in Stronghold: Legends. 
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Leisses
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 26, 2010 04:16 PM |
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My impressions...
The area of control will increase it will like someone said, accordingo to town level. And at map editor it will consider the maximun range possible of area of control from a town.
Since it seems there are twons AND forts (different buildings) I think there will not exists "mini-economies".
Campaigns maps will have some mines out of areas of control, and it's even possible a map without any area of control.
About what Alc said I think it's not unfair. If it's possible for the other guy to know that the Gold Mine will be given to the AoC when he leaves he will probably not take it. And the AoC has that mine in it's control (dahhh) but can't get the resources from it only because it has guards, being it an enemy player/NPC or just neutrals.
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Greenpakto
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 26, 2010 05:05 PM |
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Quote:
I think there will not exists "mini-economies".
I find that good in such case, cause its not really needed. heroes of might and magic series were never based on conecting towns with other towns, since the maps are usually quite large, and lets not forget, its turnbased so no need for it 
Thats my humble opinion.
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Kenishi
Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
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posted August 26, 2010 05:24 PM |
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Edited by Kenishi at 17:25, 26 Aug 2010.
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I totally agree with Lawmaker, Vicheron and further expanded by PhoenixFlare and also lucky_dwarf, with the difference that the conversion would by instantaneous and would cover the area effect , as such you would now the limits of your territory.
On the topic that Alcibiades rose
“I think it makes best sense in terms of map construction options, if there are two types of control points: Towns and "non-towns" (Garrison/Ford/whatever).
I had one concern about the fairness of this mechanism, which is as follows: Imagine there is an area with a mine set (Wood, Ore, Gold, ressource), and maybe I flag three of them, but leave the Gold mine because it has a nasty guard. Then I take the Control Point and leave the area.Now later, an enemy Hero comes along. He won't attack the Control Point, but flags the Gold mine. Now, as I understand it, the Gold mine reverts to my control, even though I never had it before.
That seems kind of unfair to me.Maybe it would be so that the mine started out inside the AOC of a Control Point, but that it *needs* to be linked to the Control Point (happens when both are owned by the same person). Thus, even if I take the Control Point and some mines (thereby linking them), the remaining mines are FFA until I have had control over them (or alternatively, someone else take them AND take the Control Point).”
My best guess would be that even if the mine is on your territory if you haven`t flagged it once it would not change to your property. This is something to be taken in consideration by the developers ….
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 26, 2010 05:44 PM |
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A good compromise Kenishi, although I'd personally rather drop the whole idea of the AoC as it affects mines, and make it so that you can fortify the mines, so that the enemy would have to really struggle to take it.
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Gauldoth_
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 26, 2010 06:57 PM |
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I like the idea that garrisons have a fixed area of control and maybe to allow your primary city (perhaps one more) to have an expandable area of control.
As I understood, if you want that one city benefits from the resources of another there has to be some kind of trade between them. For me a logical choice would be a caravan, but this can make problems. These caravans could become too precious for a Heroes game, and you would have to give them more attention then they actually deserve.
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PhoenixFlare
Hired Hero
Rebirth
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posted August 28, 2010 11:06 AM |
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Quote:
My best guess would be that even if the mine is on your territory if you haven`t flagged it once it would not change to your property. This is something to be taken in consideration by the developers ….
I was thinking along the same line that the Player needs to have at least flagged it once for the control to revert to you if the mine was previously neutral (some sort of boolean, I suppose?). It does seem to defeat the purpose of the Area of Control somewhat, though this is the best compromise so far for ease of progress versus fairness.
Quote:
A good compromise Kenishi, although I'd personally rather drop the whole idea of the AoC as it affects mines, and make it so that you can fortify the mines, so that the enemy would have to really struggle to take it.
Fortification of the mines is a good idea, but you'll have to take into account how you'd be able to distribute your troops between guarding resources and taking them to battle. Given that the maps will be huge and probably plenty of mines around, separating your troop for each individual mine you want to have will be quite a tedious task.
I was under the impression that you can put troops into these control points, and enemies wanting to take the mines within these points will have to battle them -- so to simplify the process, you take over the points and the mines become yours.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 28, 2010 11:15 AM |
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Yeah, except that you get any owned mines in the area, including the ones the enemy claims, and the mines automatically revert to you by the next turn unless the enemy has a hero sitting on them, which I don't like, and which is why I brought up the idea of fortified mines in the first place.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 28, 2010 12:14 PM |
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Fortified mines doesn't really work, because if you have to leave forces on each and every mine, you'll stretch your army so thin that the enemy will have no problems defeating it. I think the central control point works well, because it's actually a compromise that makes it viable to leave an army that will offer a real challenge and at the same time not deplete your main army completely.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 28, 2010 12:21 PM |
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Leaving troops in and fortifying mines would of course be a possibility, not a necessity. I only added the fortification idea to make leaving troops an actual viable option rather than just 'weakening your army for nothing' option.
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Gauldoth_
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 28, 2010 02:02 PM |
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Quote:
I was under the impression that you can put troops into these control points, and enemies wanting to take the mines within these points will have to battle them
Yes, but if you just want to take one mine for just a couple of days you can leave your hero to dwell in/on/by that particular mine without having to fight the control point army.
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Kenishi
Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
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posted August 30, 2010 03:50 PM |
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MattII , so your suggesting something similar to , Disciples 3 Guardian like unit which guards the mine , and instead of XP based growth you would have numbers growth, intriguing …
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted August 30, 2010 04:21 PM |
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So it is basically transforming found in the Disciples series?
Innovative.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 30, 2010 04:38 PM |
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Well the whole idea was that you could garrison troops in the mine to keep the enemy from taking/retaking it, but since any attack would probably more powerful (with the hero boosting their stats), I also wanted to be able to build fortifications around the mine (like a fort with a few towers) to semi cancel out the difference in power. As for it being from Disciples, I've never actually played that game, so I have no idea what it's like.
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PhoenixFlare
Hired Hero
Rebirth
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posted August 31, 2010 05:33 AM |
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Quote:
Well the whole idea was that you could garrison troops in the mine to keep the enemy from taking/retaking it, but since any attack would probably more powerful (with the hero boosting their stats), I also wanted to be able to build fortifications around the mine (like a fort with a few towers) to semi cancel out the difference in power. As for it being from Disciples, I've never actually played that game, so I have no idea what it's like.
In Disciples (the third in the series at least), you have a Control Node where a Hero you control can capture, which will spawn an immovable, uncontrollable (except during battle) Guardian-type unit to protect it and leaving your Hero able to move around the map doing something else. Every turn, the area under your control (signified by different terrain landscape for different factions) expands from your Capital city as well as these Nodes. If a resource is within this changed area, it becomes yours.
Every day (note that in Disciples III, each turn changes the cycle - day, evening, night, repeat), the Guardian unit will gain experience and become more powerful and get more abilities. They do possess an attack that damages all enemy units at once (;P). The enemy can basically attack these Nodes, defeat the Guardian, and expand their own control (note that the areas previously under your control do not immediately revert to theirs, so they still need to spend certain turns to convert the area).
But, in any case, I do agree that some sort of fortification (for the control points, not individual mines) would seem appropriate to counterbalance the weakness from having no Hero to lead the army guarding the mines. If it doesn't seem too implausible, perhaps it may be possible to actually recruit secondary Heroes/Captains to guard the control points, and each turn, they gain a small amount of experience so that they aren't too weak against the enemy's main invading force? I'm not sure how it's going to be possible to actually reinforce their troops, though.
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Gauldoth_
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 31, 2010 05:43 PM |
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How to guard these control points has to be very well thought through. Someone sad it would be useful to have a decent secondary hero in the control point that is about to be attacked if your main hero is a week away, but i believe that almost everyone would walk away from that fight and join those two armies in a few days.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 11, 2010 06:07 PM |
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As the feedback has died down in intensity, I'd like you to post new information in the News and Announcements thread. Discussion of old information should take place in the Discussion thread. Next time we have major news updates, I can open a new discussion and feedback thread.
~ Thread temporarily closed ~
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