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LordGodric
Known Hero
The Griffin Rider
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posted January 17, 2011 05:04 PM |
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Casualty Count
Casualty count and HP
Which is needed to make someone stopping fighting? Kill them? Break multiple bones? Make them unconscious due a blow or blood lost? And which of those injuries could eventually cause death?
A swordman couldn’t hold his blade anymore if he had broken 2 or 3 fingers and otherwise this wouldn’t put in risk his life.
HP shouldn’t represent the life of the creatures. “If it runs out it’s dead, period”. No, it should represent how much injury the unit can take before becoming unable to continue fighting. In a stack with many swordman, one can be beheaded, other could take a slash in the torso and bleed to die, but another could just be knocked out by a good ol’ cross-hook.
So, how to bring it on the game?
Simple, when units runs out of HP they are out of the combat, but not every single of them is dead, some might be just gravely wounded. At the end of the combat, the units who didn’t die should return to the hero army.
The amount of killed units should depend on the kind of damage who was dealt to it.
A melee strike would kill 60%-80%.
A ranged strike would kill 55%-75%
A magical strike or a spell would kill 65%-90%.
The percentage would be rolled in the moment of the strike.
For example:
A Ranger hero has 50 pixies, 20 Blade Dancers and 20 Hunters. He faces a Necromancer who has 40 Skeletons Archers and 20 Zombies.
The ranger manages to win.
So count the losses.
The zombies hit the pixies and ‘disabled’ 20 of them. Let’s say the effectiveness of the attack was 70%, so in fact, only 14 Pixies were killed, the other 6 returns to the army after the end of the combat.
The Skeleton Archers hit the Blade Dancers and ‘disabled’ 5 elves. And the effectiveness was 60%, so only 3 died actually. The surviving 2 return after the combat.
The necromancer used a destructive spell on the Hunters, ‘disabling’ 10. Let’s say it was very successful, and the effectiveness was 90%, so 9 of them died, and just a Hunter survived.
Of course the count would be very more complex in a larger battle when the same stack would be stroked many times by different units and different kinds of attack.
In this context the Healing tent would have a larger role, not only healing the first unit of the stack, but “resurrecting” units, I mean, putting the units that were just disabled, severely injured, but not killed back in the fight.
I would be necessary come back with the healing skill, as a secondary skill, not as a perk in the War Machine skill. Of course I don’t know, actually how the skills will be managed in MMH6, so I’m just supposing they will adopt something near the HoMM5 system.
And, of course this would be valid only to living creatures. Creatures like Undeads or Golens fight until they are destroyed, no matter how “injured” they are. This point should be balanced somehow. For the undeads, no problem, they have necromancy, and bring some creatures from the enemy, and if necessary the necromancy could be made more effective. For golens, elementals and etc… well, I really don’t know, maybe increasing their weekly growth?
So… comments, criticizes, complains, congratulations, yays, nays, likes, dislikes, ideias, improvments…?
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted January 17, 2011 07:53 PM |
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Too complex, it'd only work on living units, and most of them that survived would probably die of infection later.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted January 17, 2011 07:58 PM |
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Quote:
A melee strike would kill 60%-80%.
A ranged strike would kill 55%-75%
A magical strike or a spell would kill 65%-90%.
I don't think more units would survive a ranged attack, and still be not able to fight, than in melee!!! Example: A unit can either be attacked by swordsmen or bowmen. If the bowmen attacks, how many options are there, disabling the unit from fighting, but not killing it? And how many are there with a sword? I think the second would be far more...
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seddy
Known Hero
Spinner of delicious cupcakes
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posted January 17, 2011 08:01 PM |
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Methinks someone has been playing Might and Magic: Heroes Kingdom (were only 30% of units lost in combat are permanently lost).
Personally, I am against this. It adds another complex layer (plus uncertanity/randomness) and I wonder how it would work with re-recruiting heroes/surrender/retreat...
I think realistic slaying has it's place, but for the simplicity of balance and planning in the game, I don't think that this is something that should be implemented.
Plus, if you actually win a battle in reality, you have got some guys that go around poking the corpses to make sure everyone is dead. So unless the hero flees (with wounded troops, which would be even less realistic) I don't think that it fits gameplay or realism.
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evinin
Supreme Hero
Servant of Asha
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posted January 18, 2011 04:53 PM |
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I really dislike this idea. The creatures are killed and that's it. 
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted January 20, 2011 07:50 AM |
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Quote:
I really dislike this idea. The creatures are killed and that's it.
Agree. Sorry man, but if it's dead, it's dead.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Borton
Hired Hero
A lemming in my pocket
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posted January 21, 2011 01:28 AM |
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Nice idea, but not for this game. I think it suits so much better in role games. If you wanted to use it in HOMM I think that every single creature should be very important, and then losing even a couple of pixies should represent a huge loss. In other words, if you created a HOMM similar to Commandos: Behind enemy lines, or to Swat 2, then it would be a gorgeous idea (at least to my taste)
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The HOMM4 vampire is Dave Gahan!!!
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moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted January 22, 2011 05:56 AM |
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Hmm, I actually like this idea. But probably only if it also applies to enemy troops and you can actually capture the surviving members of your defeated opponents, and then you decide wether you want them killed off (exp) or enslaved (more income?) or recruited (higher recruitment cost?).
I actually reasoned something like this for an Overlord racial, slavery, adding to Dungeon's mixed nature of troops. But it would be quite fun if it applied in general. Or just for Dungeon 
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LordGodric
Known Hero
The Griffin Rider
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posted January 23, 2011 01:27 AM |
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Ok, maybe it's not a good ideia for a HoMM game, but...
Don't anyone more think that it's anoying that the healing tent can heal just one creature in the stack? I mean, at any time in a stack X are ok, Y are dead and just 1 is injured, no matter how much X and/or Y amount is large...
Anyways...
Quote:
Hmm, I actually like this idea. But probably only if it also applies to enemy troops and you can actually capture the surviving members of your defeated opponents, and then you decide wether you want them killed off (exp) or enslaved (more income?) or recruited (higher recruitment cost?).
I thought at first that the losing army would have all of it's creatures killed, by the winning army, that would make sure the enemy is dead or would die due blood loss or something like that because of the long time not being healed, and maybe just very few would manage to escape, fleing to unknow places, but never returnig to the army... well maybe they may return as 'new' recruits, but just lorewise...
But now, with that thing about three advanced classes, life path, death path and neutral path, maybe the army don't kill imediatly the survivers, and the hero could choose if the army slay them (give 'points' to death path), enprision them (neutral path) or have mercy let them go because the hero don't kill in cold blood/respect the life above all/think they were honored and worth oponents(life path)....
nah!
just dreaming a bit...
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Borton
Hired Hero
A lemming in my pocket
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posted January 23, 2011 03:19 AM |
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I really like the way you think, but my advice is that you shouldn't take those aspects from the game in such a realistic way. Think about this: How come can a whole army fit in a ship? Or how can titans and dragons enter underground levels? Take it easy and focus your meditation on some other features that could really be improved. I insist: I like those ideas, specially that one about having the option to slaughter survivors, jail them or let them go.
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The HOMM4 vampire is Dave Gahan!!!
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