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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Right to Self Defense, Gun Ownership, and Deterence of Crime
Thread: Right to Self Defense, Gun Ownership, and Deterence of Crime This thread is 55 pages long: 1 10 20 30 40 ... 46 47 48 49 50 ... 55 · «PREV / NEXT»
fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 27, 2013 07:23 PM

yeah, this is why i'm always armed. too bad this woman wasn't. i keep trying to stress this to my sister, who has a husband, and her 2 little boys living with her. they've already had someone in their fenced-in yard, looking in their windows, while they were home. this was months ago, and she still refuses to have a firearm in her household.

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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted June 29, 2013 08:55 AM

Good news is they caught the guy. He is a career criminal. No surprise there.

Clicky
Quote:

Custis has 12 felony convictions and a record dating back to the early 90s, according to NJ.com. He was released from jail in December after serving 10 months for a series of burglaries in New Jersey in 2011, the article said.

Custis was being transported Friday to an undisclosed location in New Jersey, Ambrose said.

He was charged with first-degree attempted murder, first-degree robbery, second-degree burglary and two counts of endangering the welfare of a child, according to the prosecutor's office.


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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted June 29, 2013 09:56 AM

Quote:
I'd wager you'd find it less traumatic to kill a home invader than to allow the home invader to kill your family because you failed to provide the necessary defense for your family.


That's not even an argument, it's an eristic trick.

You would probably feel better if X happened to you instead of Y, if X is worse, yes. Such as X= being impaled. Doesn't change the fact that Y is bad and traumatizing. Which was my point.

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted June 30, 2013 03:48 PM
Edited by Zenofex at 15:49, 30 Jun 2013.

Some 1.5 - 2 years ago we had a curious armed casino robbery attempt here in Bulgaria. The robbers managed to escape the building with the money but got caught a few days after that following a short investigation. According to the people from the police the casino camera records showed that one of the robbers was holding his pistol "too professionally" to be just some wannabe from the street and through that observation they quickly found that one particular policeman from the area had serious financial problems, started looking for him and voila. After that it turned out that the same policeman was supposed to pay the loan borrowed by his father's second wife - which he couldn't afford - and when the bank blocked the payment of his salary (the salary of the Bulgarian policemen is fairly pathetic) he decided to go for the robbery. In the court, he explained that he's the only relative of his school-aged sister who she can could count on, they're living in misery and she doesn't deserve that to continue. I don't know how the story ends.

So the hero of this drama might just be trying to save his ass but assuming that what he says is true, what would you call him? Scumbag? Worthless? Monster?

Seriously though, we've been through this dozens of times already. Nobody implies that you should stand still and do nothing when somebody is threatening you or the people dear to you. It's bloody preposterous to assume that anyone here (and at all) can be saying something like that and if you truly believe that this is the case, then you have to change the broken record in your head, period (applies to all guns-for-the-masses proponents here, not someone in particular). It is however incredibly idiotic to treat everyone who somehow poses a threat as a useless meatbag which everybody will be happy to see 2 meters underground. It's also ridiculous to keep repeating the same mantra that guns and only guns can save you from the inevitable attack of some robber, killer, rapist, etc. and not do anything else to protect your house while the practice shows that a simple alarm system is tons more effective at preventing such disasters. And I don't want to talk about the "if he crosses the doorstep unwelcome, he's dead" attitude that some people consider the most natural thing in the world, it's useless.

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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 30, 2013 05:05 PM

zenofex, you do realize that the criminal in the video posted does not fall under the category you are speaking of? what about most of the violent criminals in prison? do you speak for them as well? have you ever personally known a criminal? ever talked with one? ever heard daily the kind of things that would make you despise them?

i never said that anything was black and white. regardless of this fact, i do not care about the motivations behind anyone who threatens. i understand the struggle of all life, that sometimes things have to be more bestial than normal, in order to survive. that is what i am talking about. a violent action can be stopped by a violent act.

the fact that it doesn't bother me, that i am resilient to any useless morals regarding my decisions, ESPECIALLY concerning violent criminality, is entirely besides the point.

zenofex, have you personally ever been the victim of a crime? have you ever been victimized by violence? until you have, you can speak for NOBODY. i don't speak from an armchair, nor do i waste emotions on anyone unworthy. violent criminals, believe it or not, fall into that category. that you feel the need to express your "hands across the world" sensibility for CRIMINALS, is a little distressing.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted June 30, 2013 08:39 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 20:40, 30 Jun 2013.

Quote:
everyone is different, doomforge. what would traumatize one person could be an everyday occurence to some. besides, some things can be gotten used to with repetition. then there's the compartmentalization trick. many soldiers, killers, etc, use it to distance themselves from what they have done.

out of the billions of people on the planet, and the billions of deaths that have happened on this rock called earth, it sure would be a shame if a p.o.s. criminal got removed from this mortal coil.

killing someone who is directly threatening you or you loved ones is pretty far from "bad", is what i'm saying. lives are only worth the good they bring to others. there are far too many useless, abusive people on this planet to worry about the loss of one, or even a hundred. how many innocent lives are taken by such people, doomforge? you think that they share your sense of morality? watch the video, and tell me that person, who is senselessly beating a woman who he has already dominated, for whatever purpose, is worth living. tell that to the little kid who had to watch their mother being beaten to **** by that p.o.s. human waste.


Morality works all the time. It doesn't shut off when someone does something you don't agree with. If you're forced to, you may act upon impulse, but you'll feel regret and/or trauma later.

It might be that you and Elodin are simply devoid of those sensations and thus killing a criminal means nothing serious to you, yes. Well, I'm quite sure Elodin wouldn't feel regret, pity or anything when blowing someone's brains out "in honest case" - I would. That's why Elodin and I can't agree with each other on the matter.

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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 01, 2013 02:56 AM
Edited by fred79 at 02:20, 08 Aug 2013.

well, i speak only for myself, df. i cannot speak for every other gun owner out there, as we are all different. i'm sure there are gun owners who think like you do, and i'm not offended by it, i just don't understand it, like religious thinking, comparatively.

i can say, with all truthfulness, that guns make the world a nicer place. they can stop violence from even happening(in some instances, at least), and even if they do not, the alternative to guns can be a WHOLE lot worse. bullets can only do so much, there is a plethora of nastier things out there to defend oneself. a hammer, for instance.

i wouldn't be so quick to demonize gun owners. take a moment to consider the other side, the side that gives no **** about what they do, and who they hurt.

all gun owners do, is try to keep bad things from happening to them or their loved ones. like keeping a fire extinguisher in the house and car, or a smoke detector, or stocking water and batteries in case of power outtages. it's merely about being prepared for what you can, nothing more than that, really.

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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted July 01, 2013 06:58 AM
Edited by Elodin at 07:01, 01 Jul 2013.

Texas executed a serial killer this week, Elroy Chester. Why am I posting information on that here?  Because after he killed his last victim, other intended victims were able to get free of their bonds and get to a gun, saving their lives and leading to his downfall.

Chester had tied up 3 teens, and had raped the two girls. Their unsuspecting uncle arrived. He killed the uncle and went outside to see why the car was left running. The uncle's girlfriend was in the car and he tried to kill her too, but missed 5 shots. When he tried to go back in the house the teens had managed to get untied and get their grandfather's gun and shot at him, saving their lives. He fled and was later caught by police.

Guns are tools for good, evil, or neutral purposes depending on what the person is using the gun for. A gun can save your life or the life of your family.

Elroy Chester
Quote:

Quote:

UPDATE: He’s dead. Good and dead. And as some predicted, no remorse. Sure, he fully admitted his crimes…but no remorse.

__________________________________________________________

   Thug: Elroy Chester (28 at time of offense)
   Date of Execution: June 12, 2013
   Date of Crime: February 6, 1998
   Victim(s): Willie Ryman III (38) — This is the crime for which he is being executed, but Chester also admitted to killing four other people: John Henry Sepeda, 78, on Sept. 20, 1997; Etta Mae Stallings, 87, on Nov. 15. 1997; Cheryl DeLeon, 40, on Nov. 20, 1997; and Albert Bolden Jr., 35, on Dec. 21, 1997.
   Last Meal: A huge serving of Pentobarbital.
   
Final Words: ”Don’t hate me. I’m sorry for taking your loved one,” Chester said. “Elroy Chester wasn’t a bad man, I don’t care what anybody says. A lot of people say I didn’t commit those murders. I really did it.”

Stalked a 17-year old girl as a target for burglary. When he was sure she was alone, he cut the phone line to the house and entered through an unlocked door. He then forced the teenage girl (who was alone with her 1 year old son) to give him jewelry and other valuables. When her 14 year old sister and boyfriend arrived, he forced all three teens to strip and then  blindfolded and bound them with duct tape. He then raped both girls.

When their uncle, Willie “Billy” Ryman III — a local firefighter — arrived, Chester shot and killed him.

Uncle Billy (as the girls called him) undoubtedly saved the lives of those three kids. After shooting Ryman, Chester went outside to see why Ryman’s car engine was still running. He fired five shots at Ryman’s girlfriend in the passenger seat (luckily she was not hit). When he tried to go back into the house, the teens had already locked the door and shot back at Chester with one of their grandfather’s guns.

Talk about a guy who needs kill’n:

   Investigators contend that the events surrounding Ryman’s murder were the culmination of a six-month spree of criminal activity in which Chester burglarized at least five residences, sexually assaulted two people, murdered at least five people, and fired shots at no fewer than five others.

   Among the crimes, Chester eventually confessed to committing during this period were the burglary and homicide of John Henry Sepeda, killed as he awoke in bed while Chester was robbing his home; the murder of Albert Bolden, the killer’s common-law brother-in-law, for setting Chester up on a date with a woman who turned out to be a transvestite; the burglary and homicide of Etta Stallings, also shot to death in her bedroom while Chester robbed the home; and the murder of Cheryl DeLeon, a former co-worker Chester was accused of sexually harassing years before he ambushed her outside her home and shot her in the head.

Even the death-penalty-hating, thug-loving Lefties at the Austin Chronicle admit that “Elroy Chester was the worst one-man crime wave Port Arthur had ever seen.”

   To say that Chester was a difficult client to defend would be an understatement; transcripts from the sentencing hearing reflect that Chester had little, if any, rapport with his defense counsel. Against the advice of his attorney, Chester opted to testify on his own behalf, delivering a rambling and inflammatory rant wherein he claimed variously that he hadn’t acted alone in committing his many crimes, and that if sentenced to death he would have his “homeboys” on the outside commit additional crimes in his honor, and that he should’ve killed additional victims – including a 10-year-old who had survived his attack, and a police officer who had previously arrested him for burglary.

Is it any wonder that the jury deliberated for only 11 minutes (a record that still stands today) before sentencing him to death.

Of course, the Chronicle parrots Chester’s defense that he’s retarded and thus shouldn’t be executed.

Some folks are just no good, and so filled with evil that the world is a better place without them in it. Elroy Chester is at the top of that list.




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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted July 01, 2013 07:15 AM

Quote:
zenofex, have you personally ever been the victim of a crime?
I have. When I was in the primary school, some street robber tried to steal my watch (a gift), literally broke it from my wrist and ran away. A person passing by however started chasing him and caught him. My grandparents also had a cottage outside the town, with fruit-trees, vegetables, grape and so on (they were not living there, it was only for the mentioned agricultural stuff) - one day they found it robbed from everything which could be lifted and taken out from the window. There have been other "smaller" robberies affecting different relatives of mine, so rest easy, I'm from this planet.
Quote:
regardless of this fact, i do not care about the motivations behind anyone who threatens.
If there's an immediate and dangerous threat, you shouldn't. The question however is about the attitude. You admit that you couldn't care less why someone commits a crime if he does it so you're highly unlikely to ever see my point.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 01, 2013 09:13 AM

Chester was, if I'm not wrong, also the jubilee executed: Congratulate Texas for execution # 500 since they (re-)introduced the death penalty in 1982.

Texas single-handedly accounts for 40 % of the US executions. Roundabout one every 3 weeks. Really should reintroduce making it a public spectacle again.

George Carlin has a couple of good ideas there

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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted July 01, 2013 02:38 PM
Edited by Elodin at 14:40, 01 Jul 2013.

No, Chester was #499. A woman, Kimberly McCarthy, was #500. She brutally murdered her neighbor with a butcher knife and cut off her finger for her ring. She probably killed two other elderly women but was not tried for those killings. But DNA evidence linked her to those killings, just as it did to the one she got the death penalty over.

If you want to be a killer move up north.  Congratulations to Texas for executing killers and protecting the innocent. It is wise to keep a gun on you or in your house (a 12 gauge shotgun filled with 00 buckshot is ideal) to protect yourself and your family from the freaks that are out there who don't mind snuffing your life out "just because" or so you won't be around to finger them when they steal your stuff.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted July 01, 2013 02:44 PM

But why do you think it's so massive in Texas, do all the scumbags happen to be born there? And if death penalty works so fine, how come nothing changed since the early eighties? Shouldn't Texas be like the ideal state when it comes to crime according to your theory? How come there are countries with murder rates like 2 to 3 a year, yet you guys find yourself executing another first-rate killer almost every month?

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 01, 2013 03:34 PM

Why is a surprise? You can get easily a weapon in US, therefore the criminality % should not be a mystery.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted July 01, 2013 04:09 PM

Yes, but Texas is wilder compared to even rest of the US. Now, since they are the ones so loose on death penalty, you might have thought it will have some kind of effect at least on crimes that are punishable by death, but as we can see, death penalty has absolutely no effect on crime rate and they keep executing them like a sausage factory produces sausage.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 01, 2013 04:23 PM

While nice people keep saying that criminality is a result of a social politic failure, I still think that big part of it is due to genetics and is unavoidable. Just look at that video, the guy is there to steal, yet he keeps brutally kicking that woman again and again. This has nothing to do with his poverty, lack of job etc. He is an animal inside.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted July 01, 2013 04:30 PM

There is not just one reason. Of course, if you have some kind of mental illness it can be the pure reason of turning into a criminal, yet, since there are differences between crime rates of countries and even differences between crime rates of a single city from decade to decade, social/political factors are not to be ignored.

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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted July 01, 2013 05:45 PM

Quote:
Yes, but Texas is wilder compared to even rest of the US. Now, since they are the ones so loose on death penalty, you might have thought it will have some kind of effect at least on crimes that are punishable by death, but as we can see, death penalty has absolutely no effect on crime rate and they keep executing them like a sausage factory produces sausage.


Uh huh.

Texas is a border state, bordering with Mexico, which is a murder capital of the world. A lot of gang violence spills over into Texas and Texans are victims of Mexican crime. A lot of the criminals in Texas prisons are Mexicans.

Texas is also quite a huge state.

Washington absolutely refuses to control the border and Obama has ICE agents releasing even known criminals back into the streets rather than deporting them.

Even in Texas, unfortunately the majority of murderers are not executed. If they were I think you'd see an even bigger drop in murder as a result.

Clicky
Quote:

Also revealed within the Times study, but not pointed out by them,: "One-third of the nation's executions take place in Texas—and the steepest decline in homicides has occurred in Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana and Arkansas, which together account for nearly half the nation's executions." (4)

And, the Times also failed to mention that the major US jurisdiction with the most executions is Harris County (Houston, Texas), which has seen a 73% decrease in murder rates since resuming executions in 1982 -- possibly the largest reduction for a major metropolitan area since that time.

Also omitted from the Times review, although they had the data, is that during a virtual cessation of executions, from 1966-1980, that murders more than doubled in the US.




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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted July 01, 2013 05:58 PM

Texas population in 2012 - 26,059,203

Germany population in 2012 - 80,399,300
France population in 2012 - 65,350,000
UK population in 2012 - 63,181,775
Italy population in 2012 - 59,685,227

And so on. Most of these countries host multinational and multicultural population. Check the crime rates, murders, etc. yourself.

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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 01, 2013 08:56 PM
Edited by fred79 at 02:20, 08 Aug 2013.

Quote:
I do not care about the motivations behind someone who threatens.
If there's an immediate and dangerous threat, you shouldn't. The question however is about the attitude. You admit that you couldn't care less why someone commits a crime if he does it so you're highly unlikely to ever see my point.


what difference does the attitude make? the results are the same. you are nitpicking. and i wasn't talking about just crime, zenofex. you're taking me out of context. i was talking about violent crime, directed at me or my loved ones.

try to pay closer attention, huh? if you could better understand me, maybe i could better understand you.

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ChaosHydra
ChaosHydra


Famous Hero
posted July 15, 2013 03:58 PM

I'm glad this Zimmerman circus is finally over. The media overhyped that *bleep*

I do sense some retaliation attacks however.

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