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| Thread: Balkans and the EU |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted May 29, 2011 10:03 AM |
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From the viewpoint of a Western European as myself, it's far from unproblematic to include the Eastern European / Balkan contries in the EU. There's a huge echonomical difference between Eastern Europe and Western Europe in general. That doesn't exclude a community - far from - but I think the EU was build around a concept where the countries were much more uniform in their echonomical (and possibly also their political) situation than is the case between east and west.
Don't worry, the public opinion here is the same. We are well aware that we are not living in the same Europe as you and this will be very difficult to change (and unnecessary in certain regards).
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In many western countries there is a fear that the free migration rights included in the EU will course an economical burden which will undermine the social systems here
From what I know such process has already started even without us, in particular in Germany and France and of course the UK - but the latter are a partial exception as always. I fully understand these concerns and I suppose if the Balkan states enter the Schengen area - which should happen shortly for Bulgaria and Romania - there will be a nice wave of gastarbeiters to the West who will accept to work for 50-60% of the regular salary for the respective profession. Each country has the right to veto the immediate access to its labour market for some time though so it ultimately depends on what the respective government wants. If the government says "Yeah, you are free to come" because it wants to cheapen the cost of production in certain economy sectors, then it's only natural that the foreign workers will respond. In any case, this outflow of workforce is more damaging to our economies than to those of the Western states. Somebody has to produce goods and services here as well but more and more people prefer to do it elsewhere.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted May 29, 2011 10:53 AM |
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Quote:
In many western countries there is a fear that the free migration rights included in the EU will course an economical burden which will undermine the social systems here
From what I know such process has already started even without us, in particular in Germany and France and of course the UK - but the latter are a partial exception as always. I fully understand these concerns and I suppose if the Balkan states enter the Schengen area - which should happen shortly for Bulgaria and Romania - there will be a nice wave of gastarbeiters to the West who will accept to work for 50-60% of the regular salary for the respective profession. Each country has the right to veto the immediate access to its labour market for some time though so it ultimately depends on what the respective government wants. If the government says "Yeah, you are free to come" because it wants to cheapen the cost of production in certain economy sectors, then it's only natural that the foreign workers will respond. In any case, this outflow of workforce is more damaging to our economies than to those of the Western states. Somebody has to produce goods and services here as well but more and more people prefer to do it elsewhere.
I think it's a good point that they flow of labour is a bad thing for the departed countries as well. In a way, for us I guess it's a bit of a luxury problem in some ways, but I know that many areas of craft labour in Denmark has been hard pressed by polish workers working at half price of what the Danish do - and I think they attempts to convince people that Danish workers are better (and hence worth more money) have not really been succesfull. Obviously, if one takes a liberal "live and let live" stand, the Danish workers will just have to adapt, but a lot of the more left-wing political parties obviously have their roots in that part of the population and hence fight against it.
I myself don't quite know what is right and wrong. I'm not myself part of the group who's pressed for work, so it's easy for me to say we should just let things evolve freely. I think it's an important part of the danish society that we have a very well-established social system and that work conditions and payment is reasonable for everybody, even those who don't have a long education, but obviously this conflicts with the open Europe project, so I don't know which is the right path to choose - because obviously isolation is not going to do good either.
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What will happen now?
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted May 29, 2011 11:46 AM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 11:50, 29 May 2011.
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You ask why?
The EU is already still having problems with last waves of new member states from 2004 and 2007. To enter the EU not only the member states need to be ready but the EU as well. There are few criteria needed one of them - the Union to be ready to "absobate" the new member and work fine with it. The problem is that the EU have problem functionating with all this member states. 27 in the Consel, 29 in the EC. Imagine how 27 people vote like one. Now imagine 35, how...
The institutions were build to work with 15 members, hey are now 27. This make the EU slow and efective enough. The ex head jurist of the EU - prof. Jean Paul Jacque think the same way. There are no ready sates for join, the Union isn't ready as well.
The institutions need reforms, the reforms from Lisabon and Nitza tried exactly to solve this problem, but it didn't worked fine.
After the Amsterdam reformthere is an idea for different types of membership (not reality still). Full one and lower.
Most of the EU law specialist belave that Bulgaria was never ready for the EU but EU needed it to they can "link" with Turkey and Greece. This way they can use us as transint zone. That's why all they are helping it to build roads. They also bealiave that no more Balkan states are ready or will ever be ready to join (except for Croatia). And that Turkey will soon or late join, when the EU is ready but most likely with not full membership. Many fear that Turkey is going to "swallow" The EU. Or at least part ot it.
About the problems with ethnics here - it's all thanks to the Ottoman slavery.
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Galileo
Known Hero
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posted June 19, 2012 02:05 PM |
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Relly, Bulgaria and Romania weren't ready for EU. They've just let them join, with no requirements. From the other side, they demanded countless requirements from Croatia. Also, it seems Serbia will also join, but with less requirements.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted June 22, 2012 01:55 AM |
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Edited by Seraphim at 02:07, 22 Jun 2012.
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Since people resurfaced this thread, I would love to add one more thing.
Serbia should not have any problem on joining the EU. The problem of Kosovo can be seen in a different light. Look at Cyprus for example, 30% of the country is under turkish control. Its still in the EU.
Needless to say,once serbia gets into the EU, Kosovo will be a nice "Insert bad thing here" black hole, as if it was not already.
it wont be able to access EU, it wont be able to take part in international meetings. People that live in Kosovo must suffer bureaucratic bs from EU, lasting corruption,low income and crime.
Of course, restarting talks with serbia would be political suicide, not to mention the possibility that serbia would wipe us out by the time EU or NATO would be gone.
Obviously, this bleak future is reason enough to get the hell out of Kosovo. Point is, where?
What the hell should people do in a place that is controled by thugs? And there is no end to cronyism in Kosovo.
I have to ask you europeans a question. What would you do if the place you live in is complete and absolute mess?
You dont care,do you?
And then,why is there so much discrimination for people that live in Kosovo?
People from Macedonia and Serbia-Montenegro have far less bureaucratic problems when traveling to EU.
Religious favoritism?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=GgyxhRvyRMw&NR=1
This video even 44 years later still holds truth for the most parts of the world.
http://online.usip.org/analysis/4_1_3.php
"Undeterred by Albanian protest, Milosevic cracked down in Kosovo. His regime set about removing Albanian employees from state institutions. Albanians were fired from their jobs in schools, hospitals, factories, and public administration."
Discrimination has been a tradition in Kosovo. With the ottomans,serbs,bulgars, Romans and so on....
That article shows what happened in the 90s...
I thereby ask my serb "Neighbours" here, would you want to be discriminated?
As I said before, people consider EU the solution to this problem, which it is not.
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted July 01, 2013 06:47 AM |
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update
Croatia joined the EU today!
Thanks to the recent talks with Kosovo, Serbia is expected to enter the process early next year.
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