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| Thread: Cheating |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV |
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 21, 2010 09:44 AM |
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Quote:
But to be completely honest: If you are learning something you do not need to know later on by root, then the education instance is doing something very wrong. Even worse example: Studing before a test to throw as much mumbo jumbo into the brains temporal storage, nailing the test, but forgetting everthing roughly seconds after the test is over.
In the end, I don't think it matters if people actually cheat on something like that, they would in essence fail it anyhow if it was a surprise test.
Quote:
I am not defending cheating, but at the end of the day in a lot of cases, it would not matter if they cheated or failed at education(must not be confused with actually failing at enough courses and then fail education).
As for a exam, a exam is suppose to be something where the students show of their capabilities, and work hard. The entire idea behind a exam is ridiculed by cheating, so its a.... more despicable yet fun issue.
To me "working hard" belongs to industrial era. And it should not be considered anything good in modern times 
For education, you first and foremost need to taught WHERE to look for knowledge. All in all, even in my current job, nobody KNOWS all those things. When we need something, guess what! we go to a ISO standards' library and check them  Isn't that how it should be?
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted November 21, 2010 12:38 PM |
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I guess we got a different defintion of what "working hard" means.
I would assume yours is working 110%, and doing a bit more than required, really showing of working moral. I agree that does not have so much of a place in the modern society, mainly because if everyone does their job, the have done the amount of production needed to be done.
I think of working hard as doing the job properly when doing it, as if you are doing X and are suppose to be done by Y but in worst case scenario you got Z extra amount of time to do it. Unless something completely unforseen and timeconsuming happens, doing proper work means doing it properly and finishing by Y.
And yes, that is how it should be. Otherwise, what would be the point of having a library?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 21, 2010 01:29 PM |
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Reading the original post, I don't think that cheating is the problem here, but the attitude shown when caught or in the face of the possibility of getting caught.
If you break the rules, it's never any good to look for excuses. "Everyone does it" sucks as a point, because not everyone is caught, and if INDEED everyone does it, but only YOU get caught, YOU obviously failed not only the test, but the cheating test as well.
In fact, we know a couple of teachers, and THEY say, they don't mind the cheating attempt, if intelligently done and planned and so on, but today the problem would more be that some kids would DISDAINFULLY cheat, that is, make no move to cover it, expressing a we-don't-care-at-all attitude.
Internet and wireless communication technology makes written tests a bit pointless. Oral exams make a lot more sense.
In the end, making cheating too easy invites to cheat, while making cheating difficult means that successful cheating is an accomplishment on its own.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted January 28, 2017 02:33 PM |
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I am not one to revive old threads, but there is something that occurred recently.
Anyway, I have not cheated ever. There was this one time before philosophy history test where I have written nearly the entire column of 19th and 20th philosophers. However, on the week that I was supposed to come, I didn't actually arrive (due to some obligations, so to speak). The next week after, I spoke with the teacher and answered some of his questions and gave me a B. I didn't actually quite understood philosophy back then, and I was young and needed the grades for university. Well, I guess they only thing I did cheat in was copying homework, but even then it was because I forgot (thankfully, there is nothing of that on colleage in here).
But that's not what I am here about. The real thing is what happened a few weeks back. With the new government that has been established about three months ago, it has been recently discovered that the minister of education has plagiarised a part of an article (pretty certain it was from Wikipedia). A lot of scientists were riled up and pointed out, some political parties even demanded he was to be fired.
But here's where things get even more interesting. This minister was a teacher on collage in another city. A lot of students have even made a petition that he is actually an okay guy and didn't need to be fired. But, apparently, they spread this petition through e-mails, though the way they got the other e-mails is shady, or so I read.
In the end, the prime minister declared there was no penalty towards the minister of education. Apparently, the guy just "fixed a reference" (which is highly doubtful).
The point of all this has made me question whether I shouldn't cheat. I know cheating is still bad, but if someone like that fool of minister of education can get such a job, then why doesn't everyone start cheating and have great, well-paid jobs?
And, as the last part, there was also a poll among schools. Apparently, it is a *shock* (not to me, at least) how children think to go to university you just need connections (aka you need to know people to enter), they cheat on tests by copying from a piece of paper or similar things.
It's just not fair to be fair.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted January 28, 2017 03:09 PM |
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Edited by artu at 16:16, 28 Jan 2017.
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If I remember correctly, I only cheated once in elementary school or early high school, it felt, well, not morally wrong in a didactic sense but emotionally disturbing. So, I never it did again.
I was never a hard worker in school either, I was more interested in my parents' library than I was in school curriculum which was filled with overwhelmingly ideological state crap, boring and superficial. I could do well enough to pass the class and I absolutely had zero care if my grades weren't perfect. I was very much into music which was in English, my school educated in English, my English was much better than most of the students, so that helped a lot, since teachers never thought I was avoiding interest.
My only regret is, my reaction to how the social topics or liberal arts such as history, philosophy, literature was handled, led me to have an attitude and scorn when it comes to schooling in general, so I also didn't take math seriously. Naturally, I suck at it big time now.
In general, I think cheating a few times in late high school period can be accepted if you reached a point where you know you are going to be, say, an art major and wont be needing X level of physics to be a good one but you still need the score to graduate and move on. If you cheat on what you are going to be pro-active about though, that's not just morally wrong but idiotically self-diminishing.
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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted February 01, 2017 04:04 PM |
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College is a joke, its jumping through hoops and memorization and regurgitation of mainly useless information. Unless you are going to be a doctor or an attorney (which requires memorizing laws and bi-laws) then the majority of it pointless.
It's all cheating really, the system is cheating you out of hard earned money, you are constantly cheating the system with access to millions of other peoples ideas online (copy and paste yo)!
So you bullsnow your way through college with mass debt to end up working two jobs that don't pertain to your degree. The problem is that the institution of college is in the pocket books of the politicians who control corporate America. So no one will hire you without some BS paper because they are all in the circle jerk together.
So cheat away all you want to, if you have to bend over and take it dry from the system then learn to play the game and cheat that system. You will actually learn more about life doing that then rotting in debt at a 4 year college.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 01, 2017 04:59 PM |
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i recommend vf's post for a qp. very good advice that covers the vast majority that go to college.
this is why the college i picked, is going to be paid for entirely by the g.i. bill. nothing is going to come out of pocket from me, that isn't going to be reimbursed by the g.i. bill. i'll be going to college entirely for free. and when i get out, the only thing i'll be qualified for, will be what i went in for.
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violent_flower
Promising
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Almost there.
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posted February 01, 2017 05:19 PM |
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fred79]i recommend vf's post for a qp. very good advice that covers the vast majority that go to college. said:
That is awesome and I wish you all the luck!
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Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted February 03, 2017 12:53 AM |
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violent_flower said:
So cheat away all you want to, if you have to bend over and take it dry from the system then learn to play the game and cheat that system. You will actually learn more about life doing that then rotting in debt at a 4 year college.
Thing is, I don't have any debts. The only thing that has to be paid are the lunch and the fee for advancing to next semester, and, if someone is from a far-away town, they need an accommodation, too.
I don't know how it is in America, but I do know a lot of people that study take a huge loan they have to pay for the rest of their life.
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violent_flower
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Almost there.
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posted February 07, 2017 07:47 PM |
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Thing is, I don't have any debts. The only thing that has to be paid are the lunch and the fee for advancing to next semester, and, if someone is from a far-away town, they need an accommodation, too.
I don't know how it is in America, but I do know a lot of people that study take a huge loan they have to pay for the rest of their life.
It is very different here, we take loans out for sometimes 200,000 to finish up grad school. You pay for housing,food,books etc. My daughter in law pays 720.00 a month just in student loans.
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Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!
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Kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted February 07, 2017 09:55 PM |
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cheating is the sad result of laziness and morally corrput mind.
I have a 8,5 grade point average, aced almost all of my autumn semester exams, and I'm the dipcrap who spends the lectures doodling, checking facebook and engaging the professors in discussions about trivial things on the subject they teach.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 08, 2017 07:16 AM |
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i never cheated, because i never had to(i can guess my way through any test, except anything having to do with math). another reason, is because i'm too lazy to actually put in the work required to cheat. i never even studied, ffs.
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Elvin
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Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 08, 2017 07:42 AM |
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violent_flower said:
College is a joke, its jumping through hoops and memorization and regurgitation of mainly useless information. Unless you are going to be a doctor or an attorney (which requires memorizing laws and bi-laws) then the majority of it pointless.
It's all cheating really, the system is cheating you out of hard earned money, you are constantly cheating the system with access to millions of other peoples ideas online (copy and paste yo)!
Rings painfully true. A lot of the subjects we had were almost entirely useless and/or inconsequential and were mostly memorization. I still read them to get an idea but if I had to read two books and the professor wants to examine us in 2(!) questions out of the whole thing with the intention to not pass us if we answer one perfectly but not knowing the other.. Hell yes I'd cheat. That's the professor screwing you over for kicks. (Should be noted that in that one they changed my position twice and I knew both questions in that row ^^) Though I never cheated in a subject that I found actually useful nor did I copy-paste an assignment. I put time in all of them.
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OhforfSake
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Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted February 08, 2017 08:43 AM |
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I am certain there is a lot of merit to the angle of usefulness, but for me it was always knowledge for the sake of knowledge.
Sometimes I just love knowing irrelevant stuff that if I think about won't serve me any good, I guess I'm spoiled when my life allows me to do that.
I never liked the school curriculum before after I had finished school and it therefore wasn't mandatory to learn anymore though, but I think that is to do with me performing very badly emotionally if I feel I'm forced to do something.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 08, 2017 12:19 PM |
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EnergyZ said:
The point of all this has made me question whether I shouldn't cheat. I know cheating is still bad, but if someone like that fool of minister of education can get such a job, then why doesn't everyone start cheating and have great, well-paid jobs?
High-ranking or rich people can also get away with murder. Does that give you ideas too? 
Checked back on the first pages of the thread and I smiled. I had forgotten how crappy my uni was or joonas' replies to doomforge. Ah fun times 
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted February 09, 2017 10:20 PM |
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This country of mine is going to collapse if it hasn't already.
Anyway, this minister of education, as said, has plagiarised a part of the content from Wikipedia. I've been told that in normal cases he would get fired, but not in here. Actually, there are some people that are even defending him because of "a minor mistake".
But here's where things get laughable. Anyway, he was a teacher at colleges. But it is stated in 2008. that he was a teacher at for 19 different courses in 4 different towns. As if I'd believe in that.
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