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| Thread: Short thread: New Gryphon |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted October 16, 2010 10:58 PM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 23:01, 16 Oct 2010.
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I'd say more then enough units in previous installments looked "flashy".
Not just the Paladin/Crusaders in HoMM 1, 2 AND 3 (in 3 the tier 4 upgrade)
But several other units like the Titan and also the Arch-Angel. (more specifically it's sword)
The Horned Demon from HoMMIII as well.
The Cyclops King, the Minotaur King, the Silver Pegasi.
Plenty more impractical armor choices beyond those.
My theory (just a theory) is that people are still a little shell-shocked by HoMMV's art style, which is understandable.
Regardless, so far the majority of the voters don't mind or even like the new gryphon's art, so at least as far as this (HIGHLY limited) poll shows, they are at least taking steps in the right direction from the previous title.
But my point is:
It's a matter of personal taste.
I'm fine with how the old units in 1, 2 and 3 looked and to be honest I think, that is to say: in my opinion, HoMMVI is a lot closer to the old art styles then to HoMMV.
Edit: Incase this really is the final art, and they are not changing it, I sincerely hope for you that they either will grow on you or that somebody brings out a mod to fix this graphical issue.
Presuming they are, as they said going to make it very mod friendly, this should hopefully not take to long, and people can re-skin units as they see fit to make it look like the style they wanted it to be.
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odium
Known Hero
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posted October 17, 2010 06:17 AM |
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You should also take into account the fact that at least some people that voted for "it's ok" also expressed a form of negative opinion with respect to the helm. To be honest, I don't think many of the people that voted positively for the current concept art would be disappointed if the Imperial Griffin losses its helm or is replaced by a version which is less exaggerated.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted October 17, 2010 09:10 AM |
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Well, actually I did take that into account, but it means it's not the massive drama some people are making it out to be in this thread.
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blizz
Known Hero
of temper grace
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posted October 17, 2010 12:07 PM |
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I think this is the best Gryphon design ever in heroes games. Maybe they could add some white feathers.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted October 17, 2010 03:18 PM |
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Quote:
My theory (just a theory) is that people are still a little shell-shocked by HoMMV's art style, which is understandable.
Doubtfully so. The problem is not that the style is new, which normally is a disguised way to say that whoever hates it is conservatite and doesn't like new things in general, but that it does not fit certain people's palate (including mine to certain extent). The market is flooded with games, movies, video clips and so on entertainment products where many things are ridiculously exaggerated. This is getting annoying. The Heroes games are placed in fantasy worlds (or, to be precies - HoMM I - IV are placed in semi-fantasy, semi-sci-fi worlds and HoMM V and MMH VI are pure fantasy), but you can't just sever the ties to between the imagination and the reality because the final product will just look weird, to say the least. If you are depicting a medieval feudal society with its religious zealots, inquisitors, few rich and many poor, you can't afford to have too many shiny things. One can't just switch off his brain and not notice that the weapons and armors of units that are supposed to be trained and equipped in thousands look like they've been forged, engraved, polished and adorned for months each. This is creating a big gap between what you want to represent and what you actually end up with. The gap is called mediocrity.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted October 17, 2010 03:29 PM |
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Well, the only thing I can say to that, is:
Imagine the unit that represents the stack is the stack's "champion" shall we say.
The biggest, baddest dude in the entire regiment.
I mean it's not a perfect solution, but seeing as we have an entire army already being represented by a mere seven characters, it's not much of a stretch.
Nobody said every single member of a stack looks perfectly identical.
But as I said, it sucks that they cannot please everybody, it's unfortunate and I do understand how frustrating it is to see something and keep getting that nagging thought in the back of your head.
"It should have looked more like X"
It's REALLY annoying, like the HoMMV Gargoyle, with it's silly look and painfully slow movement animation, as well as being a pretty rubbish unit overall.
I sincerely hope the skinning community will rise to the occasion and bring out skins for everyone to enjoy the game the way they want it to look.
I'm thinking of testing out my brand new tablet myself on creating some skins for HoMMV as a warm-up.
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Typhus-Null
Tavern Dweller
Typhus Reborn
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posted October 17, 2010 04:18 PM |
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The helmet may look somewhat... over the top, but it's still a hundred times better then in H5. So it gets a vote of approval from me 
Of course as people have pointed out, Gameplay images and concept art do not = the same thing in any regard.
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For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible. -Stuart Chase
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted October 17, 2010 04:23 PM |
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Quote:
One can't just switch off his brain
Actually people turn to HOMM and other games because they want to do just that. If you take armor in HOMM and whatever else too seriously, then it would be a sign that it doesn't manage to entertain you enough, otherwise you wouldn't be concerned about "connections to reality".
On topic, Griffin was never my fav unit in Heroes, it's kinda overused at this point, but I think this design looks good and definitely better than H4-5 Griffins.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted October 17, 2010 05:46 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 17:46, 17 Oct 2010.
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Quote:
Actually people turn to HOMM and other games because they want to do just that.
No, they don't. They play games to entertain themselves, not to escape from reality. Entertainment is a reality. The thing is that different people have different understanding of the concept of entertainment and as you correctly pointed out (although meaning something else), I don't quite enjoy games with pompous art style. I really can't find a creature in HoMM I-IV that I honestly dislike, just some that I don't care about and some that I like. The fact that I find a lot of bad looking creatures in HoMM V and an extension of this trend in MMH VI speaks for itself.
@Mr. Dragon, I've tried to fool myself this way, but it's quite a cheap method and fails when you start splitting the stack just to see for certain that the creatures composing it are the same.
On a side note, the Griffin/Imperial Griffin looks not-that-bad compared to the one from HoMM V. I even don't care about the helmet, even though the creature will look quite "upgraded" even without it.
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted October 17, 2010 07:44 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Actually people turn to HOMM and other games because they want to do just that.
No, they don't. They play games to entertain themselves, not to escape from reality. Entertainment is a reality.
Escapism is a main factor in entertainment, not to mention HOMM barely has any aspects that are reflected in real life (like you said, it's fantasy). So I still say it kills the purpose of the whole thing if you get hung up on stuff like that and while it's one thing to dislike the art style, your argument about why it doesn't make sense for a medieval-esque faction to have so much shiny stuff is not any different than saying "it's ridiculous that my hero never gets off his horse and goes to the bathroom inbetween turns" and that's just one extreme example. Gameplay defeats reality aspects and the extravagant art style is meant as a feast for the eyes (as opposed to hordes of regular-looking units), which, as you said, will boil down to taste.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted October 17, 2010 08:22 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 20:24, 17 Oct 2010.
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All this depends. Whether entertainment equals or is mainly composed of escaping from the reality depends on what do you perceive as reality. But let's not bog down in philosphy, that's not the point. As I said, different people need different stimuluses to entertain themselves, i.e. this is not some law that can be applied to everyone so you can say "You can entertain yourself" and "You can't (entertain yourself)". The only possible valid thing will be something like "You can/can't entertain yourself in the way I do". That's it. So, I don't find needless and absurdous details like armor decorations entertaining, but exactly the opposite. In short, it's a taste thing. Unlike "why the hero doesn't do this and that between the turns", which could be easily replaced with imagination. The game doesn't tell you that the hero isn't sleeping between the turns for instance, but it surely does tell you that your regular front line infantry wears fancy metal clothes.
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted October 17, 2010 08:27 PM |
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I think the standard Griffin looks excellent but the upgrade is poor and overly close to H5. Surely there are more inventive ideas for increasing the aesthetic power of a unit than saying "let's add armour". Especially when it's a bird we're talking about.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted October 17, 2010 08:45 PM |
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Quote:
In short, it's a taste thing. Unlike "why the hero doesn't do this and that between the turns", which could be easily replaced with imagination. The game doesn't tell you that the hero isn't sleeping between the turns for instance, but it surely does tell you that your regular front line infantry wears fancy metal clothes.
OK I'll play along.  You say the game tells you the regular infantry wears fancy clothes that "normally" takes a lot of time to produce. Now, the game also tells you new units appear in your dwellings like a clockwork, so if you can accept that Griffins or Dragons hatch and grow in a single week, it really is not a stretch to imagine that every human unit gets the exact same shiny outfit in every single week and that the kingdom spends most of its budget on that.
Would it be a taste thing to say "I want to see my Dragon grow up while he's with the army, because I don't believe a Dragon grows enormous in seven days"? You are supposed to give a free pass to things that defy logic/reality, because it is just a game and all of this nitpicking is irrelevant to gameplay. It just doesn't make sense to be arbitrary about this.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted October 17, 2010 09:44 PM |
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Erm... I've had similar discussion recently and it reached a (nearly) dead end after 2 or 3 pages of more or less off-topic. No need to replicate the same thing here. I think an entire new topic will be needed for this kind of subject. I might as well start one soon...
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Vadagar
Hired Hero
Master of knowledge
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posted October 18, 2010 07:55 PM |
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That is some great art Vadagar.
ty man I'm sketching a titan art now, but should I post it in this thread or make a new post for it ???
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