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| Thread: H6 Forge and Academy |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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Ted
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posted October 13, 2007 03:44 PM |
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Edited by Ted at 15:45, 13 Oct 2007.
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H6 Forge and Academy
hey, in the H6 story thread, i mentioned about the idea of Academy bring 2 factions, so i made this thread, lets go with...
Academy
-basic difference: new racial, new creatures, new heroes, a more magical town
Creatures
1: Gremlins
2: Chemist (whats the name for they guys who make mercury? )
3: ?? help needed here
4: Elementals: ok, these work by summoning themselves into battle at the start of combat automatically, the type depends on terrian, and summon elementals is like ressurection for them
5: Mage: a bit beefed up
6: Genys: a bit beefed up again
7: Titan/Collous/Giant
Forge
-basic difference: old academys racial, a more "build it yourself town"
Creatures
1: Halfings: they were part of academy in and out since H1 and i think they need a little return
2: Gargoles
3: Golems
4: ?? help here (maybe roc?)
5: Manticores
6: Rakshasa Rani
7: Dragon Golem
i'm going to need a lot of help here, i am sure GL and bixie will gladily lend me a hand and help from daystar, alc, elvin and doomforge is greatly appreicated
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xerox
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posted October 13, 2007 04:44 PM |
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I dont think Mage deserves to be a level 5 creature.
Maybe make it:
1. Okey
2. Okey
3. Elemental
4. Mage
5. Genie
6. Roc
7. Titan
For the other one i have no idea.
Rocs cant be level 4 creatures.
And you will really need an Shooter/Caster here to balance things. A town cannot have a tier 1 shooter and no caster.
Maybe Archon or something would fit, i really dont know.
But you will need a shooter and caster there.
Because the Halfing is an shooter, right?
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Ted
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posted October 13, 2007 05:44 PM |
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Edited by Ted at 17:44, 13 Oct 2007.
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3. Elemental
4. Mage
5. Genie
6. Roc
fair enough, i wasnt too sure if elementals or mages should be level 5 or 4, i think your right though
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And you will really need an Shooter/Caster here to balance things. A town cannot have a tier 1 shooter and no caster.
i was thinking of the manticore having a special where he attacks with his poison (it comes out his tail) at a range, and you only use it once
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Maybe Archon or something would fit, i really dont know.
But you will need a shooter and caster there.
Because the Halfing is an shooter, right?
yeah, i'm not too sure though on the caster, however i'm sure someone will have something
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alcibiades
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posted October 13, 2007 06:01 PM |
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Hmmm ... I don't know if I'm particularly keen no this idea, but I think that if one wanted to separate the Academy creatures into two towns, it should be to strengthen the two individual themes there are currently mixed into a bit of a mess in Academy.
That means that one part should focus on magical creatures like Djinns, Rakshasa and Titans. Mages could go there also, although the whole idea of a Mage unit is a bit beside the standard approach for factions, as the Mage is also the Hero - thus, we have basically the same creature represented twice. I suppose Gremlin could also go in this batch, although it's also a bit beside the other creatures. Elementals could also go here ...
On the other hand, the other part ("Forge") should focus on the mecanical part, i.e. Golems and Gargoyles. Likely additions would include the Dragon Golem, whereas I personally don't see the Halfling or the Roc to have anything to do in this town - that will just make another miss-match town like the current Academy.
Problem with this two-town approach is that both towns will risk ending up being very narrow in their theme, i.e. all units will feel like the same (Mechanical 1, Mechanical 2, Mechanical 3, etc. - just look at the current Fortress). I think that was why they decided to mix them up, and although I personally feel it IS a bit of a mess, it might have been the lesser of two evils.
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Ted
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posted October 13, 2007 07:14 PM |
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On the other hand, the other part ("Forge") should focus on the mecanical part, i.e. Golems and Gargoyles.Likely additions would include the Dragon Golem
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whereas I personally don't see the Halfling or the Roc to have anything to do in this town - that will just make another miss-match town like the current Academy.
well halfing are the "workforce" of the Forge team, if you will, create the golems, gargoyles and titans (i'll give them repair too)
and as for the roc, well, i needed something, and i suggested the roc, and i think thats something i'll for certain change, however i need creatures to add
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mvassilev
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posted October 13, 2007 07:36 PM |
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Maybe it would be better to switch the Gremlins and Halflings.
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Ted
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posted October 13, 2007 09:50 PM |
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ok, that would make the game a bit fairer, and a bit more sense (humans with halfings?) since the gremlins were made by wizards, sounds good
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bixie
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posted October 14, 2007 10:11 AM |
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i think that the forge should have some kind of walking cannon for a shooter. or something to that extent.
HCM me if you want more ideas, i see a gnome on a pogostick working for this town.
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Mytical
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posted October 14, 2007 10:19 AM |
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Edited by Mytical at 12:14, 14 Oct 2007.
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As I have put in my 'my stuff' thread (tid number 23653)...
Here is my idea of what the magic side could look like.
Attack- Empowered Weapons - Each friendly unit's attack has a magical base. This causes a small precentage of the damage to ignore the defense of the enemy. 10% of the total damage of the stack is done automatically if the attack of the friendly unit is lower then the defense of the enmy unit. Then the rest of the damage is calculated normally. Magic Immunity does not stop this effect.
Arcane Guidence - +2 attack permantely.
Defense - Mystical Armor - Absorbs 5% of the damage if the friendly units defense is lower then the enemies unit's attack. This is total damage done.
Magic absorbtion. After calculating magic damage, friendly units regenerate 5% of the damage done.
Logistics - Renew Strength - Through arcane arts passage is smoothed for the heroes army. Terrain penalties are removed, and 10% of movement is added.
Scry - Does not expand what the army can see, instead if a enemy army can reach the army within the next round (at the place the army would stop) it gives a warning and allows a new destination to be selected.
War Machines - Illusionary War Machine. Gives access to a spell which can 'copy' any war machine (catapult, balista, or tent). One hit destroys the copy, but while it stands it acts just as whichever is copied. Only one copy can be on the field at a time, and any casting will destroy the old to make another. Mana : 20
Having a bit of trouble with more magical type skills, will return to it when I can think of more.
Now, lets talk about units.
Ok so most of the magical units are out, as they belong to other towns (like Academy), so what do we got. We got Mephits, but too many Mephits and it would be like haven (way too many human troops). So, might get away with 2 of those, but that leaves 5...
Level 1 - Water Mephit (gonna hold on stats, but should be physically weak). Any unit attacking (Non- Range) these creatures have 'slow' (both -1 speed and -1 init, cummulative) cast on them. take -1 damage do to not being solid, though magic does full (except ice/water which they are immune to). HP should be 1
Ice Mephit - (upg level 1). A bit tougher (but not much). Can cast ice bolt 1 x per combat. Any enemy attacking (again non-range) this creature has it's speed and init reduced by 2, cummulative. Again 1 hp.
Level 2 - Steam Elemental. Range units suffer a penalty to hit, and any enemy unit attacking with melee take damage as if a fire shield is on this unit. At the end of combat, if victorious, 10% of all destroyed units 'reform'.
Fog Elemental - Range units suffer a penalty to hit, and they take 10% less damage from ranged attacks. Take 15% less damage from Melee attacks. Reform. Can teleport 1x per combat.
Tier 3 - Scion (think mind flayer-like only a bit weak). Ranged Unit. Guided Retaliation (non-ranged) any time this unit retaliates, the enemy's defense is only half. The unit reads the mind of the enemy, and knows their weaknesses. Cast Vulnerability, Suffering, and Slow.
Eldrich - 1x per combat can cast AND attack. Guided Retal, Unlimited Retal. Along with above can also cast Mass Slow.
Tier 4 - Archivist. Their study of forbidden magic have gifted them with physical and magical abilities. Casts Wall of Fire, Fireball, and Summon Minion. Tougher then most units the mages have.
Arcanist - Merged with dark forces to become something not even resembling human any more. They gain 1 attack, but loose 1 defense every turn of battle. Can cast any circle 1-3 dark magic spell.
Tier 5 - Jengu (a bit altered for my uses) - Lovely female water spirits that bring good fortune and healing to those in need. Grants +1 to luck for each stack of Jengu, and can heal 3x per combat. Fully restores the top units hp. If they are destroyed in battle, enemy units recieve a -2 to luck. Immune to element water/ice.
Jenguai - Leaders of the Jengu. As above, but can cast any ice or water destructive spells. Can cast regenerate 1x per combat.
I know it's been awhile, had to think hard.
Tier 6 - Chimera (pretty much the old Chimera, only tougher to fit tier 6)
Tier 7 - keep the Titan and such
I know, it's a 'wimp out' but I had trouble creating new ones to fit.
Still needs work tho, lots and lots of work. Feel free to use any of these to help. Will work on forge like creatures next 
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Ted
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posted October 14, 2007 01:14 PM |
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1. your gonig to fast mate we need a complete creature line up before when can go into the spells yet, however they are useful, thanks!
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Level 1 - Water Mephit (gonna hold on stats, but should be physically weak). Any unit attacking (Non- Range) these creatures have 'slow' (both -1 speed and -1 init, cummulative) cast on them. take -1 damage do to not being solid, though magic does full (except ice/water which they are immune to). HP should be 1
Ice Mephit - (upg level 1). A bit tougher (but not much). Can cast ice bolt 1 x per combat. Any enemy attacking (again non-range) this creature has it's speed and init reduced by 2, cummulative. Again 1 hp.
i googled Mephit, i got an imp like creature from dungeons and dragons (we can't really do that, its got copyright most likely)
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Level 2 - Steam Elemental. Range units suffer a penalty to hit, and any enemy unit attacking with melee take damage as if a fire shield is on this unit. At the end of combat, if victorious, 10% of all destroyed units 'reform'.
Fog Elemental - Range units suffer a penalty to hit, and they take 10% less damage from ranged attacks. Take 15% less damage from Melee attacks. Reform. Can teleport 1x per combat.
Tier 3 - Scion (think mind flayer-like only a bit weak). Ranged Unit. Guided Retaliation (non-ranged) any time this unit retaliates, the enemy's defense is only half. The unit reads the mind of the enemy, and knows their weaknesses. Cast Vulnerability, Suffering, and Slow.
steam and fog are a bit like air elemental at the moment, however i see where your going here, this could be more suited for Forge, but i was thinking of one elemental being, it transforms from terrian to terrain (so one day you have 10 fire elementals, the next 10 water elementals
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Tier 4 - Archivist. Their study of forbidden magic have gifted them with physical and magical abilities. Casts Wall of Fire, Fireball, and Summon Minion. Tougher then most units the mages have.
Arcanist - Merged with dark forces to become something not even resembling human any more. They gain 1 attack, but loose 1 defense every turn of battle. Can cast any circle 1-3 dark magic spell
upgrades a bit OP, but thats not to hard to fix, gaining attack and losing defence is a new idea, and i'm sure it will work so long as it stops when defence reachs zero, and i presume drak magic is cast at basic level or more (it could be seriously OP), plus what about mage
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Tier 5 - Jengu (a bit altered for my uses) - Lovely female water spirits that bring good fortune and healing to those in need. Grants +1 to luck for each stack of Jengu, and can heal 3x per combat. Fully restores the top units hp. If they are destroyed in battle, enemy units recieve a -2 to luck. Immune to element water/ice.
Jenguai - Leaders of the Jengu. As above, but can cast any ice or water destructive spells. Can cast regenerate 1x per combat.
i think we have enough casters here already, and i'm a bit unsure what a Jengu is google doesn't help much either
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Tier 6 - Chimera (pretty much the old Chimera, only tougher to fit tier 6)
Tier 7 - keep the Titan and such
ok, i think its chimera for forge, they make the creatures, they made the gremlins, the gargoyles, golems, chimera, heck they made everything
good ideas though
@bixie, i need your help
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Mytical
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posted October 14, 2007 01:25 PM |
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Edited by Mytical at 13:26, 14 Oct 2007.
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Arcanist - Merged with dark forces to become something not even resembling human any more. They gain 1 attack, but loose 1 defense every turn of battle. Can cast any circle 1-3 dark magic spell
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Stop when def is 0. And yes, they would cast dark spells with no 'skill' levels. Not even basic. As to why not mage, well..the heroes are mages, so I thought it would be interesting to have something different. As for the last two, I honestly ran into a wall and couldn't think of anything better. As for Mephit, could use the idea, just change the name. I was going for a common theme (casters for the most part) with the creatures. Physically weak, but make up for it by spells. Anyhow . These are just suggestions, so toss out or change or disregard anything ya don't like .
Now I am thinking you don't want a lot of similar names for forge (ie mech that or machine this). I am working on unique creatures and can (if I can find them) import a mech town I already posted in CH. Doubt I can find that one though, most of my ideas are buried deep there hehe. Will put em here when I get done, again for you to use/discard/ignore/change/whatever.
BTW, what do you think of the new skills? Too much? Too chaotic? 
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Ted
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posted October 14, 2007 01:31 PM |
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thanks for the help, your ideas where really helpful and a bit eye opening
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BTW, what do you think of the new skills? Too much? Too chaotic?
their quite good, however the war machines one is a bit usnessicary
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Mytical
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posted October 15, 2007 07:10 AM |
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Edited by Mytical at 07:36, 15 Oct 2007.
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Ok for the forge town, I don't think artificer is the right way to go. Simple reasoning is that they would not be interested in making magical gadgets any more. Spell schools should probably also be replaced by some non-magical version. (Not anti-magic, but technological versions of the spells and spell schools). Just don't ask me what would replace artificer .. yet.
Also, I think the things making up their units would be tough, but have a chance of 'malfunctioning'. They would be physically superior to any other creatures of the same tier. Here are some alternatives to the ideas already suggested. Note : if the original has something like 'flying' unless specified the upgrades do also. (just to save me some typing)
Drone : Out of combat it increases the distance a hero can see, but does not provide any additional information (like exact number of creatures, ect). Inside of combat it has a special ability. Analyze : The next attack done against the target of this ability is done against 1/2 the targets defense. However, activating this reduces init of the drone stack to 3. Flying
Security Drone : Provides additional distance a hero can see. Inside combat has Analyze and Static Charge (2x per combat per stack). Analyze only reduces the SD stack by 2. Static Charge does no damage but reduces the init of its target by 20% until the target takes damage. Flying.
Medical Drone : (alt upgrade for drone) Does not give additional sight abilities at all. Can 'repair' units in the field (acts like a animate dead type ability with all penalties, but repaired units do last past combat). However it is physically inferior to the security drone. Does come with Analyze. No limit to how many times it can 'repair', however it should be minimal ammount and need a lot of units to be effective. Flying.
Tier 2 : Crawlers - Out of combat, provides a very small boost to distance a hero can travel. In combat, They are basic 'tank' units that do not trigger mindfields and take no damage from moats or such. They are sort of fast for their tier both speed and init.
Burrowers - Tougher and they can bypass castle walls. (They 'dig' under it and surface on the other side). In addition the first attack in combat is no retal.
Tunnelers - A little weaker then burrowers. They can do damage to castle walls however. They can not bypass them. Do additional damage with attacks, and double to catapults or balista.
Tier 3: Hoppers - Technically these creatures do not fly, they 'hop' but as they can cover great distance with their hops it is a moot point. They have an ability : Death from above. This is an activated ability, works almost like dive bomb. However, the hoppers take 10% of the damage they inflict with this move.
Gliders : Flying. Special ability : Strafe. Allows them to do damage in an area, and receive no retal. Can only be done a certain ammount of times per combat. The area of effect has to be a straight line (either from right to left or top to bottom). Friendly units caught in the fire will take damage. They do not get the Death From Above ability however.
Winged Hoppers : Flying. (these actually fly). They gain a swarm ability..for every so many of them they gain aditional damage(beyond what they would normally recieve). However, the chance of malfunctioning is a bit higher also.
Hmm have to work on more. The main idea is that the creatures also provide out of combat specials, since they are really physically tough their in combat 'specials' are not so hot. Creature numbers and brute force would be the main focus.
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Ted
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posted October 15, 2007 05:39 PM |
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Edited by Ted at 17:48, 15 Oct 2007.
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thanks, i think this will be some really good factions some day, and maybe we can mod them into H5, but i think GL needs to post here and bixie needs to too
EDIT
i'll also update the masterpost soon, i think they need clearer picture of the fractions we are doing
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GenieLord
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posted October 16, 2007 12:18 PM |
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I got the idea. It is very clear and good. Academy has two sides; magical and technological. Saperating them sounds pretty good to me, since they are two different things, some would call them opposite. On the other hand, Academy is a quite "messy" town. It's good as an one unique town, different from the others. I don't know how great will it be to have two, but I'm willing to give it a shot.
Since Academy represents both magical and technological sides, maybe we should find other name for the magical town? I don't have idea right now, but I'll think about it.
Gremlins: Technological
On Heroes 5, these are the poor workers of the Academy industry. Sounds like they should be in the technological side. Any Forge needs this kind of basic workers, so they will assist to create weapons, armors, etc.
Gargoyles: Magical
These are statused, animated by magics. Just according to that, they should be in the magical side.
Golems: Technological
It's quite obvious here. The fact that they are mechanical creatures tells everything. On Heroes 5, they are made by technology, so they should be in the Forge.
Mages: Split
We have a very compleceted question here. Mages are magical, but on Academy, they are also a kind of instructors, guides and mostly, rullers of the rest of the creatures. Academy is mainly based on them. I think that we should have two kinds of Mages; Sorcerer (magical) and Sage (technological).
Elementals: Out
In my opinion, Elementals should stay completely neutral. Putting them as a small part of a faction ruins the entire concept. They can be summoned by magic, but let's not put them inside the faction.
My suggestion for Forge:
1. Gremlin
2. Alchemist
3. Golems
4. Sage
5. Steam Creature
6. Rakshasa
7. I have no idea, but I definitely don't want to see the Golem Dragon here.
The Magical Academy can have Titans, Genies, Sorcerers, Gargoyles and Halfings/Hobbits.
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xerox
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posted October 16, 2007 06:32 PM |
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I never undestood what Rakshasas have to do with an forge/future/tech town.
I think they should be in the magic town.
Golems are almost the same thing as Gargolytes.
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Ted
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posted October 16, 2007 07:07 PM |
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I got the idea. It is very clear and good. Academy has two sides; magical and technological. Saperating them sounds pretty good to me, since they are two different things, some would call them opposite. On the other hand, Academy is a quite "messy" town. It's good as an one unique town, different from the others. I don't know how great will it be to have two, but I'm willing to give it a shot.
i agree here, thats why i really made this town, academy in H5 is a bit to broad, however making it two factions will be a bit difficult
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Since Academy represents both magical and technological sides, maybe we should find other name for the magical town? I don't have idea right now, but I'll think about it.
good idea, any suggestions?
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Gremlins: Technological
On Heroes 5, these are the poor workers of the Academy industry. Sounds like they should be in the technological side. Any Forge needs this kind of basic workers, so they will assist to create weapons, armors, etc.
yeah, i'm changeing the hobbits and gremlins over now, and i'll edit the masterpost with our ideas
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Gargoyles: Magical
These are statused, animated by magics. Just according to that, they should be in the magical side.
i can see where your comnig from here, and titans are made from the same material as gragoyles, and their on academy, so that makes sense
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Golems: Technological
It's quite obvious here. The fact that they are mechanical creatures tells everything. On Heroes 5, they are made by technology, so they should be in the Forge.
agreed
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Mages: Split
We have a very compleceted question here. Mages are magical, but on Academy, they are also a kind of instructors, guides and mostly, rullers of the rest of the creatures. Academy is mainly based on them. I think that we should have two kinds of Mages; Sorcerer (magical) and Sage (technological).
good idea, i was going for that in Forge anyway, but i couldn't remeber that name
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Elementals: Out
In my opinion, Elementals should stay completely neutral. Putting them as a small part of a faction ruins the entire concept. They can be summoned by magic, but let's not put them inside the faction.
i see, perhaps more thought about this is needed, we'll come back to this later
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My suggestion for Forge:
1. Gremlin
2. Alchemist
3. Golems
4. Sage
5. Steam Creature
6. Rakshasa
7. I have no idea, but I definitely don't want to see the Golem Dragon here.
well rakshasa's don't really belong, but i'm sure there is a good creature that fills our criteria for a level 6 monster somewhere, and i rather like the dragon golem, maybe more thought is needed here also
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The Magical Academy can have Titans, Genies, Sorcerers, Gargoyles and Halfings/Hobbits.
ok, although we still need another 2 creatures here, but that will do for the time being
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I never undestood what Rakshasas have to do with an forge/future/tech town.I think they should be in the magic town.
yeah, i totally agree
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Golems are almost the same thing as Gargolytes.
well, its a bit weird here, accoring to AOH, golems are the same as titans only on a much larger scale, so what ever side one goes on, the other should go on to, but their are no similiariltys with gargoyles
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Mytical
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posted October 17, 2007 08:15 AM |
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Mage town name suggestions. (Sorry to keep posting here and intruding  ). Arcanum. Sanctum (though that is sort of a havenish name). Archipello (I belive I spelled it wrong tho). Could go the cloud (flying/floating ect) way also. I am sure there are some more mystical or magical names they could be called.
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Ted
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posted October 17, 2007 05:11 PM |
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don't worry mythical, i don't mind it here when you post, good names, although Sanctrum is a bit too haven, but i need creatures before anything else so lets keep going
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bixie
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posted October 17, 2007 05:39 PM |
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for a level 2 and 3 for the academy, i would suggest either students, or lesser spirits of the nether, or some kind of puzzle of some kind.
for the Forge, i would avoid Sages, as they seem a bit too... magical. you need a unit that is used to getting its fingers dirty in making these machines. my advice is, therefore, to either take a engineer or an alchemist, who will by and large fill the same roles. for a Level 6 or level 5 for forge, a speedy little flying machine would fit the role nicely.
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