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| Thread: (H3 Complete) The Cold Shoulder |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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Gibblets
Adventuring Hero
Spontaneously Coherent Typist
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posted November 21, 2010 02:31 AM |
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-I removed the scroll of hypnotize
I'm going to find out if I gave Astral too many creatures, but I'd rather start high and work my way down. Since I only need to play through it once now and record at what time I reached Astral, with what creatures, skills, and what strategy I used to get there. Then see how hard it is and adjust his growth through the events and place a hero of equivilant strength to my original play through and do this fight over and over again until it feels just right.
I'm playing through the map as Teal right now and watching the AI on 200% to see how it behaves and builds and make sure it doesn't do anything strange. As it stands I'm not making any changes to the dynamics of the map until I choose Astrals' spells and play through it myself again after the AI run through.
That's true Pacifist, I thought that disabling the artifacts as a whole would prevent players from combining them.
I'll keep an eye open for this Dimension Door bug you speak of.
If I'm to give the player a disabling spell by the endgame I think it should be Berserk. I'm not sure why, it's just the gut feeling I have.
How did you get to Cloud 8.5 by 1-3-1? I gave it my best and only got there by 1-4-2. During that play through I attacked Halon and his selection of spells were devastatingly sufficient. So I'm happy with Halon at this point.
@Coconut Don't worry, I never would get rid of the original version swamp trees. They are pivotal to one of the features in this map, and won't be going anywhere. I've already put some of the newer vegetation in this map, but only where it's appropriate for contrast reasons. Well if you ever have internet access on your computer, let me know, and I'll make the newest version available to you.
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pacifist
Famous Hero
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posted November 21, 2010 11:14 AM |
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Edited by pacifist at 11:28, 21 Nov 2010.
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Ok, on 200% difficulty :
Day 1 : visit purple tent, swordman dwelling, take campire
Day 2 : visit archer dwelling, take only archers, more need of archers here than a swordman for the garrison fight. The swordmans will be prayered and take out the 2 gremlins stacks, while the archers kill the mage and shoot only with full arrow on golems. Play with them with the swordmans and only attack them melee when retal doesnt kill one swordman if possible. Visit scholar, take free archers and campire and take town. Sleep there with only swordman on hero.
Day 3 : Attack lizardman, take ore and flag ore mine then free Sir Mullick, give all troops to him except one swordman and he will capture the wood mine.
Day 4 : Rae-Anna visits windmill and mystical garden while Sir Mullich, after having bought a magic book visits the crypt. Don't visit marletto tower but head back to give troops to Rae-Anna.
Day 5 : Sir Mullich gives troops to Rae-Anna who fights the gnolls and ready to capture their dwellings.
Day 6 : Sir Mullich with one pikeman returns to hire the remaining swordman and archers in the dwellings before day 7.
Day 7 : Rae-Anna takes the chests (she should be lv4 with expert pathfinding but priority is expert water, logistics is a big plus of course). I gave her one chest of xp , the other two took money. Sir Mullich buys troops from dwellings has time to visit Marletto tower now and learning stone. Just put pikeman and archers in garrison for a little more speed.
Day 8 : Sir Mullich buys new troops from dwellings and rests in town while Rae-Anna goes visit the tavern. No money for war machines but if you can (lower difficulty) it's a big plus for next fights. Hire the 2 heroes that come and give troops to Rae-Anna next day only, she has to finish day only with faster troops.In my case it was harpies.
Day 9 : Passing by the portal Rae-Anna goes to fight the serpent flies. She receives all troops except one fast for each hero and Sir Mullich gives also to her all hired troops. Everything could be buy except pikemans. Use trade post if necessary. A citadel has been built before day 7 of course. So fort, blacksmith and barracks build also before day 7. She uses the fodders from the hired hero of different aligment. In may case it was 6 harpies and 40 trogs. Use the fodders next to archers to attract attack from flies. After fight, don't capture sulfur mine, head for magic well.
Day 10 : One hero stays at marketplace, the other will visit one dwelling for gnolls, and use the on swamp, dismiss harpie as she will not be necessary anymore. This hero will visit windmill, mystical garden and flag sulfur mine while Sir Mullich follows Rae-Anna and takes free swordman after she defeats the dragonflies. Don't take chest now or visit mercenary camp with him, he needs to give troops to Rae-Anna next turn and visit Gem mine. Rae-Anna follows her way in the sawmps with only one harpie.
Day 11 : Rae-Anna captures the 2 hives, first the one above, using fountain of youth after each battle while Sir Mullich captures gem mine.
Day 12 : Rae-Anna capture 3th hive , Sir Mullick catches her and takes all remaining troops except wyverns. 3th hero will collect the chest near mercenary camp for gold.
Day 13 : Sir Mullich gives all troops except one harpy to Rae-Anna who fights the 50 master genies, cross the gate, takes the free griffins, don't visit Shrine of magic thought, fight the genies, and capture Cloud 8.5. A castle is built in New Orange.
Day 14 : Rae-Anna captures the 2 angel dwellings after having hired an archangel, and captures one griffin conservatory (2 angels in my case).
Lost all archers, marksman, several swordman, 4 wyverns but for having 5 angels/week from now and 6 when castle can be built in Cloud8.5.
You can delay a little and build crusaders and marksman but crusaders will be mixed with swordmans and will be targeted more than if they have a big stack of swordman. Reaching Cloud8.5 on day 7 is ok too since a fresh hero can be hired there to flag the angel dwellings on day 7.
Yes, removing blind was only necessary vs the fortress heroes but you can give it before reaching Astral, or berserk if you prefer, in case you give berserk then Astral can be stronger than if you give only blind.
I will be busy these days with chess competition, so i'll probably have another go at the map once you have tested it a little more  . Good luck and keep improving your skills 
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http://www.youtube.com/user/alkoriak#g/u
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Gibblets
Adventuring Hero
Spontaneously Coherent Typist
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posted November 23, 2010 05:11 PM |
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Hmm a chess competition sounds like fun, Good Luck.
Well I think I've got the difficulty perfected up to the conquering of the first Fortress area. I have yet to properly balance the other two areas.
During the AI run through the computer opponents never did anything buggy. Although purple never went beyond the prison in their starting area
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Gibblets
Adventuring Hero
Spontaneously Coherent Typist
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posted November 24, 2010 06:56 AM |
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Edited by Gibblets at 11:40, 24 Nov 2010.
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Okay I just finished a rigorous full day of testing and made some changes. This is the best version yet. I removed a few inconsistencies and fine tuned the enemy heroes and armies, to name a few things. So Pacifist, if you could give it a thorough flogging as it seems only you can, I think this would make it a lot closer to being ready.
The Link 7th version http://www.sendspace.com/file/s5eq8g
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pacifist
Famous Hero
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posted November 24, 2010 09:49 AM |
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Ok, I'll have another go asap. Just a little observation though. I noticed you gave resistance artifacts to the player but let him decide if he takes or not the skill. So I didn't say anything since they can be used by other heroes. In my previous round I was planning to take resistance in the end but after having taken tactics. The problem with giving Rae-Anna resistance skill basic from beginning can greatly influence the skill-tree and it can be hard to achieve expert water when it's the more crucial. So maybe give the resistance skill with a hut, so the player can choose the moment or if you only want to give it to Rae-Anna, a scholar or a seer hut asking for her will be ok too. Resistance will only be helpful after Cloud8.5 anyway. Well, just a suggestion, the map can certainly be played as it is, just more ramdom and times can vary greatly from one time to another. The player will have harder time to achieve expert logistics, pathfinding and water. Only water is crucial though.
For the rest, from what I see, it seems ok. Did you play the map till the end in this version? Because maybe other players will be interested but only if they have the guarantee the map is playable till the end .
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http://www.youtube.com/user/alkoriak#g/u
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Gibblets
Adventuring Hero
Spontaneously Coherent Typist
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posted November 24, 2010 11:17 AM |
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Edited by Gibblets at 11:41, 24 Nov 2010.
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I know exactly where to place the witch hut, just behind and adjacent to the last scholar of the Pathfinding skill. I assume when you speak of randomness and how the map can vary, you're referring to the variety of skills that can be chosen from? This change has been incorporated into the map above. As well as a bit of eye candy as well. (which does not interfere with the flow of the map)
Of course I played it through to the end. I definitely wouldn't have said "a rigorous full day of testing" if I had not played it through to the end, twice.
Next time I play through I'm going to take the Catapult skill as my last secondary. Because it seems to me that could make a 15% difference in how hard the last fight will be. I'll also take fire magic as my other magic school since I've already used the others up to the last fight.
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If it's true that our species is alone in the Universe, then I'd have to say the Universe aimed low, and settled for very little. - George Carlin
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pacifist
Famous Hero
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posted November 24, 2010 11:51 AM |
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Edited by pacifist at 12:25, 24 Nov 2010.
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Yes, the skill tree is fixed from the beginning and cannot be changed so it's not always possible to have the skills you want. The tree can be changed with huts, scholars, events or magic universities or anything that gives a free skill but other than that it's fixed from the start of the game. So it's a ramdom thing that we could achieve expert water magic in the first 5 levels for example and also if we want also expert logistics because this skill has no guarantee to be offered when it matters the most, in the swamps. Ballistic is of course great for last fight or we need a destructive spell (meteor shower or other area spell) to destroy own catapult. Maybe another hut for ballistic before the player reaches the 8 skills? The player can maybe be in a situation he never gets offered ballistics or logistics or he gets it/them but has to discard another useful skill he really needs.
For example, the player can be offered ballistics if he takes leadership instead of advanced water magic at level-up and never again be offered ballistics if he doesn't take it immediately and thus will have much harder fights in the swamps. Anyway maybe it's ok like that, the player just has to choose his priorities . A pity the magic universtity cannot be customized by mapmaker.
But why fire magic? You banned berserk and blind. Another use or just for variety? It seems to me earth and air magic are much better although not essential either.
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http://www.youtube.com/user/alkoriak#g/u
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Gibblets
Adventuring Hero
Spontaneously Coherent Typist
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posted November 24, 2010 11:14 PM |
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Edited by Gibblets at 06:54, 26 Nov 2010.
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Just a quick reply as I'm almost out the door for the day. I'm going to play through with Fire Magic because I DID nerf it so much. It's hardly common knowledge that these spells in particular were disabled so I want to make sure if someone takes it they won't be hampered compared to someone who takes earth, which is almost completely intact.
Because to me it's not about making some skills better then others. Ideally every skill combination (barring ones we all already know are on the useless side, like 'Scholar') should provide the player with a unique advantage during each play through without making it easier or harder for the player. Of course there are some skills which are invaluable like Pathfinding, Water Magic and maybe even Resistance. The player gets those mandatorily anyways, but I want to leave the door open for as many unique strategies to tackle this map as possible.
One of these times I'm going to play through having a focus on using primarily wizard creatures from the Tower town for most of the game and see if that is a detriment or if large numbers of Titans and ranged creatures is beneficial above and beyond angels and Wyverns.
It is a pity that the University can't be edited for skills. It makes no sense that the developers would have overlooked something so useful.
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pacifist
Famous Hero
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posted November 29, 2010 10:17 AM |
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I'm sorry I didn't have time to play it entirely yet but I was sick and just began work today. I just had time to have a look in editor and it seems fine now from that point of view. So I guess it's a good challenge now. Hope you had other backup from other players as this map is worth playing and design is very interesting. Hope I will have time to play but for the moment I don't have that time nor the health necessary since I have a problem remaining sitting for a long time due to nerve problem in the leg.
As far as i'm aware, from my point of view the map is now ok for release to the community. Now it's for you to decide if it's good for you too .
Just had a quick look at the H5 map and it also seems very interesting, hope i'll find there too the time to give it a try...
Good continuation ! good mapmakers are needed if we want the game to last and that is for all Homm versions
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http://www.youtube.com/user/alkoriak#g/u
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Gibblets
Adventuring Hero
Spontaneously Coherent Typist
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posted November 30, 2010 05:14 AM |
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I wish you a swift recovery Pacifist
I'm relieved to have your approval on my map . In the beginning it didn't seem like I would run out of changes that had to be made to this map. However after your advice and encouragement the map has improved a lot, and I feel that after one more play through with Fire Magic and Catapult secondary (barring the unforeseen) it will be ready for release.
I hope you will find the time to try my H5 map too. I would love to see it improve from some more advice. And this time I can guarantee the first time you play it there are no objects blocking paths or missing guards to portals
Once again, thanks for the assistance
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Gibblets
Adventuring Hero
Spontaneously Coherent Typist
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posted November 30, 2010 11:17 AM |
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Edited by Gibblets at 10:30, 01 Dec 2010.
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I am going to play through this one last time during the next 2 days and then release the map. I just needed a break from it, played through it two times in one day after a year and a half of on and off play.
Edit: I'm really looking forward to using the MMH6 editor. The Heroes community involvement in making it is a very promising start
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If it's true that our species is alone in the Universe, then I'd have to say the Universe aimed low, and settled for very little. - George Carlin
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 09, 2010 11:53 PM |
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The map looks very nice in the editor. I have two suggestions:
1) Use more than one terrain, first because swamp can be very annoying, second because the eyes need to identify several zones in a map and then plan a strategy. Having the same terrain over and over makes the mental representation of the map much harder.
2) Don't use events with bad language. If on first day I get an event which says "you are in same S.H.I.T", you can be sure I close that map. I guess you did not want it to be rude, but a map is a story, and usually stories beginning with rude/bad words continue that way. Along with great fights and great strategy, people want also to read nice and interesting things, if there is any story.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Gibblets
Adventuring Hero
Spontaneously Coherent Typist
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posted December 10, 2010 03:10 AM |
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@Salamandre 1) Uhh, the whole point of this map is to remain in a very heavy swamp, I'm not going to change that, no matter how hard it makes your mental representation. I feel it's fairly simple to tell where the zones are. I've already used snow, and grass as the contrast terrains. Besides that, I did what at the time was my best to create 3 unique looking swamp areas to fight in.
2) I assume you're referring to the resource event with the text that only the orange AI player and someone peering into the inner workings sees? I could rant a lot right now but I'll keep it short. I'm not aiming at a PG audience or even caring if some content of my creation offends someone. As long as no civil laws were broken in my creation I will make no apologies. I suppose this is no different to creating a song and someone hears a word they don't like and they shun the content forever.
Although if you check every event a human player is likely to encounter (aside from the secret one in the north underground which contains 'damn') there are no obscenities.
Let me ask you a few questions, have you played the map through thereby giving me an informed opinion? and do you have the latest version? which is available at the top of this topic or at a few map hosting sites.
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Coconut
Hired Hero
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posted December 11, 2010 04:27 PM |
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Quote:
1) Use more than one terrain, first because swamp can be very annoying, second because the eyes need to identify several zones in a map and then plan a strategy. Having the same terrain over and over makes the mental representation of the map much harder.
Yes, orientation can be a problem, but more so on XL maps. Then a variety of terrains will help the player tell where a certain hero is.
But for small or medium maps - Cold Shoulder is medium - orientation shouldn't be much of a problem, and then a variety of terrains can actually look messy.
I see that the map is now uploaded at Celestial Heavens, so I can get the newer version too - Yippee!!
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Gibblets
Adventuring Hero
Spontaneously Coherent Typist
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posted December 11, 2010 11:39 PM |
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Well put Coconut
I hope you enjoy the map as much I did before the 19th time through it.
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