|
| Thread: No comment !!! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
woods
Adventuring Hero
|
posted February 19, 2002 12:08 PM |
|
Edited By: woods on 19 Feb 2002
|
the wrong way....
a. if that guy with that 5 aa's d i d cheat - off
course, remove him....
b. imo a hc-mbr mustn't play like an addict to do a good
job !!! - more important for those ppl is to know the
game, to know the possibilities of cheating and to know
how to use their brain --> cui bono ?
c. & d. for motor 
c. if a hc-mbr do know that proofen cheaters are protected
and he stays in hc.... yeah, then he protects the
cheater himself... (and by all disagreements with
andi : that's a thing i cant believe...)
d. a person who wants to install a cheater - tourney(!)
(winner is the best cheater - the one who wasnt
caught) ... mb this person should calm down....
e. mb for some guys its more important to catch cheater
or 'cheater' then to win a match...
imo death & elite made a good job - why ?
they didnt work public.... (with or without playing likean
addict)
after 3 years h3-tourney and mb 2 month up to h4 - thats a
storm in a teacup !
-woods
postscript :
imo to criticise the hc in that (not honorable!) way and to cry for 'other' solutions is a storm in a teacup!
u are right (@hexa)
- proofen cheaters out of t-o-h !
but better 1 (known?) cheater in this league than 10 innocent players out by suspicion ..
|
|
Hexa
Responsible
Legendary Hero
|
posted February 19, 2002 12:32 PM |
|
|
A storm in a teacup huh?
I beg to differ.
Those guys should be banned from ToH .. not just for this season but forever. Get rid of them now so that we won't be bothered by them again in H4 season.
Hexa
____________
If you want to realize your dreams >>> you have to wake up!@
|
|
madmartigan
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
who will never walk alone
|
|
posted February 19, 2002 03:00 PM |
|
|
I am as frustrated as Motor and Attila about HC's decision.
However, I believe that they are missing a point. XXXX's cheating is not %100 proven. It is Hamsi's word against XXXX's word. Hamsi has a save which has been edited by XXXX. But XXXX claims that Hamsi is the one who has edited save. In such a case, it would be WRONG if HC removed XXXX depending only Hamsi's save files and claims. (Tho, I dont have the slightest doubt that XXXX is the one who used the trainer/editor)
Imagine someone sends some edited saves to HC, claiming that those saves are from a game he played with you.... I guess HC considers such a possibility (It sounds craziest, but it still is an option)
Yes, you are right, you ask "who would bother in such a thing? and why the hell someone would do like thing like that?"
But this is the only logical explanation I can think of why XXXX is not booted.
In sum, again, we should respect HC's judgement. Because, I believe, they cannot remove this cheater depending only one's word. HC has done its best in this case, I believe.
PS: If Hamsi had an editor, he would have been a Lord already me thinks 
____________
|
|
Hexa
Responsible
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted February 19, 2002 03:09 PM |
|
|
So in short u are saying that anybody can edit games in this way .. because it wil always be his/her word against the opponents?
This sucks big time...
I'm pretty sure that if it had been me discussed in this case (a ToH newbie) I would have been removed from HC before I even had the change to say "He What the F*ck is going on?"
Ves. clearly said that this member already has a dishonourable past .. I would say that this should be the final drop!@
One and One still makes Two in my book.
____________
If you want to realize your dreams >>> you have to wake up!@
|
|
Motorschaaf
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
|
|
posted February 19, 2002 04:05 PM |
|
|
@Ves: first of all i feel insulted that u compare me with that braindead bonopart.
i don't fall any conspiracy theory but i am just angry that this player and his friends can stay in TOH. i don't think it's any wrong to say what i think about that case.
when i am in Zone i get zone messages every day o people asking who that guy is we are all here talking about.
I ask em back who they think it could be and guess what : they usually name one of the "cheating trio".
@woods:
a) well can u explain me how to get 5 AA and so many cash on BFH without cheating ?
b) no they dont have to play like addicts, but when they haven't played homm for a long time (2 seasons)they might lose the ability to judge saves/situations. and maybe they would put less "energy" in the job they do.
c) u ever wondered why andi left HC woods ? @Mocara+CO: no he wasn't booted he left.
d) me installing a cheater tourney ?hmmm maybe a good idea ill ask the cheating-trio to join i bet one of em is gonna win 
e) i love HOMM, i love to play TOH games and meet players from all over the world. i hate players that just waste hours and hours of peoples time. what wrong with that ?
And yes woods its more important to me to have a fair opponent and a good game than to win a game.
Well in my opinion most players don't think HC does a bad job. they just cant understand the decision in that case. maybe it would be better if someone would explain why .
specially after andi's statement that some cheaters are beeing protected.
TOHschaaf
|
|
woods
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted February 19, 2002 05:00 PM |
|
Edited By: woods on 19 Feb 2002
|
booted by rumors & suspicions...?
no motor, i've absolutely no idea how to get 5 aa's on bfh
in that situation (better: what i know about that
situation)
but pls have a look at madmartigans posting : whom du u
trust ? (and between the lines : if u trust 1 person - is
it enough reason to boot the other ? )
pls, think of the consequences if that will happen...
(mb open entries for the dumpest conspiracy theories....)
better u've a proof ....
and its unfair and underhanded to refuse hc's
effectiveness because they dont play as often as u....
mb i dont remember, but andi's official reason for his
leaving wasn't that cheaters were protected....
(btw did he have a proof - or do he believe that s.o. is
cheating ? )
-woods
better 1 (known?) cheater in this league than 10 innocent players out by suspicion ..
|
|
Motorschaaf
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
|
|
posted February 19, 2002 05:32 PM |
|
|
Quote:
but pls have a look at madmartigans posting : whom du u
trust ? (and between the lines : if u trust 1 person - is
it enough reason to boot the other ? )
pls, think of the consequences if that will happen...
(mb open entries for the dumpest conspiracy theories....)
well woods u are right maybe its a matter of trust but who would ya believe more a player with a dishonorable past , average honor after 100+TOH games ( thats really hard to get),5 archangels on main, insane recoiurce standings or hamsi ?
well i not only believe hamsi because of this case here. i believe him too because a buddy of me send a save to HC of a game he played versus this player . and guess what happened ? Nothing !
i know that some of the TOH staff doesn't like that i say what i think but i will alllways keep doin it.
that save showed this plyer beating up 2 war unicorns with 11 imps and 4 gogs and 4x30damage arrows...and guess what he didnt even lose a gog. (only 2 imps or so)
And killin a pack of archdevils with poor stats and 1 angel and 4 archangel and a bit fooder. the minor losses of the fooder are absolutely impossible. he didn't even had spellpoints.
and in my opinion its just sure that if u don't play/know the game u can't judge the outcome of such fights.
Pissedschaaf
|
|
lews_therin
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted February 19, 2002 08:12 PM |
|
|
Well, this is one of the rare cases where I completely agree with Motor and disagree with Woods . This is as close to proof as it can ever get.
This is not a real life court. Regarding an online game like Heroes3 that doesn´t save datas on a seperate server, there is no possible way to get hold of waterproof evidence of cheating, if the cheater denies his guilt.
I recently spent 10+ hours for a game with Unicornknight (ZM handle "bigwormlord", he´s now in the HoS), who kept on crashing during his turns, and in the end dropped right after I surprised him by Chain Lightninged his Black Dragons and killing his main hero by that. Without that Orb of Invulnerability, I might have lost to that cheating idiot.
Keeping characters like that in ToH means wasting the time and nerves of many more honest players.
____________
|
|
vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
|
|
posted February 19, 2002 08:45 PM |
|
|
Instead of darting from the point, I will drop the ball, and say this xxx person is habacha.
So now, are you going to witchhunt against him? I know of his dishonorable actions (but these dishonorable things were not editing/trainer issues), and so didnt warrant a booting, but drop in his honor rating.... he has a bad attitude as well. But im not booting him for bad attitude.
As for the trainer/editing issue on him, if its proven, then it is warrant for boot.
I can go right now, in 5 seconds look up habacha's account, and select 'kicked out', and thats it. But im not going to do it because there is a witchunt going on. HC will do the 'kicked out' if its justified.
Just FYI, I have seen cases in the past where someone edited a map to look like the other cheated, to bring him down.
Relax people, we have homm4 around the corner.
____________
|
|
Mad_Unicorn
Famous Hero
I am a mean person shame on me
|
|
posted February 19, 2002 08:46 PM |
|
|
to ves...
u should get involved in xxxxx's cases in HC to get him simmering down abit apparently his complaints are falling on deaf ears. You should become more involved if HC cant cope.... just my oppinions figured i would give u an idea just this once.
Mad
was an email i wrote to ves and this time xxxx is somebody different than the one implied here but ves really should get more involved with this seeing how HC cant determine an outcome.
|
|
lews_therin
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted February 19, 2002 10:42 PM |
|
|
We could as well demolish the HC entirely then. If it were just a bunch of advisors, in the end all the mails would land on Vesuvius´ desk.
No, the concept is good as it is. No matter who decides, there´ll always be agreement and disagreement.
____________
|
|
Mad_Unicorn
Famous Hero
I am a mean person shame on me
|
|
posted February 19, 2002 10:53 PM |
|
|
I never said dismantle
I said make a new one who are familiar with the game either it be heroes 3 or heroes 4. Members should not take favorites always the neutral stand point so they can make a dicision a better one than one who wants to help his buddies. They should be actively playing and helping HC(andi did this job well whereas i never saw hide nor hair of elite or deth)
Seeing HC as it is now i feel sorry for ves but at the same time its his tourny and his responsibilty for realizing whats good for it or not. If he feels that the current HC is doing a great job i think he needs glasses.
|
|
andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
|
|
posted February 19, 2002 10:55 PM |
|
|
nah no witch hunt, and all is fine with ves staying out of HCs decisions, but the point is:
if the hc doesnt boot someone in such a clear case, isnt there something wrong than?
the toh players just dont want to waste their time with guys like xxxxx, whom they may meet in tournaments, thats all, so some critisice the decision made by the HC
____________
|
|
Hexa
Responsible
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted February 19, 2002 11:16 PM |
|
|
Well for me its a very clear cut case....
Although I'm still a newbie here ... I know Hamsi as a VERY honourable player...even one that would rather forfeit(report loss) his game than to loose a possible Zone friend (talking from personal expierience here).
So I think that it's pretty far fetched to think that a player like Hamsi would edit a game to get player XXXX into trouble (a player he has played only once before .. mind you)!@
But if this is HC's final point of view ... I think people can draw there own conclusion from here on.
Hexa
____________
If you want to realize your dreams >>> you have to wake up!@
|
|
melissa_x
Adventuring Hero
Tiffany Taylor
|
|
posted February 20, 2002 01:13 AM |
|
|
ok!
umm if u only understood how much work rob does in toh already especially for someone who has a real carreer and a real life outside the comp u shouldnt be asking him to do more work and do all the hc stuff.
____________
|
|
Prometheus
Adventuring Hero
Knight of the Oracle
|
|
posted February 20, 2002 02:07 AM |
|
|
Credo
Guys,
When a cheat occurs, no case is ever closed until someone ends up in the HoS. I tell you only because there is so
much interest in it. The HC is not going to spend its time defending itself. To what end? Im not saddened to see the concern of players at the situation that resulted in this thread. Let me start by saying that HC isnt infallible, and
so it is of such importance that HC proceed with due caution in matters that stain the character of players so irrevocably.
Be assured that HC stands by all of its decisions and there is no appeals process. That makes it all the more important that someone is not sent to the HoS on subjective evidence or popular opinion. When someone is sent there, you can be certain of their character (or lack thereof). You can be almost as certain that they will reappear under a new handle and you will have no forewarning of their character. And sadly, little can be done about this.
It is not a haphazard act to mark a person. A predisposition toward one or the other players involved is a great hindrance to objectivity in matters of evidence. Be cautious in your remarks here I ask of you please. Restraint is the mark of great character. Do not assume that all facts are in evidence when someone runs to the boards. Give the HC a little trust and we will let you down as little as is within our power. When you think we make a mistake, you can enlist our attention best with an email to describe your concern. Thank you for reading and thinking about what I have said.
For now lets put the pitchforks back on the barnwall and get the kindling ready for next time.
There is a credo:
All that is required for evil to triumph is for good
men to do nothing.
I had no idea how active HC was until I joined its ranks. Evil will not triumph. I am humbled to work with two people who have put forth such an obvious effort for so long.
Prometheus
|
|
Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
|
|
posted February 20, 2002 02:14 AM |
|
|
|
You know I had a few problems with a few players & black deth always helped, so he's there I guess not in public no
|
|
Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
|
|
posted February 20, 2002 02:21 AM |
|
|
Well something gotta be done because I for one do not want to play a cheater & those arch angels are as real as the pikemen in your castle so one of the two cheated & instead of the obvious (arch angels in xxxx army) go ahead & try to go on that witch hut & see if you can prove who really did it yes.
I for one would hate to be set up like that if thats the case yes.
Two things he was set up or xxxx is the editor yes.
|
|
LichKing
Honorable
Known Hero
|
posted February 20, 2002 02:51 AM |
|
|
Bingo!!!!
Quote:
You know I had a few problems with a few players & black deth always helped, so he's there I guess not in public no
I know for a fact that Deth is alive and kickin behind the scenes. I had email from him regarding complaints from a couple of people in Fest.
I have all the faith in the world in the HC. On the surface it may appear that they are doing little, but I'm positive they're right on top of the situation.
Prometheus' post reinforces this faith in me.
If I were in the shoes of someone under such scrutiny as an accused cheater, I would be grateful that an unfavorable action wasn't going to be made against me without FULL, UNDENIABLE proof.
Whether you like Habacha or not, he's entitled to the same treatment the rest of us are. If he's the bad egg everyone is seemingly certain of......hehehe, they'll get him for sure. Just wait and see.
Until then, have a little faith
I have it--and I have an anger toward cheaters that approaches hatred.
____________
SOUND THE CHARGE!! INTO GLORY RIDE!!!
|
|
Mocara
Famous Hero
what?
|
|
posted February 20, 2002 03:44 AM |
|
|
As everyone will soon find out Deth8 and Prometheus are the 2 best people for this job.
They will make a much cleaner ToH and no player will come under scorn until PROVEN guilty.
I know in the past players have become used to swift "justice" but what if you were the player who was booted out?
Wouldn't you want them to consider all angles before they made the call?
The future of ToH is bright because of the great leadership.
-Mocara
____________
|
|
|
|
