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| Thread: Right to Self Defense, Gun Ownership, and Deterence of Crime |  This thread is pages long: 1 10 ... 19 20 21 22 23 ... 30 40 50 55 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Doomforge
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posted August 08, 2012 01:45 PM |
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I think is going too much into unrealistic situations. A thief will almost never break in your house if you and your family are at home, because : a) he does not want to be catch, b) he needs to search for goodies and your presence prevents him searching well.
Precisely! that's why the shotgun (or any gun) is useless. You can't fire at him when you're not at home.
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Which leaves to the real situations, where a thief breaks in your office/work place and often is armed with something. Many people here talk about protecting your family, but in real life it is 99% of situations protect your money. So, killing someone to save your money would me a more appropriate title.
Idk about US. As I said before, in my country at least, homes are scouted before theft (see police records, especially testimonies of captured criminals who wanted lighter sentence) and the moment is picked accordingly. It's pointless to rush in, guns blazing - the idea of a thief is to get away with what he stole, and making a rampage with a shotgun in your home hardly helps.
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Elodin
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posted August 08, 2012 07:40 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 19:41, 08 Aug 2012.
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You get both.
Imagine, the guy isn't dead. The main force of the shell hit him in the shoulder, shredding it more or less, and now the guy is lying on your carpet, cries in total anguish like a pack of hell hounds and bleeds slowly to death. Your wife and children are coming to see what's happening...
Do you really think you can just FORGET that?
Yeah, I could certainly live with it. One thing I'd have a hard time living with is having to watch my wife and children raped and murdered because I was too wimpy to defend them properly. My job as a husband/father/grandfather is to protect my family. If I refuse to do that out of misplaced sympathy for the scum that means to do them harm I'm rather a sorry husband/father/grandfather.
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But that's not what we are talking about.
We are talking about the suggestion of our righteous, loving Christian to keep a shotgun at home and smear your living room walls with the blood of anyone who puts a foot into your house, because they just MAY be a horde of aliens or a pack of demon worshippers who wants to torture your family to death.
No, we are talking about somebody who lives in the real world instead of loony-tunes land recognizing that a rock, a bat, or a knife won't cut it for home defense.
Oh, and I've quoted before where God does not call all killing of humans murder. Murder is prohibited. Killing someone who breaks into your home is not murder according to God.
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Exo 22:2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him.
As Jesus said, a strong man armed keeps his goods (Luk 11:21.) If you don't want to defend your wife, kids, or grandkids by all means let them get raped and murdered. That is your prerogative. If they live and ask why you did not protect them you can always say, "Honey, that man is just poor and misunderstood. He only raped you over and over again because he was mistreated by society. I could not bear to lay a hand on him to make him stop. That would be abuse."
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Whereas I think - and I'm not alone here - that most people will be better of defending themselves with something non-lethal.
Repeat after me. "If I hold a bat and the intruder holds a gun I am dead. My family is dead. After they have been repeatedly raped." A rock is not better for defense than a gun. A bat is not better for defense that a gun. For anyone.
Repeat after me. "If I refuse to protect my family I don't really love them. I'm just using them."
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Elodin, do you use alarms? Or do you simply depend on your shotgun
Yes, I have alarms, a big dog, a cyclone fence, and multiple guns. Alarms and dogs don't guarantee you won't get a home invader or that cops would respond fast enough to save you.
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Doomforge
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posted August 08, 2012 08:22 PM |
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That's a rather peculiar country (state?) then if you get people that go through alarms, dogs and fences to rob you. Perhaps Texas ain't that great after all  An old lock in the fence is enough in my country to statistically never be robbed at all when you're home.
Either that, or you're getting (no offense) a little paranoid? And what's with all that repeated rape stuff? I never heard of a guy going into home-fortresses like yours to rape people... that would be one desperate guy, even if you didn't have a shotgun there
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Zenofex
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posted August 08, 2012 08:38 PM |
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In Texas, the raping is preceded by a long range artillery bombardment which should disable the defences of the would-be raped. Hence the necessity to legalize the possession of howitzers by citizens.
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JollyJoker
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posted August 08, 2012 10:59 PM |
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Apparently, in Texas you are not mentally handicapped with an IQ of 61.
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Ok, that explains a lot.
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Doomforge
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posted August 08, 2012 11:26 PM |
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"Take me home, Jesus. Take me home, Lord," he continued. "I ain't left yet, must be a miracle. I am a miracle."
Green Mile, anyone?
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 08, 2012 11:29 PM |
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Apparently, in Texas you are not mentally handicapped with an IQ of 61.
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Ok, that explains a lot.
Should they not execute the ones with 139 either?
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Doomforge
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posted August 09, 2012 12:22 AM |
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It's like death penalty for Forrest Gump.
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Elodin
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posted August 09, 2012 12:58 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 01:00, 09 Aug 2012.
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Apparently, in Texas you are not mentally handicapped with an IQ of 61.
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Ok, that explains a lot.
Liberals always feel so sorry for the predators when they should be shedding tears for the victims. Texas executed a man who murdered someone who snitched on him for being a drug dealer. Savy predators always give libbies a sob story about why it is not their fault that they did what they did and libs just eat it up. Of course huffy puffy post loves all things liberal.
Wilson was a career criminal, having served time for robbery twice. He was a drug dealer. When somebody snitched him out he abducted the snitch and murdered him.
At his execution he talked to his own family but refused to say he was sorry to the family of the murdered victim. Wilson was a cold blooded, calculated killer and career criminal. The world is better off without him.
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Wilson was convicted in 1994 in the shooting death of Jerry Williams, 21, who had identified him to police as a drug dealer.
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Texas and federal courts, however, rejected Wilson's claim that he was mentally retarded, siding with prosecutors who argued that his actions showed him to be a street-savvy criminal. Prosecutors also declared that other intelligence tests showed Wilson's IQ was in the low- to mid-70s.
"Wilson created schemes using a decoy to screen his thefts, hustled for jobs in the community, and orchestrated the execution of the snitch, demonstrating inventiveness, drive and leadership," Edward Marshall, a Texas assistant attorney general, said in a statement.
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He urged his son not to cry, told his family he would see them again, and then told the warden standing next to him that he was ready. He didn't acknowledge his victim's father, two brothers and an uncle who were watching through an adjacent window. They later declined comment.
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Wilson was convicted of murdering 21-year-old Jerry Williams in November 1992, several days after police seized 24 grams of cocaine from Wilson's apartment and arrested him. Witnesses testified that Wilson and another man, Andrew Lewis, beat Williams outside of a convenience store in Beaumont, about 80 miles east of Houston. Wilson, who was free on bond, accused Williams of snitching on him about the drugs, they said.
Witnesses said Wilson and Lewis abducted Williams, and neighborhood residents said they heard a gunshot a short time later. Williams was found dead on the side of a road the next day, wearing only socks, severely beaten and shot in the head and neck at close range.
Wilson was arrested the next day when he reported to his parole officer on a robbery conviction for which he served less than four years of a 20-year prison sentence. It was the second time he had been sent to prison for robbery.
At Wilson's capital murder trial, Lewis' wife testified that Wilson confessed to the killing in front of her, her husband and his own wife.
"Don't be mad at Andrew because Andrew did not do it," Lewis' wife said Wilson told them. "I did it."
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Doomforge
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posted August 09, 2012 01:04 AM |
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Wilson was a cold blooded, calculated killer and career criminal.
And a manchild. With IQ 61 you're as much "gangsta" as a 5yo is.
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Seraphim
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posted August 09, 2012 04:32 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Wilson was a cold blooded, calculated killer and career criminal.
And a manchild. With IQ 61 you're as much "gangsta" as a 5yo is.
I side with elodin here. Intelligence tests are not always accuracte and the fact that the guy was a druggie is enough to consider him dangerous and responsible for his actions.
Seriously though, why the hell do you pity or criticize the death of a murderer?
The subject is more or less about guns but how did we get from guns to the death penalty?
Usually, laws go along these lines "Not knowing about laws does not protect-exempt you from felony-punishment". Since when is being drug addicted, sick or retarded a special condition that exempts somebody from murder charges? WTF?
Though, pardon my ignorance on european laws. I am 99% sure that some dumb law in europe exempts people with "Special Issues" from punishment .
It does not matter if somebody is hindered, breaking the law== punishment. It does not matter if "somebody" is retarded. That goes because we are all "Equal".
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JollyJoker
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posted August 09, 2012 09:01 AM |
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There is a federal law in the US that PROHIBITS mentally handicapped to be punished by death. However, it's up to the states to define "mentally handicapped".
Apparently, in Texas you are not considered mentally handicapped with an IQ of 61.
Of course there are a couple interpretations, jokes and conclusions possible here.
But if you read Elodin's last to verses posts, you get the impression, that it's really god's own work to KILL people, if the opportunity presents itself and they offer the slightest excuse.
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Doomforge
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posted August 09, 2012 11:04 AM |
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It does not matter if somebody is hindered, breaking the law== punishment. It does not matter if "somebody" is retarded. That goes because we are all "Equal".
Except that mentally handicapped are not "equal" to us when it comes to distinguishing right and wrong. Ever seen a person with a down syndrome? I'm sure you did. Their IQ ranges from 30 to 60. While IQ tests do a poor job determining high intelligence, they are quite accurate for retarded people.
Point is, you don't really need capital punishment for someone that's mentally challenged. Life in prison would seem a better idea, don't you think?
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 09, 2012 11:35 AM |
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So you're saying stupid people shouldn't receive the same punishment?
If that isn't discrimination I don't know what is.
And you can be damn sure that the guy knows killing is punishable by death.
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JollyJoker
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posted August 09, 2012 11:42 AM |
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People, we are talking about the US, and in the US this is the LAW:
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The U.S. Supreme Court ruled 6-3 ... that executions of mentally retarded criminals are "cruel and unusual punishment," violating the Eighth Amendment to the Constitution.
What is "mentally retarded", however, is defined by the States, not by federal law.
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Salamandre
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posted August 09, 2012 11:42 AM |
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The point is once you agree they can't distinguish right from wrong, any punishment is out of question, would be hypocritical to say death no, but maybe "life prison"?
This was one of the major feared possible issue with Brevik, if declared not responsible he could stay comfortable in some hospital with all comfort up.
Majority of mentally handicapped do not attempt to kill though, which means either society or family takes care of them, even with a low IQ you can still be educated.
Of course, Elodin says "world will be better without him". But a society which has no problems in killing those it refuses to handle is a very selfish and materialistic one. Today is about IQ, tomorrow maybe those who can't walk, speak or hear?
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JollyJoker
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posted August 09, 2012 12:05 PM |
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You think an asylum is "comfortable"?
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Salamandre
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posted August 09, 2012 12:11 PM |
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So, once we agree they can't distinguish right from wrong, what you propose, Ritz hotel for life?
This is the law in EU, they can't be thrown in prison but someone will take care of them in hospital.
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JollyJoker
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posted August 09, 2012 12:37 PM |
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This was one of the major feared possible issue with Brevik, if declared not responsible he could stay comfortable in some hospital with all comfort up.
You said this and made it sound like a stay in an asylum was indeed like Ritz Hotel for life, which is why I asked whether you think an asylum was comfortable.
Because I don't think so.
I have no idea what makes you think I didn't want them to be kept in an asylum - it's you who seems to think that asylums are "too good" and no real punishment.
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Salamandre
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posted August 09, 2012 01:00 PM |
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Breivik very comfortable prison.
"He spends his time weight-training, reading a series of books on the history of different countries in the world, playing a computer game where he builds a city, and watching films on DVD. "
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