|
| Thread: Fan-Made Creativity Pool | |
|
admira
Promising
Famous Hero
|
posted December 29, 2010 05:02 PM |
|
Edited by admira at 17:23, 29 Dec 2010.
|
Fan-Made Creativity Pool
Arrghh I can't stand it, after read so many discussion in game mechanics and stuff, I can't stand but to open this topic.
Basically here, you can unleash all your creativity, be it some game mechanics or specific spell/creature. But of course there will be rules:
1. There is no faction idea, yes, I am not against a faction Idea (in fact I am occasionally enter one), but there are already a bunch of them and IMHO there are already too many of them.
2. Be specific: People tend to get wrong idea about a concept, by specific means the why, what, when, where and of course how. e.g: If you want hero in combat, tell in specific how the mechanism, why it will work in game.
3. Be honest: All Ideas must have something in your concern, write them as part of your idea's weakness
4. You might bring back the old ideas and make it work: Heroes in combat, tinkering with the lore of Dragon Knight to make it interesting.
5. Innovate, innovate and innovate.
So here we go. Many of these are my sum-up from my previous entries in many many many other threads, but I think I will bundle them into one on this thread. These are mine:
Type: World Map Object
Name: Neutral Faction (a.k.a Mercenaries)
Reason:
- I like the idea of neutral dwelling but since we have Control Point, I think the idea of 'mini' castle with fixed building that not related to any faction might work well
- There might be some groups of creatures that are not fit in any faction but aesthetically good and reasonable to be included in game to form "mini" faction as for neutral
- Might provide a good backup army for "Secondary" Hero
Mechanism:
- The neutral faction building always a control point
- There might themes like: Beast Elemental Conflux or Anti-Mage Compound
- Some of the Neutral Factions require quest to be flagged that may vary: sacrificing specific core unit or bring X amount or defeat a specific mini-boss (that is automatically summon upon "flagging" the dwelling)
- Some creatures may requires more than just gold. X Mana for Anti-Mage Compound creatures, or maybe traded to specific Core-class unit to get elite-class creature. e.g: Grendel (a Elite-class Creature) cost you 1 any Core unit of any faction + X Gold.
- Neutral (Mercenaries) creatures don't care much about morale thus mixing them with any creature will not cause decreasing in morale
- However the normal Faction-based creature will get the lower morale when you bring some mercenaries class creature in your army.
- The number of creatures type per Neutral Faction building varied. with 4 Cores types unit to 1 Core, 1 Elite, 1 Champion types in the building (can set them on editor).
- None of the Mercenaries unit will have upgrade version.
Weakness:
- Quest-based flagging building will have problem if the requirement bringing specific creature that nowhere to be recruited in the map or faction
- Neutral faction buildings with champion class creature might cause severe imbalance issue on the map (but might also provide interesting competition over them, and you can exclude specific creature via map editor)
Type: Game Mechanism
Name: Alternate Unit (with its own upgrade), this is not alternate upgrade
Reason:
- So many people missed alternate upgrade, some even missed the alternate unit on Heroes IV
- 28 total units per faction sound cool
- more strategic depth but more balance issue, more possibility of overriding role in the same tier
Mechanism:
- Each original Creature has 1 alternate. e.g: Skeleton alternate is Skeleton Mage, Ghoul alternate is Zombie
- There is "hate" system in which you cannot bring the alternate and the original in 1 army. Means: Skeleton hate Skeleton Mage, Ghoul hate Zombie. So whenever there are zombies or its upgrade in your army you cannot bring Ghoul and vice Versa.
- Wild ghoul in world map will never join a Hero with Zombie in his/her Army
- Even they will refuse to be together in the same castle.
- Skeleton doesn't hate Zombie so you can bring them in 1 army, that they only hate their alternate couple
- They are built in different dwelling building, but switching the building between the original and the alternate is possible
- Switching the unit is possible. Bring the Skeleton to Necropolis with Skeleton Mage Dwelling, then you will able to trade Skeleton to Skeleton Mage (or its upgrade in case you bring the Skeleton Spearsman, but it requires upgraded Skeleton Mage Dwelling). The trading cost you minor resource.
- Switching Dwelling building will cost you a sum of resource and the considered castle build turn.
- Upgraded dwelling building will be switched with alternate upgraded dwelling building and vice versa
Weakness:
- I have difficulty to find solution for external Dwelling, to separate them between Original Tier or Alternate Tier since the external Dwelling said to be Tier based
- External Dwelling issue again, we still unsure how control point and External Dwelling detailed and official Mechanism
Type: Game Mechanism
Name: Army Stack Level (a.k.a: Hero Leadership)
Reason:
- Open to many other possibility such as: Creature unlock more ability the more level they have.
- I like WoG
- I played Might & Magic: Clash of Heroes recently and found the system might work well in Heroes
Mechanism:
- Stack Creature applied to both Upgrade and Un-Upgraded. e.g: Ghoul Stack Level applied to both Ghoul and Grave Ghoul
- The stack Max level is 10
- Level 10 Stack level will unlock creature's ultimate ability might as well cosmetically change its form (both upgrade and un-upgraded version)
- Stack Creature level is Hero based. E.g: Hero A with level 10 Ghoul Stack, moving his ghoul to Hero B with level 1 Ghoul Stack, the Ghoul in Heroes B will lost its level (back to level 1) and lost its abilities gained by stack level
- Lore-wise, it is more appropriate to call it Heroes' leadership level on creature in which they command the specific creatures more efficiently
- Experience gained similar to Heroes exp, after combat, for all units participate in combat (look at Clash of Heroes).
- Each creature stack level is visible in Heroes status in a long list, every time a hero finished a combat with new creature in the army, the creature will be added to the list along with the experience gained
Weakness:
- Possible imbalance, in a long run
- Still not found a satisfaction solution for Summon unit level stack
- Might be too complicated
- with ability unlocked on specific level differently might prove to be very difficult to not override ability thus eliminating creature uniqueness
- Combine with my Alternate Unit Idea, this might enter the worst-idea in heroes due to high complexity while keeping the uniqueness on creatures.
Type: World Map Object
Name: Night Wolf Tavern (the ones that will do dirty work for you, for a price)
Reason:
- What is the Fantasy World without Thief and Rogues?
- The Thief Role in Disciples 2 is a good inspiration on this and I think it is cool
- Sabotage is rare in Heroes
Mechanism:
- There will be choice of "Services": Poison the City Well (Reducing the number of creature in the garrison randomly), Spy (Give you the detailed insight of the city and its garrison, unit that not yet recruited, building already built), Sabotage (Randomly damage or destroy wall/gate, tower not included), Intimidate (Forcefully turn the mine into Payer's possession for X random day in spite of control area) just to name few examples of possible "Services"
- All action performed not 100% working, it might failed
- Only 1 action can be performed per day
- The cost is: X gold (depend on the "Service") + (Y Gold * number of step required to take from the Object to considered castle/mines)
Weakness:
- None, currently my favorite 
I want to create it as competition but honestly, competition system seems to draw people becoming too serious about their idea, some even withdraw their ideas due to the pressure. But I'll see unto that possibility.
|
|
maken
Known Hero
Hail Hydra!
|
|
posted December 29, 2010 07:25 PM |
|
|
I sincerely disagree about being too specific about the mechanism. But that doesn't mean that a shallow proposition is good either. I guess the mid-term is better.
Quote:
Name: Neutral Faction (a.k.a Mercenaries)
Weakness:
- Quest-based flagging building will have problem if the requirement bringing specific creature that nowhere to be recruited in the map or faction
- Neutral faction buildings with champion class creature might cause severe imbalance issue on the map (but might also provide interesting competition over them, and you can exclude specific creature via map editor)
Well, the first is easily avoidable with the following guideline: keep it simple. I know you said some might have that (as in not necessarily), but if it seems like too cumbersome, so we might as well drop the complexity. Or make it able to be more complex via map editor.
About the second: yes, it really can. But isn't it the point of having a big dwelling like that? To make the player who had enough guts and brain to get such dwelling have an advantage? It might change the pace of exploration and conquering, but I think its really something like a conquerable superweapon, if you allow me to call it that way. Might as well not be such gamebreaker (and thus more of a 'conquerable weapon', not that super), depends on the creatures, costs, effort needed to conquer, etc.
Quote:
Name: Alternate Unit (with its own upgrade), this is not alternate upgrade
Weakness:
- I have difficulty to find solution for external Dwelling, to separate them between Original Tier or Alternate Tier since the external Dwelling said to be Tier based
Maybe conversion?
|
|
Aatos
Adventuring Hero
Heroic Adventurer
|
|
posted December 29, 2010 08:08 PM |
|
Edited by Aatos at 20:09, 29 Dec 2010.
|
I've made a thread with a list of my ideas some time ago.
Here is another idea I posted in the "Active Morale" thread.
Morale affects time of play and movement range.
Luck affects attack and defense.
Damage is affected only by bless and curse.
Luck
Creatures can be lucky, unlucky or neutral when attacking and when defending. If you are lucky/unlucky when you attack your attack is increased/decreased by 50%. If you are lucky/unlucky when you defend from an attack your defese is increased/decreased by 50%. If you are neutral there is no change.
So if you are lucky when you attack and your opponent is unlucky when he defends you have the biggest bonus and if you are unlucky when you attack and your opponent is lucky when he defends your opponent has the biggest bonus. If you are both lucky or unlucky the creature with the better stats benefits. If you are both neutral nothing changes.
The chance to be lucky or unlucky would be determined by your luck value which would have a range of -50 to +50 with zero being neutral and each number being 1% chance for the effect to trigger. Negetive for unlucky and positive for lucky.
Morale
Creatures can have good, bad or neutral morale every time they play. If morale is neutral there is no change. If morale is good the creature has +1 movement range in the current turn and acts sooner in the next turn because it's speed is increased by 50%. If morale is bad the creature has -1 movement range in this turn and acts later in the next turn because it's speed is decreased by 50%.
The chance to have good or bad morale would be determined by your morale value which would have a range of -50 to +50 with zero being neutral and each number being 1% chance for the effect to trigger. Negative for bad and positive for good.
Example
Peasant versus Skeleton. They both have 10 attack, 10 defense, 10 speed and 10 movement.
Luck example
Peasant hits Skeleton.
Peasant is lucky, his attack is now 15.
Skeleton is unlucky, his defense is now 5.
Peasant is unlucky, his attack is now 5.
Skeleton is lucky his defense is now 15.
Peasant is lucky, his attack is now 15.
Skeleton is lucky, his defense is now 15.
Peasant is unlucky, his attack is now 5.
Skeleton is unlucky, his defense is now 5.
The situation is the same when the Skeleton retaliates.
If any of them has no luck effect their stats stay the same.
Morale example
Peasant acts with good morale, his speed is now 15, his movement is now 11.
Peasant acts with bad morale, his speed is now 5, his movement is now 9.
Peasant acts with no morale effect, there is no change.
____________
To fail to plan is to plan to
fail.
|
|
MattII
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted December 29, 2010 11:06 PM |
|
Edited by MattII at 06:46, 07 Jan 2011.
|
Market Efficiency (Mechanism)
I don't know how this was done in H4 or H5, but in H3 your efficiency was based simply on the number of Markets you had (1=10%, 2=15%, 3=20%, etc.), which I rather disagreed agreed with, so I decided to play around with numbers, see if I could come up with anything better. In the end I came up with either:
Efficiency = 1-(T^N)
Where N is the number of Markets you have and T is a value based on the highest Hall level in your empire (T is 0.95 for Village Hall, 0.94 for Town Hall, 0.92 for City Hall and 0.9 for Capitol).
Or:
Efficiency = 1-(0.95^N)
Where N is the number of Markets you have, but where a Town with a Market counts as 2 Markets, a City 3 and your Capitol 4.
Hero Command Value (Mechanism)
Some time ago (months before the announcement of H6) I got involved in a debate, I think it was over on Celestial Heavens, about limiting the amount of creatures that could be carried by a single hero. Some were against it altogether, some want a King's Bounty style absolute limit, some wanted to reduce the number of tiers available to a starting hero. None of these suited me, I wanted a limit, but I didn't think those simplistic limits were anything like good enough. the debate eventually petered out, but I kept thinking about it for a while, and eventually came up with a formula I liked:
Max. Army Power Rating = (S*Ne-Le)*(0.9^(L-1))
Where S is your hero's Leadership skill proficiency (5 for no skill, 5.5 for Basic, 6.5 for Advanced and 8 for Expert), Ne is the minimum total experience your hero would need to level up, Le is the minimum experience your hero would have needed to get to the level he's at, and L is the level your hero is at. The penalties for exceeding this limit are a reduction in movement, and a reduction in the attack/defence bonuses provided by the hero.
Boring I know, but it's the kind of stuff I actually like doing.
|
|
admira
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted January 03, 2011 05:30 AM |
|
Edited by admira at 05:35, 03 Jan 2011.
|
Quote:
Market Efficiency
I don't know how this was done in H4 or H5, but in H3 your efficiency was based simply on the number of Markets you had (1=10%, 2=15%, 3=20%, etc.), which I rather disagreed agreed with, so I decided to play around with numbers, see if I could come up with anything better. In the end I came up with either:
Efficiency = 1-(T^N)
Where N is the number of Markets you have and T is a value based on the highest Hall level in your empire (T is 0.95 for Village Hall, 0.94 for Town Hall, 0.92 for City Hall and 0.9 for Capitol).
Or:
Efficiency = 1-(0.95^N)
Where N is the number of Markets you have, but where a Town with a Market counts as 2 Markets, a City 3 and your Capitol 4.
That some interesting formula, I agree with this completely, I think it make sense both lore-wise and system (more developed town provides greater economic value)
Quote:
Hero Command Value
Some time ago (months before the announcement of H6) I got involved in a debate, I think it was over on Celestial Heavens, about limiting the amount of creatures that could be carried by a single hero. Some were against it altogether, some want a King's Bounty style absolute limit, some wanted to reduce the number of tiers available to a starting hero. None of these suited me, I wanted a limit, but I didn't think those simplistic limits were anything like good enough. the debate eventually petered out, but I kept thinking about it for a while, and eventually came up with a formula I liked:
Max. Army Power Rating = (S*Ne-Le)*(0.9^(L-1))
Where S is your hero's Leadership skill proficiency (5 for no skill, 5.5 for Basic, 6.5 for Advanced and 8 for Expert), Ne is the minimum total experience your hero would need to level up, Le is the minimum experience your hero would have needed to get to the level he's at, and L is the level your hero is at. The penalties for exceeding this limit are a reduction in movement, and a reduction in the attack/defence bonuses provided by the hero.
Boring I know, but it's the kind of stuff I actually like doing.
Very reasonable, but large army like Necropolis growing as battle is one reason why I am difficult to accept the idea of "limiting" army in any style. Maybe the number penalty comes into mind, anyway very interesting gameplay system.
Here is some question actually:
Leadership value is stack nbased? or Creature type based?
if it is stack-based, then if the limit of bringing Crossbowman before reaching the penalty is 20 then I can separate the crossbowman into 2 stack of 20 crossbowman each and still have the full power of the stack
if it is type-based then if the limit of bringing Crossbowman before reaching penalty is 20 then I can still separate stack but the total type should be 20 to prevent penalty so 10-10 Crossbowman or 15-5 Crossbowman will do.
|
|
MattII
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted January 03, 2011 06:40 AM |
|
Edited by MattII at 07:47, 07 Jan 2011.
|
Quote:
Very reasonable, but large army like Necropolis growing as battle is one reason why I am difficult to accept the idea of "limiting" army in any style. Maybe the number penalty comes into mind, anyway very interesting gameplay system.
Well there's an easy way around that, the value only takes account of your army at the start and end of combat, any changes during combat don't effect your army until after the combat is over.
Quote:
Here is some question actually:
Leadership value is stack nbased? or Creature type based?
if it is stack-based, then if the limit of bringing Crossbowman before reaching the penalty is 20 then I can separate the crossbowman into 2 stack of 20 crossbowman each and still have the full power of the stack
if it is type-based then if the limit of bringing Crossbowman before reaching penalty is 20 then I can still separate stack but the total type should be 20 to prevent penalty so 10-10 Crossbowman or 15-5 Crossbowman will do.
Neither, the Command value doesn't work like that, it simply takes account of the summed Power Rating of all of the creatures in your army, not of each particular type.
As such, a Level 1 Knight with Basic Leadership (5500 Command Points) would be able to command without penalty either:
* 76 Conscripts (5472 Power Rating)
* 37 Conscripts and 14 Marksmen (5450 Power Rating)
* 32 Conscripts and 10 Marksmen and 4 Squires (5442 Power Rating)
* or any combination of units in which the summed Power Ratings don't exceed 5500.
And even if you do exceed the limit, the penalties won't be exceptionally harsh, at least not to begin with, and I'd add perks that would boost the limits and ease the penalties a little.
Edit:
Common (Town Building)
This is an idea I came up with a while back to either replace the Fort as the prerequisite for dwellings (as in H1-4 builds) or simply provide the secondary bonus:
When undergoing a siege, if the town has a Common you'd be allowed to recruit as many unrecruited creatures as you could given the next day's money (ie, it's taken out of your gold intake the next day), but since you'd only be recruiting them for that one battle you'd be able to get them for half their normal price.
Sub Factions (Mechanism)
This idea I came up with after playing C&C Generals: Zero Hour. Right now, we get 7 creatures per faction, but while this is good enough for some, I'd personally like to see just a bit more variability. The easiest faction to addapt the idea for would be Haven due to the fact that we wouldn't need to use too much imagination coming up with the sub-factions:
Bull Duchy - ?
Falcon Duchy - Paladin > Hussar
Greyhound Duchy - ?
Griffin Duchy - Imperial Griffin > Royal Griffin
Raven Duchy - ?
Stag Duchy - Footman & Squire > Pikeman & Halberdier
Unicorn Duchy - Marksman > Ranger
Wolf Duchy - Peasant & Conscript > Guard Hound & War Hound
|
| |
|
|
