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| Thread: Perceptions |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 22, 2011 03:01 PM |
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Perceptions
Perceptions.. One of the things that influence our daily life the most yet seem to be understood or recognized the least. Our actions, emotions, state of mind, outward appearance, social cycle, beliefs or possessions create around us a sphere of influence that bathes our immediate environment in its own unique glow. We have all noticed how some people are easy to love or hate on first sight, how they can easily make our day or make us feel uncomfortable just by being around. They say don't judge a book by its cover but I consider it equally wrong not to. No doubt what we show on the outside is but the tip of the iceberg but it also tells a lot about our person. The signs are there, it is up to the observer to pick them up.
A person's behaviour towards us is both the result of how he views the world as well as how he views us - which also includes what emotions we evoke in him. To him we are that kind of person associated with xyz things until proven otherwise where xyz connection may be something established by his environment or subject to arbitrary personal judgement. Take avatars, we have all noticed how they are capable of subtly manipulating our reaction towards a certain poster, it is part of his image. In reality that image has the power to create or deny opportunities for small or big things, remember yes man with Jim Carrey? That kind of positive attitude, opening doors you normally wouldn't and dealing with difficulties in life as a personal challenge can change your life, give you different options compared to before.
Recently Vlaad introduced me to a graphic novel called Asterios Polyp, an interesting read which surprisingly was pretty close to I had in my mind at the time. One of its themes was that reality is the extension of self: My world is different than yours because I see it in a different light from a different viewpoint and therefore have a different understanding and experience of it. In the novel this is illustrated with unique character balloons and writing style for each character or contrasting colours and/or designs between conflicting characters - red vs blue, angular vs curved. The concept of Silent Hill bears some striking similarities if you read between the lines. For those who are not familiar with it, Silent Hill is a fictional town that exists on different levels or reality and is able to shift between them. The way each character experiences the town varies, an innocent girl will see a picturesque, quiet town while a tormented character will find himself in a nightmarish place where his fears and guilt come alive personified. But during a character interaction their realities are intertwined and they may catch a glimpse of the other's world, see or feel what the other does.
This is an intriguing allegory of what happens in real life. Our own world can be felt or perceived by those around us to various degrees and effects - Sometimes they are compatible, other times they repulse the other. A person's mere presence could very well challenge your whole world, what you stand for and that is not easy to accept. But maybe that is the wrong way to look at things. You see, when you want to alienate two groups of people all you have to do is put a visible shiny label on them, often variations of the theme US and THEM. The moment someone is considered a part of THEM he becomes something alien to you, in fact he is the dumpling of all those things you want or fear him to be. But maybe there is no such thing as our and their world, maybe we are but a part of one universe working in harmony. And just maybe you will find that their logic complements yours in ways you had not considered. For the record if anyone brings religion or child rapists in this one he sucks big time. Just read through the lines and allow the meaning to sink in before you start arguing semantics or extreme cases that I never intended to bring up.
Hope you enjoyed the read, looking forward to impressions 
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted February 22, 2011 04:34 PM |
bonus applied by Mytical on 01 Mar 2011. |
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All reality is derived from fiction.
Perception, thus creates identity in a way? I'm reminded of a member in my youth movement who is going through a rough phase and one of the things this member does is wear different clothes (darker and such) and act differently. Identity-crisis is what one of my colleagues called it and that's interesting, because it made me realise that people find ways to physically transform themselves into someone else, someone tougher or better, etc.
I, myself, never really had this as the way I dress and act has always changed slowly beyond my own perception. Though, we ARE the the worst judges of ourself.
Something else that intrigues me is that people behave (and if behaviour = part of who we are, then these people also are) differently depending on the group of people they interact with, so if we pull this line through towards perception, then our identity is created by how we perceive our surroundings and how we perceive our surroundings affects how he perceive ourselves. Though, of course, maybe this change in behavioral pattern is just part of adolescent insecurity (as that's the age group I'm dealing with and still somewhat am part of) and is different for older or more secure people.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 22, 2011 05:00 PM |
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I suggest to read a couple of books by Phil K. Dick whose main theme is subjectivity of reality.
I'm not sure, though, whether it's indeed perceptin which is subjectively different from one person to another, but they way, how those perceptions are processed and interpreted.
An easy experiment is this:
take a picture with a lot of details and show it for some time to a couple of persons.
Even though everyone has definitely seen the same, the actual description of what has been seen (and even perceived) will be different from person ro person.
One reason is that perceptions may create different associations. Another is, that you may perceive the forest or the trees or a combination of both: one person may be able to name and recall an astonishing amount of details, objects and so on - but may have failed to register that it shows, for example a car garage, while the other may register that it is a garage, but notice only stuff in the foreground.
So I tend to think, that while perception is the same for everyone, the brain is rather selective with processing the info, and the way how a brain processes it, seems to depend on ability (how capable is the processoring unit) and history (what processoring preferences does the brain have).
For example, people often or even permanently in danger will "filter" perceptions for signs of danger, which is obviously an evolutionary survival trait.
The bottom line would be, yes, perceptions, when it comes to actually registering them, are very subjective and can be extremely different on one and the same thing.
Naturally, if perceptions are different on one and thee same thing, communication is ... challenging...
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 23, 2011 01:50 PM |
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And that is why we love dagoth, he understands, has something to say on the subject and adds his own personal touch. Yes when someone wants to change the most common approach is changing things ON him. Seems superficial but goes deeper than that, then again we have the attention ******. Sometimes you'd be surprised to learn what people do to their bodies when they feel different inside.. And insecurity limited to adolescents? Heh. Heheh.. HEHEHEHEHE!! Oh boy, I wish that was the case. (Not aimed at anyone here in case it was perceived as a barb)
Different behaviour towards different people doesn't necessarily mean much, each person simply brings something different out of you. It is interesting to see how one behaves in a different environment than the one you met him in. And sometimes you just can never know what can set a man off..
@JJ
Yeah I love picture games, people literally see a different picture. While on this subject watch this video and tell me whether you succeeded or not  It is amazing what tricks our mind plays on us even when we are dealing with things that happen in front of our very eyes.
Speaking of filter perceptions I seem to have developed a general alertness mode after about a year of aikido training, it kind of switches on when I am outside. Not a sense of danger mind you as that would be cause for concern 
Here is a cracked article that I recommend to everyone, 5 Ways Your Brain Is Messing With Your Head.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 25, 2011 06:07 PM |
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I find your lack of interest disturbing.
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evinin
Supreme Hero
Servant of Asha
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posted February 25, 2011 07:09 PM |
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Edited by evinin at 19:23, 25 Feb 2011.
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Quote:
Here is a cracked article that I recommend to everyone, 5 Ways Your Brain Is Messing With Your Head.
Why are there only three? I find them quite interesting, though.
Well... I'll write some things, too, and I'll make a confession.
I collected people. It may sound really strange to many of you but for me it was the most normal thing ever. Even people that I didn't really know were part of my "collection". Let me explain what that was. You see, when I liked somebody I could make friends with that somebody (though I'm really not that kind of person) or if that person was, let say, "too far" from me I just "collected" him. I "collected" many of my teachers, I saw in them different things and different characteristics of life, I saw in some symbols for me that no one else could possible understand. I also had a friend, not that close of a friend, but someone in who I saw many things and ideas. When I lost contact with that person I went trough a bad period but then I lived trough it and I actually stopped my collection.
Like I said - people didn't see what I did. People still don't see what I do. Sometimes I have really good feelings about things - I'm sure that something WILL happen or not and so. Sometimes I feel people, I know who to avoid. I feel books. I don't know why but when I take a book that I've read I always feel something with it, I connect it with stuff that I can't even make clear in my mind. The feelings just flash trough me and I'm sure that no one else can feel the same.
I think that I would like to read the book that you've mentioned, Elvin, it sounds like something that I would like. I read books fast because I want to see how they end. I often don't realize some of the descriptions - places, characters, colors. I don't bond with the heroes of the books and they mean almost nothing to me. Everyone I know feels at least one of the characters in the book close to him - I've never felt that.
People are so different. They all have so different feelings and points of view. I absolutely agree about the world being different for everyone.
I don't know why I've written all of this but I hope it's on the topic.
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DagothGares
Responsible
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No gods or kings
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posted February 25, 2011 10:30 PM |
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Naturally, if perceptions are different on one and thee same thing, communication is ... challenging...
And the reason for the OSM being what it is.
@ evinin: Could you be more specific about collecting people?
It reminds me of how fascinated I am with people I don't understand.
Also, by learning the cyrillic alphabet and the Polish alfabet (which is largely similar to ours but has a few differences) I sometimes have a distorted sound image of words or mess up my writing (mostly mixing the d with the russian d for some reason).
Also, perception is heavily influenced by time (well, duh). I think I have written a lot about romanticism already, the basic idea of which is that the memory of pleasant things get more pleasant as time elapses, which will lead to eventual disappointment when confronted with reality. You know, the idea that everything used to be better. Or even better: someone you like will grow to be a better, grander and more wonderful person, the longer you don't see this person. And when you finally do see this person, you will wonder how this person changed or what happened.
Of course, the fact is that people change when you're not around them. You can't just put people on a shelf and expect to find them the way you left them two years later. But I think that we adjust our expectations and our perception unrealistically as time elapses.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 25, 2011 11:27 PM |
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@evinin
You must have missed the second page. Collecting is a curious term to use, I hope you don't pin them to a big frame like butterflies ^^
Attract them to you? Try to piece together the pieces of their puzzle? Become involved in their life? Stalk them? 
About the books you seem to rush towards the ending than allow yourself to be immersed. I like to take my time, enjoy the scenery, ponder of further implications - But then it really depends what you like reading
@dagoth
Us rpg geeks are easily intrigued by certain characters
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JollyJoker
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posted February 25, 2011 11:29 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Naturally, if perceptions are different on one and thee same thing, communication is ... challenging...
And the reason for the OSM being what it is.
Dang, why stop at the OSM? The World is not enough, or so I heard.
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evinin
Supreme Hero
Servant of Asha
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posted February 26, 2011 12:38 AM |
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Quote:
@evinin
You must have missed the second page. Collecting is a curious term to use, I hope you don't pin them to a big frame like butterflies ^^
Attract them to you? Try to piece together the pieces of their puzzle? Become involved in their life? Stalk them?
No, that's not it. I just liked them, some more, some less. Some I really adored with no back thoughts. I just liked the people, I got inspired from them, I saw things in them and characteristics that I wanted to have. The "collecting" was just in my mind with no pins, pieces and stalking. 
I just gave it as an example of different perceptions of people.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted February 26, 2011 12:44 AM |
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I don't want to be collected! 
If I ever see evinin I'll have to create a machine to pull myself out of her head when were done.
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Fauch
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 27, 2011 02:59 AM |
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something important is to not have preconceived ideas about some categories of people. on the street, sometimes you see a guy calling other people, and most of them will just avoid him because of how he looks.
ok, often, they are just going to ask some money, but not always, like some weeks ago, I met a girl who was rejected by everyone and really depressed.
just accept to talk to them without judging them or thinking about the consequences, and you'll spontaneously be friendly.
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Warlord
Famous Hero
Lord of Image Spam
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posted February 27, 2011 03:14 AM |
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Lol, I should totally make an article called "5 ways the brain messes with you" and make only three.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 27, 2011 05:02 PM |
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Lol, I should totally make an article called "5 ways the brain messes with you" and make only three.
What a noobish comment. First, it has nothing to offer at the discussion except maybe a premature death. Secondly there's a second page, your perception of reality is challenged here
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Warlord
Famous Hero
Lord of Image Spam
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posted February 27, 2011 05:49 PM |
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I was commenting on evinin's mistake.
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted February 27, 2011 05:51 PM |
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Nah, sorry. I am not gonna read any of those books or links. Ever since I found out that there are child rapings in the bible, it has been the hottest stuff since Xerox mum dancing on an ejaculating vesuvio!
I have always wanted to be able to sense danger. Always wanted to percieve this exact part of my environment, so I could prevent anything bad happening.
Again, and again, I realise that which was of no danger yesterday, is of much danger today.
Yesterday, I looked at every car that were to pass, but I should have looked on the icy road in which I slipped.
Today, I kept an eye on the icy road, so fine that even the smallest movement while on my bike and I'd slide. Then the car came. Maybe if I'd percieved the threat, but then again, it would probably have hit me the same.
@Dagoth
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I, myself, never really had this as the way I dress and act has always changed slowly beyond my own perception.
Your change of dress changed slowly? But... but aren't you the freaking joker!?!
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You know, the idea that everything used to be better.
Reminds me. I had a dream where I woke up one day in some future where I'd wasted most of my life doing non-important stuff.
There I sat, thinking, if I was just 23 again, I'd so much do what's really important for me.
Then I woke up and proceed wasting time, thinking the past is great, the now could be better and the future is scary.
Later on, when really thinking back. Not trying to seperate different time periods in my life by emotions, but with how it actually went. Then I see that I emotionally miss a time of much abuse, yet the abuse doesn't exist on the emotional plan, there only the possibilities exists.
In reality, if you could stop time, take a break, do whatever you want and then just continue life from the point you left. Would you then, right away, do all in your power for achieving stuff you really want? Or would you succumb to your emotional desires, have sex with a super star, be the grand hero and whatever stuff that really won't matter to you, if you had done it in the past in stead of the now?
If your answer is the latter, then I think you're not ready yet.
@JJ
In regard to your example with the pictures.
I think, if one could translate the information of a given picture into bits, each brain would be subject to the same bits. However what is stored an what isn't highly depends on how the brain is used to work in the given environment (Here, looking at a picture).
If that wasn't the case, I think we could quickly find out the world were in no way objective.
What really may change, which I believe is not measureable, at least not now, is what each bit actually is.
@evinin
Do you, by collecting, mean that you copy certain traits?
If so, I think everyone does that.
I often copy traits of people who impresses me. And Elvin.
@Fauch
I think so as well. Though it can be hard depending on how fragile you may think you, yourself, are.
As of such, I don't hate people. I don't mind people. I wish everyone well. That they can get what they want. But I'm freaking scared of people!
Quote:
I was commenting on evinin's mistake.
Nice fail!
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evinin
Supreme Hero
Servant of Asha
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posted February 27, 2011 06:31 PM |
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Sorry for not seeing the second page... I don't think I've ever done such a terrible mistake...
Anyway - about "collecting" - that's a too strong word but I think it's fitful. I didn't copy things from other people I just liked some of their features and I wanted to have them in the future. You know things like humor, appearance but only inner stuff no fashion obsessions or some things like that. Is it clear now?
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 27, 2011 06:33 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 18:35, 27 Feb 2011.
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In reality, if you could stop time, take a break, do whatever you want and then just continue life from the point you left. Would you then, right away, do all in your power for achieving stuff you really want? Or would you succumb to your emotional desires, have sex with a super star, be the grand hero and whatever stuff that really won't matter to you, if you had done it in the past in stead of the now?
If your answer is the latter, then I think you're not ready yet.
I really want to have sex with a super-star I hope you aren't implying that it is a meaningless achievement 
look at young people now, they are all dreaming of a career, of becoming rich (well, I mean, not like Bill Gates, but enough to buy themselves 2 cars and a tv for each member of the family) and having a respectable and confortable position in society. but personnally, I'm not sure it is worth it.
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As of such, I don't hate people. I don't mind people. I wish everyone well. That they can get what they want. But I'm freaking scared of people!
yeah, that's a problem.
another kind of contradiction is claiming we want peace in the world, and supporting the merciless competition for jobs, economy. how do you plan to reach peace when everyone is struggling to have more than the neighbours?
do my new avatar change your perception of me?
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted February 27, 2011 06:34 PM |
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@evinin
Don't feel bad about it. I once submitted a paper for grading. The teacher neglected to look at the other side and as of such only one side was grated, eventhough both sides were on the same piece of paper.
@Fauch
Hai Fauch. I didn't see your post before, my apologies.
Yes, your new avatar does indeed change my perception of you. Not the physical perception, but the preset idea of what you're going to say with your text.
Before, you had a cerberus as your avatar. I had a pit fiend. To me, you were my imperior, you were my lackey, at most. I could whip you into pieces, your role were to serve. Did you say something foolishly, I'd ignore it. Did you say something I liked, I'd applaud you, like a common pet.
Now, however! Yes now you're the image of peace! You're the bird that sings and all shall rejoice! You're diplomacy!
Hence, all you say, I'll read with the belief that whatever you say, you try to bring peace. Every part of your text shall shine through with the sole purpose of joining people to a common goal. Never shall you speak up on your own behalf, always shall you be the superior one.
Well that's only on the emotional plan, though.
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I really want to have sex with a super-star
Apart from me... Who don't!?
My real question is, do you wanted to have sex with a super-star? I.e. in the past, not in the present.
On the matter of what young people, or any people, are doing today and if it's worth it. To me, I think it's something very personal. Some will realise it's not worth it. Others will always have known it's worth it. I think it depends on the person in question and what their goals actually are.
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how do you plan to reach peace when everyone is struggling to have more than the neighbours?
By creating a system that allows both?
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 28, 2011 12:04 AM |
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Edited by Fauch at 00:04, 28 Feb 2011.
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Apart from me... Who don't!?
My real question is, do you wanted to have sex with a super-star? I.e. in the past, not in the present.
actually, I guess almost all people fantasize about that at some moment in their life, but they consider stars in such a way that they will not try anything to make it come true. it seems most people can't just see stars as equal to them.
at a more local level too, take the most beautiful girl of the school, many boys, despite fantasizing about her, will never try their chance because they think they are worth less than her.
though, it seems there is more when it comes to stars, like a rule in society that says stars must stay with stars or something like that. I mean, a guy who goes for the most beautiful girl of the school, people would say that he's got balls. a guy who goes for a star (I mean, really), people would say he's mad, a stalker, no?
but actually, it's the same thing, no? but we have been conditionned to perceive those people differently.
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