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| Thread: Concerning night and day... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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Wesley
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
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posted February 03, 2002 11:57 PM |
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YEAH!
That's even cooler!!!
I'm so stupid.. That I didn't thought about that earlier..
Good thinking lith 
It's ofcourse stupid to close towns at daytime...That would be unbalanced(or whatever that is called)
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted February 04, 2002 05:47 AM |
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This really wouldn't make it a more fun game.. If all your heroes moved during the day, then you can't really do much in the night can you? And would you be able to build buildings if you already did that in the day? You'd just be waiting for nothing. It would just unnecessarily delay the game even longer (i don't mean release date, but an actual match).
Since the world is big, just make it some portions of the map are day and some portions are night, at the same time. But that would assume the whole map you're playing represents the entire world, which is not necessarily the case (though you could imagine it so).
I don't like the idea of each day being two turns. You would have to wait 14 turns for new troops to appear in the castles (which some times seems long enough just at 7). And there are just not enough night time creatures in the game compared to day time creatures to justify this.
Fog of war is already revealed to be in H4 even in the day time.
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malkia
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 04, 2002 11:30 AM |
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Jenova,
it's just instead of turnings by days
we'll have turnings per DAY/NIGHT or even more
MIDNIGHT/MORNING/(after)NOON/NIGHT - 4
so DAY will come actually after 4 turns.
but... this is probably for some other game.
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SirDunco
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 04, 2002 09:31 PM |
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Everyone...
First of all OldTimer thanks on "qouting" me on the rest thing.
The rest of you guys look this is quite simple and can be easily done. Just think of this you move your hero, pick up some resources maybee get in a battle and the day ends. You rest at night while anohter hero from your town is moving.
I don't know what's so hard about this.
Yes and i'd like to combine this with the weather ideas(Mine and other peoples) so the game gives you a realsitic thinking of time.
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Wesley
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
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posted February 04, 2002 09:36 PM |
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Sir Dunco.
This Idea was kind of old...
I used it in almost all of my town Ideas. Myself made a Thread long ago. About Weather and Day and Night effects.
And there is another Day/Night thread if i'm not wrong.
I guess it's because of that..
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SirDunco
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 04, 2002 09:50 PM |
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Wesley
tht's not my point. I was about the frist person who posted day and night and weather, but this is actualy HOW the night and day feature would work. So that's why...
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Wesley
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
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posted February 04, 2002 10:02 PM |
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Ow I see :)
So your the poster of the first day and night post?
Can't remember it. But O well. I think there should be QP given to that post(or this post)
I myself love the day and night and Weather effect most of all effects... I made that up before I even knew about HC and still posted on Archangelcastle. I made a GIANT post about weather/day/Night and Natural disasters once. But in my rage of hate I deleted that topic with all my others.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted February 04, 2002 11:34 PM |
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The reason you've not got qp:s is probably because the ways of the moderator are unknowable, the topic has been taken up before and the moderator wants to see that the discussion turns out well before awarding the thread.
You've also made the mistake of not fleshing out the full idea yourself. Darkspirit, Oldtimer and Malkia are actually doing most of the suggestions to make the idea workabale. That is not to say you won't get a qp if you continue by adding on-topic stuff to the thread, but this thread is otherwise a good example on where the bonuses might fall on other people than the thread-starter. (At least that's what would be going through my mind if I was the moderator...)
So back to the topic.
While splitting the turn of one day into 2 or 4 might be a way of handling this, the best way of handling night and day would really be real-time-play.
If you take the real-time solution then the movement of the creatures would depend on which time of day it is, and so would their combat values.
However, you can't add real-time-play into heroes without drastically altering the game, and then perhaps you shouldn't add it all. There will be major compromises to make in order to maintain startegy and gameplay and at the same time add a time-dependent feature.
I don't agree with Lith's list on movement. Undead could move at any time of the day, and would have fixed movement rates as they don't rely on sight and generally ignore both fatigue and pain. The same would apply to elementals and golems. So all of these would have a movement which would not depend on the time of day. Do note that flyers would travel at the same speed on the map day and night, because they're not actually moving through all the obstacles on the ground.
And Vampires recouperate during the DAY when they're supposed to lie in their coffins. Just as humans recouperate during the NIGHT when we sleep (at least this is the case for most people).
If we stick to the turn-based-approach, I'd use separate turns for day and night, but would ignore fatigue and let creatues travel (but at reduced speed) on both turns. This would dissuade the player from mixing night and day creatures.
Instead I would apply a major combat penalty. Also any shooter relying on sight for aiming should be heavily penalized during night, and probably they should not be able to use ranged attacks at all.
Myself, I'd be inclined to abandon night and day for a seasonal feature (winter/spring/summer/autumn). That way the adventure map could slowly change over time. So I'd like terrain and climate features more than night and day feature.
Also to be honest I've always thought of the turns you have as being a week(s) rather than a single day. In a single day you're not going to be able to build a fort or any other dwelling, and you're not going to be able to research spells at mage guilds and so on.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Wesley
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
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posted February 04, 2002 11:58 PM |
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Edited By: Wesley on 4 Feb 2002
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Hmm
I already told this. But again.
There should be creatures that are different on day and night maps.
I only have 2 for now.
Gargoyle And troll
Both this creatures can't stand the SUN light. So they would be KILLED if they see it. They are both not as smart as the vampire. That uses a medalion to stay alive(My guess)
IF they ever had this Day/Night future. Then the troll and gargoyle(both mayor creatures from homm games) the following futures.
Gargoyle:
During Moring: During moring the speed of the gargoyles takes off. He can still move ofcourse.
During Day:The Gargoyle can't move at Dayttime. But for returing it becomes another kind of creature. It becomes a statue. This statue can't move at all. But he can shoot fireballs at his enemies.
During Evening:The gargoyle is able to move but it's not much.
During Night:The gargoyle is able to move freely. His attack and speed are on FULL power.
This all chance if the gargoyle is used on underground maps. Underground maps are always dark and everything works like NIGHT. The gargoyle is like he is During nighttime on the normal map.(All the time)
Troll:
Trolls are even less resistance agains sunlight. It can even kill them. Normally it turns them into stone. I made it this way. They turn themself into stone to not be killed by the sunlight. So during daytime the troll is a stone statue.
During Morning:The troll is able to move.But not that fast and his skills aren't as they are during nighttime.
During Day:The troll is a stone statue. It can't attack. But it's defence is very high(This could be handy for defender for shooters.)
During Evening:The troll is able to move. But not that fast and his skills aren't as they are during nighttime.
During Night:Trolls are nightcreatures they are very powerfull during night. Because they can't attack during daytime they should get a really good special ability during nighttime.
DURING travel at day time. The Gargoyle and the Troll will both lower the speed of your moving creature/hero.
I will think of more soon..
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Darion
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 05, 2002 01:03 AM |
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Just wanted to add something in.. I hope this hasn't already been added, but you know how Homm4 now has the thing where the troops only regenerate their HP after the turn ends? Perhaps you could make it so that the day/night creatures only regenerate their Hp during the day/night. After the night ends (during which the night creatures have been travelling and battling) then the day creatures wake up refreshed and recuperated, ready to battle and build and travel.
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SirDunco
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 06, 2002 03:23 AM |
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More creatures
Well there should be Nightmare just it's name makes it like that.
Ummm maybee Vampires... yes sun technicaly kills them so they could not attack or move at day and they would be very week because of the sunlight...
...Well can't think of anymore...
P.S.: When did u join before u got banned?(and now ur back again)
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malkia
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 06, 2002 06:18 AM |
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TWO, THREE, FOUR... IDEAS: 
As game turns full day/night, let's say that ALL HEROES use that Day/night (no sleeping) - e.g. hero work day is 24 hours (it's fantasy after all )
Then let's say the HERO'S day begins at 08:00am and ends the other day at 07:59am.
Let's hero got 50 total movement points - let's now hero got only 10 movement points. So from 24 hours 10 movement points leave us to calcucate where are the 40: or this is it 24/50 * 40 -> about 19 hours. 19 hours + 08:00 - gives us - 03:00am in the morning (the other day). So when hero is at his 40 movement points used (10 left) he is at 3:00am o clock (uh bad thing).
VARIATION/SUBIDEA 1: We can make that heroes do not start alwasy from 08:00am - but differently. Though don't have ideas about that.
VARATION/SUBIDEA 2: Let's say that we don't want our hero to move all his day 24 hours. Yes - he's hero - but he needs rest - also his army. So it's up to player to not use all his MOVEMENT POINTS this day. There can be various penalties - for example - if player used all his movement points for this day - automatically for the next day - he'll start not from 8:00 but later - like 13:00 (01:00pm) - because he's troopes needed sleep. This can be for example some SKILL - and also some creatures - like SKELETONS/Gargoyles when used with HERO who don't need sleep - actually can skip all sleeping. Another thing is that if you've sleeped well - you gain the other day - more
points.
and so on....
BTW: Instead of day/night - we have already 7 days/week - and we have 6 towns - we can randomly each next week give one EXTRA/GOOD or BAD day for some of the players. One of the days will be neutral for everyone. And you'll never know when this day will be. If there are only 3 players left - then days can be distributed equally - having 2 days per week which are GOOD or BAD - or just ONLY one - and the other one - empty
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted February 06, 2002 07:31 AM |
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Heroes would be pretty slow to travel only 12 steps in a "week". The seasons idea is good.. Might require a 3D engine to put snow on the trees, or have the tree leaves turn yellow and fall off..
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Oldtimer
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Please leave a message after..
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posted February 06, 2002 08:34 AM |
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Splitting the day into two separate turns would probably be very annoying and make the game worse, but how about a different tack.
It seems that alot of people set time limits upon turns, 2 minute turns or 4 minute turns etc. Maybe you should be able to set a turn time before you start your game. So you have 4 minutes to complete your turn. Now you would have a clock ticking and it would start at midnight. The screen would show night conditions with night wandering monsters, 1 minute into your turn it would be 6am and the map would show day time conditions and day monsters at three minutes into your turn the clock would show 6pm and revert to night conditions.
You could then plan your turn to do economic decisions during your night portion and movement during your day. An option should be available to skip the clock ahead a quarter day and of coarse end the day at any time. This could be an advanced option when setting up game conditions and disabled for people who would like to play normally.
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<PLEASE DO NOT WAKE THE OLD MAN!>
"Zzzz...Zzzz...Zzzz..."
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted February 07, 2002 03:40 AM |
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4 minutes is too time limited. If you get into a couple of battles you can easily go over 4 mins. And if you ended your turn early, you wouldn't get an even day/night spread. Worst of all, it would put you in a rush, and you wouldn't have the time needed to think things out strategically. I like turn based games because you can take your time (err.. maybe not in multiplayer) -- you don't need reflexes to play. There would be a lot of decisions you will rush because of a time limit, which is not good.
Night time should stay out of the game. Or just be limited to scripted campain missions.
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Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted February 09, 2002 12:26 AM |
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a vampire, a troll, and some others should be killed instantly if they are above ground during day. their stack should disappear permanently from your army, if you still didn't get it.
orcs, etc, should have penalties.
phoenix should be a pile of ash during night and should not be able to move.
so you could enjoy both night and day creatures in the same army
actually, i have no opinion about day/night in homm.
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what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
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Largo_LeGrande
Promising
Known Hero
from the Carribean
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posted July 29, 2002 09:01 PM |
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Pump (day/night, weather and seasons)
Ok, this is and old and good idea and topic so I pump it up to the top for those who haven't seen this. I also tell here my "ideas":
Day and Night
First, from all these ideas seen here I prefer that there are two turns for a day (day and night, not evening or morning). First every player do his day turn and then his night turn. So one week would take 14 turns to handle.
This can first sound little too long but usually no-one does the both day and night. Because between a day and night you only recover 50% of your movement (rounded to minium). Also if you use all your movement both a day and the night, next day the stats of your army are decreased. This doesn't affect undead, mechanical or elemental armies. Still this can be balanced (read below).
Then the effects. Every aligment has its "favourite" time. Order and Life = Day, Death and Chaos = Night, Nature and Might = both. That means you got morale and luck penalty/bonus debending on the favourite time. However some creatures have special for the times (off topic: creatures should have "unlimited" specials I mean that the 4 wouldn't be the limit): like vampires and trolls would die if they take a step in a sunray (read the weather above), phoenix would be turn to a pile of ash on night, orcs are very weak on days, undead should have a defend/attack penalty at day, gargoyles couldn't move at sunray (read below). It is always night in the underground.
Hmm, maybe buildings would have some kind of time rate: normal building would be ready in a day, some small buildings like taverns in ½ a day and some big buildings like 4th level building would take almost a week! Maybe you should be able to build as many buildings a turn as you like but they would be ready in different times. I really would like to see a half-builded building on the town screen.
Weather
I really thing we should have weather and seasons in this game. I post this "idea" in this topic because it somehow fits the theme
So the basic element of weather would be wind. It blows to a direction on a certain speed (*/nigh or day). The speed would get lower and the direction would change in few turns. It helps/makes worse to sail and to fly. It also moves some weather effects on the map. The effects would appear in random places (maybe you could customize weather effect and wind in the editor). After moving few turns they would shrink and disappear. There would be no wind/weather in the underground.
Here's some effects:
Clouds: they hide the sunray so the vampires can fly on the surface at day. Clouds would slowly grow to rain.
Rain: movement and morale penalty, also hides the sun, in few turns disappears. It rains snow on snow and in winter.
Storm: if clouds get against other clouds and grow very big, there would be a storm in the center of the rain. More movement and morale penalty, in combat strikes a lighting bolt on a random stack, sailing is impossible, hides from sunray, quicly disappeares.
Mist: don't know when this appears, fog of war penalty, hides from sun
There should be some nature (or death) spells that affect weather like turn/make faster/lower wind, summon effects (would be very small an last only few turn base on the casters skills and level), dispel weather, a magical fog the follows the army etc...
Seasons
I'd also like to see seasons. Maybe they would be real (3 months) or unreal (1 week). Don't know which is better. Different weather effects would appear on certain seasons. Maybe somekind of animation for trees and buildings for the seasons. In winter the shallow water would freeze and there would be more snow. Of cource, there would be somekind of "never winter night" places. On editor, you would be able to choose would the game start on fridey night february or something.
P.s. This post has many spelling mistakes but I'm very tired now.
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth, to discuss Heroes 5, go to Temple Of Ashan.
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 -Largo has spoken-
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