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| Thread: How are all the games connected? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · NEXT» |
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madshj
Famous Hero
Minotaur Lord
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posted January 29, 2011 06:25 AM |
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How are all the games connected?
Okay.. So I've been searching now, for what is quite a while, without finding any answers, or getting more knowledge on said subject. I've found timelines on the first 4 games, and I've found a timeline for the fifth installment. Still I do not at all seem to understand how to connect the dots. Could anyone please be so kind to explain it to me?
I would really appreciate if someone would spend their time on telling me, because I'm all lost.
I get that H5 is the first of everything, because the timeline indicates, when the different factions, such as the Necromancers of Deyja, came.
Though by that timeline we count in YSD
Whereas by the other games by BS and AS
Could somebody tell me the exact timeline of all the games? + an explanation of how the different continents are related to each other, in the history(continents, being Enroth, Erathia and Ashan) Please  ?
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vicheron
Known Hero
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posted January 29, 2011 06:41 AM |
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Edited by vicheron at 07:40, 29 Jan 2011.
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Heroes 1 - 4 are set in the same universe, which also includes everything that's in Might and Magic 1 - 9, except for the Heroes 4 expansions I think.
Heroes 1 - 3 and Might and Magic 6 - 8 take place on a planet called Enroth.
Heroes 1 - 2 and M&M 6 take place on a continent also named Enroth. Heroes 1 is about how Morglin Ironfist conquers the continent of Enroth. Heroes 2 is about a civil war between Morglin's two sons, Roland and Archibald, over control of Enroth, Roland wins. M&M 6 is about a demon invasion that captured Roland.
Heroes 3 takes place on another continent called Antagarich and it's about an invasion of Erathia by Eofol and Nighon after the assassination of Erathia's King Gryphonheart, whose daughter is married to Roland Ironfist of Enroth.
Heroes 4 begins with the destruction of Enroth and it's about refugees who fled to a new world called Axeoth.
Heroes 5 starts a whole new universe and pretty much ignores all the stuff that's in Heroes 1 - 4.
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted January 29, 2011 09:08 AM |
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I thought the planet was named colony.
Also, one can somehow see that the developers had several ideas going which many possible were never followed through, at least it's indicated in M&M7 where Archibald is exiled, that it's not very likely he'll stay in exile, yet as far as I know, one never hears from him again.
Edit: Also all that stuff about the ancients that never seem to get ressolved...
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madshj
Famous Hero
Minotaur Lord
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posted January 29, 2011 05:54 PM |
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Thanks^^ Quite confusing 
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted January 29, 2011 05:58 PM |
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How is that?
Is it not more or less the same main plot every time (find the ancients, cause they're totally awesome, so you'll wanna be friends with them) and then various sub plots on different planets that are either related to the ancients (corak & shelton and the kreegan invasion) or independent of the ancients (pretty much every heroes plot and its consequences spilled onto the might & magic series)?
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vicheron
Known Hero
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posted January 29, 2011 11:38 PM |
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Edited by vicheron at 23:39, 29 Jan 2011.
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Plenty of things got resolved. Might and Magic 1 through 5 pretty much tells one story that gets resolved in M&M 5.
The story in Might and Magic 6 and 7 tied in with Heroes 1, 2 and 3, and it was supposed to get resolved in Armageddon's Blade with the introduction of the Forge town but some very vocal and prissy fans forced NWC to change everything.
Might and Magic 8 was supposed to begin a new story that begins on the continent of Jadame but due to various factors, 3DO's financial troubles, new development staff, etc., Heroes 4 started with a brand new world.
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted January 30, 2011 10:09 AM |
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Quote:
Plenty of things got resolved. Might and Magic 1 through 5 pretty much tells one story that gets resolved in M&M 5.
The story in Might and Magic 6 and 7 tied in with Heroes 1, 2 and 3, and it was supposed to get resolved in Armageddon's Blade with the introduction of the Forge town but some very vocal and prissy fans forced NWC to change everything.
Might and Magic 8 was supposed to begin a new story that begins on the continent of Jadame but due to various factors, 3DO's financial troubles, new development staff, etc., Heroes 4 started with a brand new world.
Thank the Gods for those very vocal and prissy fans! They saved the entire franchise from comitting suicide when it was at its highest glory! 
And to make a long story short and continue from the last post: ...And so the story of the M&M and HoMM saga became such a FUBAR mess, that Ubisoft had no choice than to throw it all in the recycle bin and start anew.
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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vicheron
Known Hero
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posted January 30, 2011 10:46 AM |
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Quote:
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Plenty of things got resolved. Might and Magic 1 through 5 pretty much tells one story that gets resolved in M&M 5.
The story in Might and Magic 6 and 7 tied in with Heroes 1, 2 and 3, and it was supposed to get resolved in Armageddon's Blade with the introduction of the Forge town but some very vocal and prissy fans forced NWC to change everything.
Might and Magic 8 was supposed to begin a new story that begins on the continent of Jadame but due to various factors, 3DO's financial troubles, new development staff, etc., Heroes 4 started with a brand new world.
Thank the Gods for those very vocal and prissy fans! They saved the entire franchise from comitting suicide when it was at its highest glory!
Yes, forcing the developers to throw away months of hard work based on a few grainy screenshots so that they had to quickly cobble together a quick fix just to meet the deadline, which also resulted in budgetary and advertising issues, sure helped the franchise.
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And to make a long story short and continue from the last post: ...And so the story of the M&M and HoMM saga became such a FUBAR mess, that Ubisoft had no choice than to throw it all in the recycle bin and start anew.
Too bad they replaced it with generic fantasy crap that ripped off so much stuff from Warhammer that they almost go sued.
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted January 30, 2011 11:15 AM |
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Yes, forcing the developers to throw away months of hard work based on a few grainy screenshots so that they had to quickly cobble together a quick fix just to meet the deadline, which also resulted in budgetary and advertising issues, sure helped the franchise.
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And to make a long story short and continue from the last post: ...And so the story of the M&M and HoMM saga became such a FUBAR mess, that Ubisoft had no choice than to throw it all in the recycle bin and start anew.
Too bad they replaced it with generic fantasy crap that ripped off so much stuff from Warhammer that they almost go sued.
It's their fault for wanting to make a goblins with lazer cannons faction, in the first place. If they had any common sense in them, they would have chosen to avoid this path from the first place. I'm 100% sure that if the H3 had indeed included the Forge, it would not be as popular as it is today, and would have now even less fans. Probably just those that Ubisoft brought along.
Well, that H5 storyline is mediocre and certain units ripped from warhammer, isn't an excuse to compliment the mess that the previous story became. Besides, if you want to bring stealing units from other games into this, i do have a few "good" words to say for NWC's HoMM games too. You sure you wanna go there?
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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vicheron
Known Hero
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posted January 30, 2011 09:58 PM |
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Edited by vicheron at 22:00, 30 Jan 2011.
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It's their fault for wanting to make a goblins with lazer cannons faction, in the first place. If they had any common sense in them, they would have chosen to avoid this path from the first place. I'm 100% sure that if the H3 had indeed included the Forge, it would not be as popular as it is today, and would have now even less fans. Probably just those that Ubisoft brought along.
Right, because you have amazing psychic powers that can predict things that never happened.
Do you have any evidence to back up your assumption? Do you have the sales figures for Heroes 3 and the expansions? How do you know that Heroes 3 is popular because of the expansions and not the original game? How do you know that people would not have liked the Forge? How do you know that even if people didn't like the Forge, they would suddenly hate the original game? The only evidence for your assumption is that you don't like the Forge.
On the other hand, Might and Magic had sci-fi elements for 14 years before they decided to add it into Heroes and that didn't hurt the franchise at all. Wizardry also had a sci-fi fantasy mix and it was doing fine too. Heck, the new King's Bounty has some steampunk and sci-fi elements and it's doing fine too. In fact, despite its much smaller budget, a lot of people like it more than Heroes 5.
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Well, that H5 storyline is mediocre and certain units ripped from warhammer, isn't an excuse to compliment the mess that the previous story became. Besides, if you want to bring stealing units from other games into this, i do have a few "good" words to say for NWC's HoMM games too. You sure you wanna go there?
The previous story became a mess for two reasons. The first reason was that they had to get rid of the Forge town and the second was that 3DO was going bankrupt. However, despite that, Heroes 4 made a reasonably good new start. They could have simply ignored the Heroes 4 expansions, which were pointless diversions and returned to the stories of the original campaigns.
NWC may have taken inspiration from other fantasies but they didn't do a whole sale rip off of another franchise's artistic style and themes.
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted January 30, 2011 10:21 PM |
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Exactly, I got amazing psychic powers and can predict things that never happened, it's called common sense. Nobody likes stuff like that. They may have worked for them in the 80s, but in 1999 it would be a total and absolute failure, that's why so many fans complained. So many in fact, that they had to change it. And there is your proof, the majority of players hated it before it even got out. Dare you say that all these fans were wrong? Well, then you're in the minority this time. For once the community, did the right thing.
Inspired from other fantasies then? Why, they were photocopying D&D's creatures. From the first Heroes' pigfaced Orcs to a really lot of the H3's creatures. Only in H4 did they try to bring some originality, and they blatantly failed. Even some of the simple, generic and classic designs were done according to some old Monster Manuals.
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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vicheron
Known Hero
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posted January 30, 2011 10:39 PM |
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Edited by vicheron at 22:49, 30 Jan 2011.
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Exactly, I got amazing psychic powers and can predict things that never happened, it's called common sense. Nobody likes stuff like that. They may have worked for them in the 80s, but in 1999 it would be a total and absolute failure, that's why so many fans complained. So many in fact, that they had to change it. And there is your proof, the majority of players hated it before it even got out. Dare you say that all these fans were wrong? Well, then you're in the minority this time. For once the community, did the right thing.
Might and Magic still worked. Wizardry worked too and if Sir-Tech hadn't made a lot of bad management choices, similar to 3DO, making crappy mass marketed games while ignoring the games that made them popular, the series might still be around. Ultima was still around too. The new King's Bounty works too despite having some sci-fi elements. World of Warcraft is also including more steampunk elements that are getting awfully close to science fiction. Warhammer has plenty of sci-fi elements too with all that genetic engineering and the Old Ones. There's also Warhammer 40K, which does the opposite with a sci-fi setting with a ton of fantasy elements. By your logic, none of that should have worked.
You're also wrong about how many people complained. They only got a small number of complaints, but one of them was a death threat.
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Inspired from other fantasies then? Why, they were photocopying D&D's creatures. From the first Heroes' pigfaced Orcs to a really lot of the H3's creatures. Only in H4 did they try to bring some originality, and they blatantly failed. Even some of the simple, generic and classic designs were done according to some old Monster Manuals.
How about some evidence to back up your claim.
Also, you're forgetting that Heroes wasn't the first game NWC made. They also made King's Bounty and M&M came out in 1986.
Plus you seemed to have forgotten about your claim that the original story was "a mess," another claim without evidence.
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foxxxer
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 30, 2011 10:54 PM |
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I'm 100% sure that if the H3 had indeed included the Forge, it would not be as popular as it is today, and would have now even less fans. Probably just those that Ubisoft brought along.
I'm agreed with Kodial. When 3DO showed artworks of the laser goblin and the tank-lady every fan was shocked in 1999. There was a big critic from the magazines and the developers were bended.
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted January 30, 2011 11:13 PM |
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Both Ultima and M&M were famous in the 80s and early 90s were such settings could work. Warhammer kept its fantasy setting different from the scifi one which is set in the future. If Warhammer Fantasy had any scifi elements to it, they weren't so damned obvious as 3DO was going to make it with introducing the Forge. King's Bounty's newest games do not have the same kind of scifi elements. Steampunk is a genre of its own and blends well with fantasy. Almost every fantasy game has steampunk elements.
I won't look around for every monster they copied, cause they were a lot. But I'll give you the brightest examples:
Orc H1 and H2 ...And then it just turned green in H3, as D&D's Orc turned green too.
Gorgon H3 A misconception by TSR's part and yet, they copied it...
Basilisk H3
Harpy H3
Lizardmen H3 ...Those were stolen from Warhammer, even the architecture is similar.
Not to mention the many D&D exclusive monsters making an appearance such as Beholder, Gnoll, Fairy Dragon etc.
Anyway, this wasn't about me running out of arguments, you're the one who brought up Ubisoft stealing units from Warhammer and so I replied to you. Ofcourse, I insist in my claim that the story was a mess, worlds were being destroyed here and there with different characters of the same name running around, who in their right mind would continue this? Certainly not Ubisoft.
So yeah, Ubi's story was mediocre at best, but it was coherent.
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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vicheron
Known Hero
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posted January 30, 2011 11:50 PM |
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Edited by vicheron at 03:31, 31 Jan 2011.
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Quote:
Both Ultima and M&M were famous in the 80s and early 90s were such settings could work. Warhammer kept its fantasy setting different from the scifi one which is set in the future. If Warhammer Fantasy had any scifi elements to it, they weren't so damned obvious as 3DO was going to make it with introducing the Forge. King's Bounty's newest games do not have the same kind of scifi elements. Steampunk is a genre of its own and blends well with fantasy. Almost every fantasy game has steampunk elements.
M&M 6 and 7 were successful, they sold well and had great reviews despite being released in 1998 and 1999. Wizardry 8 was released in 2001, it had great reviews and sold quite well too, unfortunately, it wasn't enough to save Sir-Tech.
Warhammer Fantasy does have sci-fi elements. There's a ton of stuff involving genetic modification.
Steampunk is sci-fi. In fact, King's Bounty and World of Warcraft are going beyond steampunk into more high tech sci-fi. Heck, you could get a rocket as a mount in WoW and they have homing missiles. That's not exactly steampunk.
Also, as I mentioned before, there are sci-fi series with fantasy elements like Warhammer 40K. You could include Star Wars too. Why is it that it's OK for sci-fi to have magic but not OK for fantasy to have sci-fi?
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I won't look around for every monster they copied, cause they were a lot. But I'll give you the brightest examples:
Orc H1 and H2 ...And then it just turned green in H3, as D&D's Orc turned green too.
Gorgon H3 A misconception by TSR's part and yet, they copied it...
Basilisk H3
Harpy H3
Lizardmen H3 ...Those were stolen from Warhammer, even the architecture is similar.
Not to mention the many D&D exclusive monsters making an appearance such as Beholder, Gnoll, Fairy Dragon etc.
Anyway, this wasn't about me running out of arguments, you're the one who brought up Ubisoft stealing units from Warhammer and so I replied to you. Ofcourse, I insist in my claim that the story was a mess, worlds were being destroyed here and there with different characters of the same name running around, who in their right mind would continue this? Certainly not Ubisoft.
So yeah, Ubi's story was mediocre at best, but it was coherent.
A lot of those are just generic fantasy ideas that's been around for a long time.
Orcs are based on Tolkien's descriptions.
Basilisks and Harpies are from Greek mythology and have been around for more than two thousand years.
17th century depiction of a basilisk:
17th century depiction of a harpy:
Lizardman architecture from Warhammer is based on South American architecture like this Aztec pyramid:
D&D didn't invent Gnolls either, they only came up with the name. It's based on a creature called Cynocephali from Greek mythology.
NWC did however, copy Gorgons and Beholders. However, the Beholder in Heroes is more of a combination of the beholder and the grell from D&D. Regardless, NWC didn't just do a whole sale rip off of another fantasy series like Nival and Ubisoft.
As for the story, only one world was destroyed with no warning or reason and there are like three characters with the same name and they don't even play that big of a role.
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted January 30, 2011 11:53 PM |
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I'm agreed with Kodial. When 3DO showed artworks of the laser goblin and the tank-lady every fan was shocked in 1999. There was a big critic from the magazines and the developers were bended.
You're forgetting the death threats aimed at Greg Fulton that lead to the removal of the Forge, the removal of half of Armaggedon's Blade content a few weeks before its release date, the hasted creation of the crappy Conflux and finally ... Greg Fulton's resignation.
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Wckey
Famous Hero
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posted January 31, 2011 12:46 AM |
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Edited by Wckey at 00:54, 31 Jan 2011.
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I think Forge wasn't a bad idea. The concept was OK and the town was wonderfull. Never care about the story, but it also could be nice. The only problem I have with forge are the creatures. They pick up some random creatures, put guns on them and said they're new ones.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I read somewhere that the naga Concept was actually a leaked concept, it wasn't "oficialy" released.
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I'm 100% sure that if the H3 had indeed included the Forge, it would not be as popular as it is today, and would have now even less fans. Probably just those that Ubisoft brought along.
I think it would have as much fans as it has now, but instead of criticising Conflux fans would criticise Forge. The major diference is that Forge wouldn't be as popular as it is today 
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Come back soon, Elvin!
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted January 31, 2011 12:58 AM |
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Edited by Cepheus at 00:58, 31 Jan 2011.
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in the 80s and early 90s were such settings could work
Without taking sides, I just want to say I think this is a pretty narrow-minded statement. Any concept can work, no matter when, if executed in the right way, and if it's an unorthodox concept - all the better. MM1-8 and Wizardry 6-8 handled sci-fi and fantasy blendings properly, H3 you could of course debate.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted January 31, 2011 02:35 AM |
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The Kreegans were supposed to be high-tech aliens weren't they?
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vicheron
Known Hero
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posted January 31, 2011 03:17 AM |
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I'm 100% sure that if the H3 had indeed included the Forge, it would not be as popular as it is today, and would have now even less fans. Probably just those that Ubisoft brought along.
I think it would have as much fans as it has now, but instead of criticising Conflux fans would criticise Forge. The major diference is that Forge wouldn't be as popular as it is today
But NWC had much more time to work on the Forge so even if people hated the story and concept behind the faction, it probably would have been much better balanced than the Conflux. In fact, considering how they were planning to add the Conflux in the second expansion, getting rid of the Forge ended up hurting the Conflux too since instead of getting several extra months to design and test the Conflux, they had to build the whole faction at the last minute for Armageddon's Blade.
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