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| Thread: My 12 factions of HoMM-6-7-.. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
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posted November 11, 2010 11:14 PM |
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My 12 factions of HoMM-6-7-..
What if we had 12 factions instead of 5 that we actually will..?
Indroducing my vision of them!!!
Haven
“For honor. Order and Duty”
aka: Griffin Empire / The Knights of the Light
terrain: Summer plains
core:
Archer/Marksman
Sentinel/Praetorian
Griffin/Imperial Griffin
elite:
Cleric/Priestess (female)
Crusader/Templar
Knight/Paladin (cavalier)
champion:
Angel/Archangel (male)
Sanctuary
“Only higher races are blessed with nobility”
aka: High Elves / Elven Kingdom
terrain: Autumn plains
core:
Sprite/Pixie
Guardian/Keeper
Prophetess/Oracle
elite:
Pegasus/Silver Pegasus
Noble Elf/Archon
Unicorn/Pristine Unicorn
champion:
Fire bird/Phoenix
Sylvan
“Mother Nature will cure the world”
aka: Wood Elves / Rampart
terrain: Grass
core:
Satyr/Faun
Nymph/Dryad
Hunter/Master Hunter
elite:
Centaur/Centaur Charger
Druid/High Druid
Treant/Ancient
champion:
Green Dragon/Emerald Dragon
Academy
“All the secrets will be understood, and mastered, in time”
aka: The Wizards / The Mages
terrain: Magic Sand
core:
Golem/Iron Golem
Apprentice/Adept (female mage)
Gargoyle/Obsidian Gargoyle
elite:
Genie/Master Genie
Mage/Archmage (male)
Efreet/Efreet Sultan
champion:
Colossus/Titan
Forge
“For the Clan, for the Blood”
aka: Mountain Clans
terrain: Snow
core:
Dwarf/Battle Dwarf
Warrior/Gladiator
Rune Priest/Rune Keeper
elite:
Barbarian/Berserker
Mount Giant/Frost Giant
Valkyrie/Vengeance Valkyrie
champion:
Yeti/Giant Yeti
Fortress
“You have awoken the Beast“
aka: Beastmen / Beastiary
terrain: Swamp
core:
Serpent Fly/Dragon Fly
Lizardman/Lizard Warrior
Minotaur/Minotaur King
elite:
Wyvern/Wyvern Monarch
Basilisk/Basilisk King
Manticore/Scorpicore
champion:
Hydra/Deep Hydra
Sea Temple
“We keep the secrets in the Deep”
aka: Sea Lords
terrain: Sea
core:
Medusa/Medusa Queen
Pirate/Captain
Mermaid/Syren
elite:
Sea Serpent/Sea Monster
Naga/Naga Queen
Octopus/Kraken
champion:
Sea Lord/Leviathan
Stronghold
“No one can resist the Might of Barbarians“
aka: Barbarian Tribes
terrain: Taiga
core:
Orc/Savage Orc
Wolf/Worg
Goblin/Hobgoblin
elite:
Cyclops/Cyclops King
Ogre/Ogre Shaman
Troll/War Troll
champion:
Behemoth/Ancient Behemoth
Asylum
“Darkness will execute the vengeance upon your soul”
aka: The Dark Elves
terrain : Black Stone
core:
Scout/Assassin
Wisp/Dark Wisp
Defender/Dark Warrior
elite:
Dark Mistress/Dark Matriarch
Black Queen/Dark Queen (half-spider/half-elf)
Werewolf/Lycanthrope
champion:
Red Dragon/Black Dragon
Inferno
“We will burn the world to ash and dance upon its ruins”
aka: Demons / Lords of Chaos
terrain: Lava
core:
Hellhound/Cerberus
Demon/Overseer
Beast/Fiend
elite:
Succubus/Succubus Seducer
Infernal Demon/Archdemon
Pit Lord/Overlord
champion:
Devil/Archdevil
Necropolis
“Life is change, chaos, filth and suffering. Death is peace, order, everlasting beauty”
aka: The Necromancers / The Undead
terrain: Wasteland
core:
Skeleton/Bone Guard
Ghoul/Grave Ghoul
Ghost/Banshee
elite:
Lich/Archlich
Vampire/Vampire Lord
Black Knight/Death Knight
champion:
Wraith/Death
Dungeon
“The Evil lies in shadows”
aka: Faceless / The Evil
terrain: Subterranean
core:
Spy/Shade
Shadow Warrior/Soul Hunter
Beholder/Evil Eye
elite:
Shadow mage/Evil Wizard
Nightmare/Shadow Nightmare
Avenger/Evil Avenger
champion:
Immortal/Faceless
____________
It is only the dead who have
seen the end of war
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted November 12, 2010 10:47 PM |
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First, a ncie attempt 
Though I don't suppose, H6 would have many factions 
For your suggestions: Some lineups are a bit much racials, maybe. (at least on the first look on names)
Also...medusa as core? O.o THat son't work for me...this aldy can turn livign beigns into stone with a look of her eyes, that surely deserves elite?!
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted November 13, 2010 12:56 AM |
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First of all thx for reply
About the lineups, actually i do not imagine them that much racial, exept maybe elves and humans, so will give description of some units.. The more replies i get the more i will explain (actually wanted to post pictures, but most of them are unfortunately copyright protected, so will have to describe as best as i can)
lets start with the Elves
3 factions
Wood Elves - Sylvan
High Elves - Sanctuary
Dark Elves - Asylum
Sylvan
core:
Satyr/Faun (satyrs are melee can cast some spells / upgarge looks more savage)
Nymph/Dryad (new creature Do Not look like sprites/pixies at all, more related to woods / Dryads for example are "treant-ish" female)
Hunter/Master Hunter (our beloved elf shooter, male wood-elf)
elite:
Centaur/Centaur Charger (more HoMM3 like centaurs)
Druid/High Druid (second wood-elf in line-up)
Treant/Ancient (not much changes exept the art)
champion:
Green Dragon/Emerald Dragon (same green dragon)
Sanctuary
core:
Sprite/Pixie (well.. we know them)
Guardian/Keeper (half-stag / half-humanoid)
Prophetess/Oracle (female high elf caster)
elite:
Pegasus/Silver Pegasus (horse with wings )
Noble Elf/Archon (male high elf melee-caster, something like elf-paladin, should have a really impressive look, much taller then other elves in the game, has royal armor, magic sword)
Unicorn/Pristine Unicorn (better art, not fairy-like HoMM5)
champion:
Fire bird/Phoenix (Fire bird do not ressurect/ Phoenix as usual does)
Asylum
core:
Scout/Assassin (male dark elf melee)
Wisp/Dark Wisp (spirit - ranged can cast some spells)
Defender/Dark Warrior (another dark elf male, wears magical armor and corrupted sword)
elite:
Dark Mistress/Dark Matriarch (female dark elf caster)
Black Queen/Dark Queen (half-spider/half-elf)
Werewolf/Lycanthrope (well.. you know)
champion:
Red Dragon/Black Dragon (the mighty black dragon . Love them!!!)
the more replies i get the more info i will give 
____________
It is only the dead who have
seen the end of war
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Jiriki9
Honorable
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Altar Dweller
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posted November 13, 2010 10:17 PM |
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No problem. I'll try to give more detailed reply now
Sylvan
A rather classic lineup, I would say. Having High elves makes it reasonable to move unicorns & pegasi there, somehow. For them, later.
Thoguh classic, it's a bit more "wild" than the HoMM 5 theme, I think Like it
Sanctuary
Seems to be a rather magical lineup
However, I have soem concerns:
1. it's very hooved, ain't it? 3 hooved units, probably. Especially having Pegasus AND Unicorn seems a bit close...
2. also, stag reminds me very much of forests & woods - maybe would fit more into Sylvan? Exchange, maybe, with centaur?
Asylum
one fo the racial-feeling factions. Indeed, 3.5 Elves. Dark elves...maybe a bit much, one could maybe think of soem replacements?!
Like Werewolf and Wisp here!
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted November 13, 2010 10:55 PM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 22:57, 13 Nov 2010.
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I'd recommend actually merging a few of your towns that have serious overlap.
You can inflate their creature counts above 7 seeing as it's a concept, but to many towns with similar themes is bad.
Some creatures could do with a shuffle I'd say.
I might go more in depth later, but for starters.
3 Elf factions is a no-go right off the bat, merge high and sylvan.
the dark elf faction can merge into Dungeon.
and the Sea Temple and Fortress factions could also merge, they're close in creatures enough and have similar themes.
Fewer high quality factions trump numbers of forgettable ones.
HoMM3 had more or less all the bases covered with 8 towns, we don't need much more then that unless it's something really different.
WoG's Bastion comes to mind, that would have been a great 9th faction for HoMM3.
Edit: Also the dwarf faction could do with a few more beasts from norse myth, there's to many dwarves in there.
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Jiriki9
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posted November 13, 2010 10:58 PM |
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Quote:
You can inflate their creature counts above 7 seeing as it's a concept, but to many towns with similar themes is bad.
Sorry to go a bit offtopic, but: WHY? You can't just say "it's bad". It's a matter of taste. Some want few unique factions. Some want many factiosn, with some similar, but still different. Also, the setting can be quite different, still! Btu that's an old discussion...
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted November 14, 2010 05:59 AM |
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Here we go.. some another factions description..
Forge
So called Mountain Clans (a union of Dwarves and Norse Warriors of honour, btw those warriors separated themselves from Haven faction long time ago, because of disagreement with church and the king and united with dwarves. It took time though and Warriors had to proove a lot to Dwarves who in the end admired their sence of honour and skills in battle)
core:
Dwarf/Battle Dwarf (dwarf , tough defensive tank)
Warrior/Gladiator (human warrior, weaker then dwarf, but faster)
Rune Priest/Rune Keeper (dwarf priest ranged/caster)
elite:
Barbarian/Berserker (strongest human warrior / upgrade makes it twice stronger, but can not be controlled by player)
Mount Giant/Frost Giant (guardian of the dwarves)
Valkyrie/Vengeance Valkyrie (guardian of the human warriors)
champion:
Yeti/Giant Yeti (champion of Mountain Clans can cast "blizzard" spell)
Academy
The Mages/Wizards. Academy uses all sources of magic(exept necromancy) to achieve their goals. That's why their line up consists of "good" creatures along with "chaotic/destructive"
core:
Golem/Iron Golem (well.. golem)
Apprentice/Adept (female mage, less spells and weaker then Mage/Archmage)
Gargoyle/Obsidian Gargoyle (Do NOT look like the one in HoMM5, should look a bit scary and demonic)
elite:
Genie/Master Genie (only the fact that Genie can not deny the will of their master makes them fight back to back to hated Efreeti)
Mage/Archmage (male Mage / the strongest mage in the game in regards of spells, but weak HP for elite creature)
Efreet/Efreet Sultan (it took generations for magi to learn how to control this powerful and chaotic creature)
champion:
Colossus/Titan (my favourite Academy creature btw)
Haven
not much to say .. pretty much the same Castle that we know.. will highlight just few units
Cleric/Priestess (female cleric / no offensive magic / blesses and healing like spells)
Crusader/Templar (holy guardian of Griffin Empire / can cast couple of spells as well / strong against undead)
Knight/Paladin (cavalier / paladin can heal units)
champion:
Angel/Archangel (should be male!!!)
Stronghold
Barbarians! more like HoMM3 / not Orcish that we got in HoMM5
core:
Orc/Savage Orc (the ONLY Orc in faction)
Wolf/Worg (fast creature and worth upgrading, Worgs are much more powerful)
Goblin/Hobgoblin (weakest Stronghold unit/ has the "sneaking" ability which helps to avoid damage)
elite:
Cyclops/Cyclops King (shooter)
Ogre/Ogre Shaman (upgrade is a matter of a choice, as Ogre-Shaman can cast spells, while basic Ogre is more powerful )
Troll/War Troll (one of the worst enemies to fight against because of its regeneration ability)
champion:
Behemoth/Ancient Behemoth (very Tough, very Slow)
Impatiently waiting for replies...)
____________
It is only the dead who have
seen the end of war
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted November 14, 2010 09:12 AM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 09:14, 14 Nov 2010.
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Quote:
Quote:
You can inflate their creature counts above 7 seeing as it's a concept, but to many towns with similar themes is bad.
Sorry to go a bit offtopic, but: WHY? You can't just say "it's bad". It's a matter of taste. Some want few unique factions. Some want many factiosn, with some similar, but still different. Also, the setting can be quite different, still! Btu that's an old discussion...
You're right, you're absolutely right.
"In my opinion, this is an unwise decision."
Would have captured it much better, I am not speaking for anybody besides myself, nor am I stating a fact.
I still think, to many factions are bad, it's nigh impossible to have 12 factions and make them all diverse and relevant, judging by more or less every strategy game I've ever played.
I generally find, the more factions, the less memorable they are.
A streamlined design with less factions that are widely diverse, is good.
Hence I quoted HoMMIII, it had quite a large number of factions, but none of them were conceptually similar at all.
To me it feels like a few of the towns in this 12 faction line-up simply exist to file additional creatures that didn't get into the other 9.
Mind you, I'm commenting on it, because I care, I applaud people who come with creative ideas, but I'm not going to cuddle them.
But I, once again, should have made it clear, I'm just voicing my opinion.
I think most of the faction ideas in this list are rather good, and with a little refinement, they could be even better.
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alcibiades
Honorable
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of Gold Dragons
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posted November 14, 2010 09:44 AM |
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I understand the oppinion that many factions are nice, but I think splitting up Sylvan into Sylvan and Sanctuary is redundant, and the Sea Temple seems like a direct miss-match to me (Mermaids and Pirates?).
I agree that 5 factions is a bit (or very) dissapointing, but 12 is probably going a bit too far in the opposite direction. I would probably aim for a maximum of 10:
Haven (Human)
Inferno (Demons)
Sylvan (Elves)
Dungeon* (Drows)
Necropolis (Undead)
Academy (Mages + Animates (or Elements?))
Forge (Dwarves + Constructs)
Fortress (Lizardmen or Naga)
Stronghold (Orcs)
Hmmm ... actually, I'm not sure I realy see the need for a 10th faction. Elementals are always an option, but would probably be more succesfully if somehow integrated in Academy. Probably a 10th faction should be another underground faction, in which case I'd follow the lead from above an call the Dark Elf faction Asylum and make a separate Dungeon with either an Illithid race or perhaps some sort of beast man centered around Minotaur.
____________
What will happen now?
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 14, 2010 10:13 AM |
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Haven - Pretty-much bog-standard, and while I agree that it's kind of difficult to come up with really unique units for Haven, did you even try?
Sanctuary - Good to see a split between high/forest elves.
Sylvan - Oh not the friggin dragon again, couldn't you have come up with a better top-tier unit, like say the Treant, which is the size of a tree?
Academy - Good to see Apprentice, not so much the Efreet.
Forge - Switch the Rune-Priest and Barbarian IMO.
Fortress - Not too keen on the Minotaur or Manticore, but otherwise a good faction.
Sea Temple - Never been too keen on a sea faction, and IMO its hard to believe this town could even be stable.
Stronghold - Again, stability issues.
Asylum - Interesting lineup.
Inferno - Another town I was never keen on to start with (ie, I dislike the whole idea, not just your lineup).
Necropolis - See Inferno comment.
Dungeon - Another interesting lineup.
BTW are we allowed to post our own faction ideas here, or just comment on yours?
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Jiriki9
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posted November 14, 2010 11:27 AM |
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Edited by Jiriki9 at 12:11, 14 Nov 2010.
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@mrdragon:
Thank you
I know that quite soem people feel like you. I do not. But I think this is just a matter of taste, of how important is diversity, uniqueness and such for you.
For an example where I found many factions work good, I can give Age of Wonders. A great game, imo, though I would have preferred a mix of AoW1 and AoW2
Now for the next factions from darklord...
Forge
First, I'm not sure I like the name...I t COULD be the name of a dwarven town, but yours doesn't look so forging-based - In a forge, I'd expect mechanical or heavy armoured units, rather than the wild, partly beastish powers you seem to unlash with the faction
The lineup in itself could be more diverse for me. Seems to be all going in the setting of wild warriors, only one heavy armored the rest seems at most middle-armored - also: is there any shooter in the lineup? O.o
Have to say, this faction needs quite soem work in my eyes.
Academy
Quite a classical lineup, which is ok. I do not appreciate though, that there are apprentice and mage, somehow. I also made a lineup like this, once, I think, but now I do not really like it. Something else woudl be nice here...
Haven:
Just haven, seemingly. Interesting is: Will there be no Griffin?! Or is it Core?
Stronghold:
Another quite classical lineup^^
Seems to be a mix of H2 and H3. Like it, except of Ogre Shaman.
MattIIIs last question is more than reasonable. I'd liek to know, too, if we can post our ideas, here, too.
EDIT: also, I don't think it's wise to be BArbarian be a unit AND a hero class...
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mytheroes
Famous Hero
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posted November 14, 2010 01:14 PM |
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If you want a game with tons of races go check Warlords Battlecry 3. It's an RTS game. The game has 16 races so it should be paradise for those who want lots and lots of race.
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Jiriki9
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posted November 14, 2010 01:21 PM |
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Its not the number of races which make a game good for me, allthough I like it. Also: It's an RTS^^
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mytheroes
Famous Hero
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posted November 14, 2010 01:25 PM |
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It's not just for you, it's for other people who may like that kind of stuff as well.
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted November 14, 2010 03:31 PM |
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I think Warlods IV had a big number of races as well, not to mention the Age of Wonders series. For some reason though, games with a big number of factions are never actually taken seriously, unless they are historical, i.e. Civilization or Age of Empires.
As for the topic, I agree with those who said having 2 elf factions is pointless. Same for the sea monsters faction, it'll never happen due to gameplay purposes. I like the Asylum and Dungeon lineups though.
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Jiriki9
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posted November 14, 2010 03:35 PM |
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Edited by Jiriki9 at 15:38, 14 Nov 2010.
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Hmm, they are never taken seriously, but why? As you mentioned, in historical games it's no problem...so, psychologically, is it just people don't want to be a fantasy world any close to really - in which there always have been a mass of factions, which are yet often not SO different from another. However, often these factions cuddled in one Giant Faction or so.. at least in massive conflicts (liek the 30 year long war (don't knwo if you DO call it so in English, or if it's even important for you^^), the WWs or the Cold War...
I think, though it will not happen in heroes, 2 elven factiosn (WITHOUT DARK ELVES) are quite reasonable.
EDIT: In fact, in the Make a HoMM competition our team was working on I think 4 actions containing elves...wood elves, high elves (in an egyptian stlye faction, together with feline huamnoids, I think), RIver elves (magic & water bound) and Dark Elves...
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted November 14, 2010 03:58 PM |
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^I guess it's because people can relate when it's historical stuff, not to mention that the differences between the factions are more tangible and of course they are never really big. When it comes to fantasy, the average player probably does not want to learn how different goblins and halfings or wood and high elves are. And most likely the big number discourages the player, since it totally implies that the game is too extensive and complicated. It helps Heroes that most of its factions are common and reliable, like humans, demons, undead, elves.
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Jiriki9
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posted November 14, 2010 05:56 PM |
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hmmm I, for one, don't find that aspect too great. I think what made homm always great were the game mechanics. And those were about best in H3. That does nt at all mean I'm a "make H6 H3 the second" type!!! I found several aspects of H5 very great!!!
But I do not liek the development H6 seems to take and 5 are much too less factions for my taste!!!
Yet, we are going faaar offtopic!!!
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 14, 2010 08:48 PM |
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Quote:
(liek the 30 year long war (don't knwo if you DO call it so in English, or if it's even important for you
That was the one in the 17th century was it, between the Holy Roman and Spanish Empires, and the rest of Europe? If it is, it's just the Thirty Years War in English.
As for the issue in hand, maybe if we introduced C&C Generals like sub-races, each of which has a slightly different lineup. I mean we already know that there are several Duchy's in the Haven Faction, and that the Dark Elves are not all one people, so it's not hard to imagine some regional variation in other factions as well.
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Jiriki9
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posted November 15, 2010 05:32 PM |
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I don'T know about the spanish empires^^ Time and Holy Roman Empire however are quite right. Was mainly catholics versus protestants, as far as I know. I think Britain stayed out of line, mainly.However, the population of many lands, was devastated.
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