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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Right to Self Defense, Gun Ownership, and Deterence of Crime
Thread: Right to Self Defense, Gun Ownership, and Deterence of Crime This thread is 55 pages long: 1 10 20 30 40 ... 45 46 47 48 49 ... 50 55 · «PREV / NEXT»
Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
posted May 09, 2013 09:36 PM

Where did you come from ...
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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
posted May 09, 2013 10:11 PM
Edited by Tsar-Ivor at 22:19, 09 May 2013.

Quote:
object against my right to shoot you in the face.


You have no automatic right to shoot me in the face, you have the right to choose that option in life, but that will result in unfavorable consequences.
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted May 09, 2013 10:34 PM

You're kind of missing the point (and fred's missing it by half a solar system) - who will stop me from assigning myself all the "rights" I want if I just have to repent after I do something nasty? I can repent after 20 years and after shooting 10 more people in the face but hey, I'm not beyond salvation, right?

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted May 09, 2013 10:38 PM
Edited by artu at 22:53, 09 May 2013.

Doesn't that question belong in the religion thread? What's that got to do with gun laws?

Edit: Sorry, I re-read the post you were referring to, but the rehabilitation in prison isn't supposed to be like that anyway, it's very hard to get out because of good behavior, you are on parole when you do, and if you go back to jail you can't repeat the same pattern 20 times. So it's not like the salvation in religion's forgiveness.

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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
posted May 09, 2013 10:50 PM
Edited by Tsar-Ivor at 22:52, 09 May 2013.

You make it sound like repentance happens over-night, or it's something that just falls out of the blue.

To answer your question, nothing is stopping you, if you decide to shoot 10 people in the face then you will receive appropriate punishment for the decision that you freely made. You may repent, but I sincerely doubt that society will ever give you a second chance.

Edit: I wasn't talking about religious interpretation of repentance, I meant the acknowledgement of wrongdoing and seeking to reform yourself.

Id est:
Quote:
remorse for your past conduct.

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted May 09, 2013 11:04 PM

OK, another try - if nobody puts me in jail, what's stopping me from shooting those 10 people in their faces before I finally figure out how bad is to shoot people in the faces?

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted May 09, 2013 11:07 PM

Quote:
So it's not like the salvation in religion's forgiveness.


According to Jesus teachings, we can sin/kill/murder 70x7 times and obtain forgiveness. Hopefully there is a law down here, or world would go crazy.
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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
posted May 09, 2013 11:21 PM
Edited by Tsar-Ivor at 23:23, 09 May 2013.

Quote:
OK, another try - if nobody puts me in jail, what's stopping me from shooting those 10 people in their faces before I finally figure out how bad is to shoot people in the faces?


Is shooting people in the faces bad though?

The individual in question obviously doesn't think so, but in society you need to behave in an acceptable way, shooting 10 people is not acceptable, so in order to live you must either restrain yourself or live apart from society.

Once the deed is done you still have this option, by repenting you do not magically become a saint, nor might you consider your past actions as bad, just inapplicable to society.

Just applied a possibility to your hypothesis.
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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted May 10, 2013 04:47 AM

Obama has used the DOD to force printable guns off the internet. The dems are calling for a 3D print gun ban.  Silly dems. Criminals and lunatics don't care about their gun control laws.

Clicky

Quote:

The world's first 3D-printed handgun, The Liberator, has had its liberty taken away by the government.

Plans for the working handgun were posted online Monday by Cody Wilson, founder of Defense Distributed, potentially allowing anyone with access to a 3D printer to make a firearm from plastic. The plans, which had been in the works for months, caused alarm among gun control advocates but were seen by some Second Amendment advocates as a breakthrough. More than 100,000 copies of the plans were downloaded before the federal government took the files.

“[Defense Distributed's] files are being removed from public access at the request of the U.S. Department of Defense Trade Controls," read a banner atop the website. "Until further notice, the United States government claims control of the information.”

.....

"If this is an attempt to control the info from getting out there, it's clearly a weak one," he said, adding that the CAD design for the weapon has already spread across the Internet at downloading sites like the Pirate Bay

.....

Defense Distributed is a not-for-profit group founded by Wilson, a law student at the University of Texas. He said the Liberator project was intended to highlight how technology can render laws and governments all but irrelevant.

.....

U.S. Rep. Steve Israel, D-N.Y., has already called for national legislation to ban 3D-printed guns.

"Security checkpoints, background checks and gun regulations will do little good if criminals can print plastic firearms at home and bring those firearms through metal detectors with no one the wiser," Israel said.

"When I started talking about the issue of plastic firearms months ago, I was told the idea of a plastic gun is science-fiction," he added. "Now that this technology is proven, we need to act now to extend the ban on plastic firearms."



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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted May 10, 2013 05:07 AM
Edited by artu at 05:08, 10 May 2013.

Quote:
Obama has used the DOD to force printable guns off the internet. The dems are calling for a 3D print gun ban.  Silly dems. Criminals and lunatics don't care about their gun control laws.


What's the angle here? Since criminals won't obey laws anyway, guns should be downloadable like mp3 files?

(If the technology comes to that, I can't see how it will be controllable even if they decide to, but that's another problem.)

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 10, 2013 10:31 AM

Come on, let's just throw all laws outta the window, since lunatics and criminals won't obey them anyway, which means laws are against the basic human right of equal opportunities for everyone with a decent education.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted May 10, 2013 11:29 AM

Quote:
Come on, let's just throw all laws outta the window, since lunatics and criminals won't obey them anyway, which means laws are against the basic human right of equal opportunities for everyone with a decent education.


and that sums up the logic of Elodin on the matter.

And let me for the 9001th time underline, that it's not easy to get a gun in a country that bans guns. Go ahead and try if you don't believe me.
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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted May 12, 2013 10:51 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Come on, let's just throw all laws outta the window, since lunatics and criminals won't obey them anyway, which means laws are against the basic human right of equal opportunities for everyone with a decent education.


and that sums up the logic of Elodin on the matter.

And let me for the 9001th time underline, that it's not easy to get a gun in a country that bans guns. Go ahead and try if you don't believe me.


No, that does not sum up my arguments on the matter.

The Constitution states I have the right to keep and bear[carry] arms. Infringing on my rights will not stop criminals or lunatics from possessing a gun or from using a gun to murder someone.

Murder and robberies were around long before guns came along. Murder comes from a condition of the human "heart," not from possession of a gun or any other weapon.

If all honest people would carry a gun when the lunatics or criminals decided to go on a shooting spree they could be stopped a lot sooner.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted May 12, 2013 10:58 PM

Indeed, now is too late to ban guns in US. But not too late to acknowledge your fathers were plain wrong while stuck in their era, and make mea culpa (VERY unlikely I guess). Because facts are against you: when guns are banned, there is less criminality.
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GunFred
GunFred


Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
posted May 12, 2013 11:05 PM
Edited by GunFred at 23:06, 12 May 2013.

Quote:
Indeed, now is too late to ban guns in US. But not too late to acknowledge your fathers were plain wrong while stuck in their era, and make mea culpa (VERY unlikely I guess). Because facts are against you: when guns are banned, there is less criminality.

To be fair, the american colonials lived in a different world. Natives to murder, european tyranny to fight off and many other dangers like outlaws and wildlife. They could not possibly know that guns would evolve so much and even if they could, shaping laws in the present to suit the environment of several centuries later is not a good idea.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted May 12, 2013 11:21 PM

It took up to 1 minute to load a gun at that time. Imagine today, you attack someone, "please can you hold on one minute" because I missed?
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del_diablo
del_diablo


Legendary Hero
Manifest
posted May 13, 2013 12:53 PM

Quote:
If all honest people would carry a gun when the lunatics or criminals decided to go on a shooting spree they could be stopped a lot sooner.


Would it not be easier to admit that you have a large gun problem, that the cops are outside of real response range, and that you have a large gun problem?
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted May 13, 2013 01:39 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 13:45, 13 May 2013.

The only problem US has is with the loony liberals. Of course

And yes, it's too late to ban guns in US. America is hopeless in that matter and I can't possibly see its murder rates going down to European values, not possible with their mentality. Just look at Elodin, killing is nothing to him. He wouldn't hesitate one second to blow someone's brains out and wouldn't lose any sleep over it. On the other hand, most people (me included) would probably feel traumatised over taking life, even in self-defense. Killing just isn't part of our nature, justified or not.

(and no, I don't want stupid comments like "would you rather be dead or kill a guy in self defense" - I don't want to debate which of the evils is lesser and why, it's pointless. If you want to debate on it, try something along the lines of "would you rather throw away a fat guy off the raft and let him drown, or make the raft drown with all of you on it because of his weight")
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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted May 13, 2013 05:59 PM

Quote:
Just look at Elodin, killing is nothing to him. He wouldn't hesitate one second to blow someone's brains out and wouldn't lose any sleep over it. On the other hand, most people (me included) would probably feel traumatised over taking life, even in self-defense. Killing just isn't part of our nature, justified or not.



Untrue. Killing in any situation is not a light thing. But killing is sometimes necessary. War is forced on a nation or one must defend oneself or someone else with lethal force.

I'd wager you'd find it less traumatic to kill a home invader than to allow the home invader to kill your family because you failed to provide the necessary defense for your family.
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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted June 27, 2013 06:59 PM

This is why you need a gun to defend your home.

Clicky
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