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Elodin
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posted June 05, 2011 05:20 AM |
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Killing yourself is not dignified. It is a coward's way out.
Saying someone's life is worthless is not dignified. It is perverse. Of course I realize certain philosophies place no more value on a human life than on a pile of cow manure but most people believe differently.
My mother is dependent on others for the most basic bodily functions. Her life is worth living regardless of what others say. When she began to lose her sense of balance and control of her legs I helped her walk twice a week as long as she could lean on me and stand up. My father feeds her twice a day and a nurse feeds her breakfast. She wears adult diapers and is dependent on the nurses to change her. We can seldom understand her any more when she tries to talk but sometimes she can speak clearly and make simple sentences. She has never expressed a desire to have us kill her. I and my family still love Mom and treasure the time we still have with her. She has grandchildren and great grandchildren who are learning more about life and they still love to go see their Granny even if she is not like she used to be.
Some people simply don't believe that human life has innate value and dignity. I pity those people.
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JollyJoker
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posted June 05, 2011 09:14 AM |
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Stop judging others.
If someone expresses a wish to die, because he/she can't stand it anymore, who are you to say he/she is a coward?
And it has nothing to do with the value of life - only with the value one's own life has for oneself, and there is only one judge for that, and that's the one who suffers. And if a God exists and HE places more value on that life, then YOU have STILL absolutely no say in it whatsoever and absolutely no right to judge.
We are not talking about FORCED euthanisia here or something, so stop behaving that way.
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Elodin
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posted June 06, 2011 06:20 PM |
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Stop judging others.
If someone expresses a wish to die, because he/she can't stand it anymore, who are you to say he/she is a coward?
And it has nothing to do with the value of life - only with the value one's own life has for oneself, and there is only one judge for that, and that's the one who suffers. And if a God exists and HE places more value on that life, then YOU have STILL absolutely no say in it whatsoever and absolutely no right to judge.
We are not talking about FORCED euthanisia here or something, so stop behaving that way.
Dude I did not judge them. I stated that an action is cowardly. Running from the situation and thinking of only yourself is cowardly and selfish.
Oh yeah, it has everything to do with the value of human life. But like I said certain philosophies simply place no innate value on human life. When such persons see someone else as having no value to society it is time for that person to die in their minds. Eugenics, the progressive way.
I certainly do have a right to address actions, and in fact the Bible tells me to do so. Murder is sin according to the Bible. Suicide is self murder. Saying what God says is not judging anyone.
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Corribus
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posted June 06, 2011 06:44 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 18:57, 06 Jun 2011.
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I see nothing wrong with it. A person's life is their own to live or end, as I see it.
As for whether it is cowardly to kill oneself... well, for one thing it's not illegal or even immoral to be a coward so this doesn't really have any bearing on the rightness of suicide, assisted or otherwise. For another, it's easy to call a man a coward before you've stood in his shoes. I can't imagine ever wanting to kill myself, but then again I've never had stage 4 stomach cancer either. If I'm ever in so much pain that I can't see straight and condemned to forever poop in a plastic bag and eat through a tube in my nose, I might feel differently about the value of continuing to live. And maybe I won't. One thing I know is that's it's a personal decision, and we should all be so lucky to determine the time and method of our passing. I can think of worse ways to check out than saying a final goodbye and then taking an infinitely long and painless nap.
EDIT: Having thought about it for another few minutes, I must say that I really don't understand how cowardice can even be applied (nevermind that it's completely irrelevant). A person wants to die because they're in complete agony, and this is chalked up to fear? Fear of what, exactly? 
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JollyJoker
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posted June 07, 2011 07:10 AM |
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Edited by Mytical at 23:31, 08 Jun 2011.
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@ Elodin
Your God can speak for himself, if he has something to say. If not, don't speak in his name. And especially, don't JUDGE in his name. That's presumption. Leave the judgement to your God.
People have the right to go to hell, and by the way, it's called KILLING oneself, not murdering. You are not the one who defines what constitutes killing and what murder. If you want to guess your God's stance on the matter, that is fine, but it has no bearing on the issue, because it's not our task to judge his stuff when we find things acceptable.
For example, if we think, that homosexuality is a thing between consenting adults and God we can safely leave them be and leave the moral judgement to God.
WE judge for different reasons.
Also, we are neither in the war nor in the army, so you cannot court-martial people for cowardice before the enemy. Also, it is easy to call people cowards, when you don't have to fight.
So give me a reason for why HUMAN laws should forbid it. For what reason? With animals we consider it an act of mercy - it's something good. We would judge someone who didn't and say, that guy lets his dog suffer needlessly. What a jerk.
Now, why doesn't apply that to humans?
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del_diablo
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posted June 07, 2011 02:17 PM |
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Stop judging others.
If someone expresses a wish to die, because he/she can't stand it anymore, who are you to say he/she is a coward?
And it has nothing to do with the value of life - only with the value one's own life has for oneself, and there is only one judge for that, and that's the one who suffers. And if a God exists and HE places more value on that life, then YOU have STILL absolutely no say in it whatsoever and absolutely no right to judge.
We are not talking about FORCED euthanisia here or something, so stop behaving that way.
Dude I did not judge them. I stated that an action is cowardly. Running from the situation and thinking of only yourself is cowardly and selfish.
Running from a situation implies there exists a way to fix it.
If you are in a situation where you actually want to kill yourself, you can no longer fix the situation.
Given the choice of being brutally hunted down by a SWAT team, and running away from them.... what would you do? Your best option against them if you choice to stay to is to kill yourself by rigging your entire neighborhood with explosives, making sure they do not survive it, and you can only do that if you are an demolition expert.
For us normal mortals, we will be unable to fight back....
As for asking for help to kill oneself? They have already broken 1 large mental barrier, and are likely in incurable large pain.
I can even give an example: You are suffering from severe Tinnitus, you hear a extreme sound 24 hours and 7 days a week, and there is no cure. The sound is even painful to hear........
How much permanent pain and permanent exhaustion can you take before you realize the only way to get rid of the condition per date is to kill yourself?
This is a valid example for a reason: There already exists a lot of suicides related to this, they keep hearing a sound that can not be gotten used too, directly to their sensory input, and they will after some time be in a severe pain over this.
They can not be cowards, because it is the only solution. It is like somebody stabbing you with daggers coated with a mild poison, permanently.
It is not like the case of severe depression(basically a part of your brain works like it is broken), or normal severe pain(all you have to do is to endure it until it goes away).
And any doctor with brains will give you some powerful painkillers for the second case, just to avoid you from killing yourself due the pain being completely unbearable even if it goes away if given enough time.
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Elodin
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posted June 07, 2011 02:21 PM |
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Edited by Mytical at 23:32, 08 Jun 2011.
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@ Elodin
You are ranting again.
Your God can speak for himself, if he has something to say.
Actually, God said for Christians to speak out against evil.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
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If not, don't speak in his name. And especially, don't JUDGE in his name. That's presumption. Leave the judgement to your God.
Dude, I'm a Christian. I speak from the rational viewpoint of Christianity.
Saying what God says in the Bible about sin is not judging dude. God judged what is sin and I proclaim what God said.
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People have the right to go to hell, and by the way, it's called KILLING oneself, not murdering.
Every life belongs to God. God gave no one the moral right to end their own life. Suicide is self murder.
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For example, if we think, that homosexuality is a thing between consenting adults and God we can safely leave them be and leave the moral judgement to God.
God already expressed his judgement on that issue.
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So give me a reason for why HUMAN laws should forbid it.
Because it is immoral and done out of depression. The person needs mental help not to be shot in the head.
Now I'm off to jury duty.
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JollyJoker
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posted June 07, 2011 02:54 PM |
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Edited by Mytical at 23:37, 08 Jun 2011.
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Who cares about what God says?
For example, we do not care about what God says about homosexuality. And a lot of other things.
That's because we leave the judgement about moral things to God.
We judge other things and for other reasons, and what God thinks about an issue, is of no relevance whatsoever, because God can make his own judgement later.
There is no passage in the Bible where God or Jesus says something about suicide. The way YOU make a difference between killing and murder for the purpose of the 6th commandment, you can make the same claim for suicide: if a healthy 16-year-old jumps from a tower for no apparent reason it might be considered murder - but the murderer is already not part of the earthly justice anymore, so the question is academic.
If a 90-year-old can't live anymore with the permanent pain of some crue illss, then suicide is simply self-defence against the overwhelming attack of the own body, and the question is, whether we will help him with his self-defense or whether we let him rot.
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Azagal
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posted June 07, 2011 03:58 PM |
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Well let me get my thoughts in before this becomes a discussion about what Elodin can or can't say for God and how inherently rational christianity is, etc. etc.
I agree with Elodin to a degree. I also think suicide is the cowards way out since rather than face a problem and solve it or deal with it they just chose to make it all stop and refuse to take responsability for anything. So killing yourself is just the easy way out. The thing is my point of view depends on whether whatever they're tired of dealing with is solveable or not.
People who are terminally ill or suffer from a chronic illness should not be condemned to suffer until they die.
If they are sane enough to make the decision for themselves we should relieve them from their pain, it's nonsenseical to have people suffer incredible pain and lose all their dignity because of some misplaced sense of idealism.
The point is if people know what's going to happen to them and all there is waiting for them is pain, suffering and indignity without any chance of survival bar a miracle they should most certainly be allowed to prevent that from happening to them.
Like JJ said this has nothing to do with other people giving their lives worth or not, these people will make the decision on their own. And if they were still in a state where their consent is legally relevant it's all ok.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Corribus
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posted June 07, 2011 05:54 PM |
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@Az
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So killing yourself is just the easy way out.
Just for the sake of argument: supposing you are correct and killing oneself is "easy", what exactly is wrong with doing something that is "easy"? Why should we turn up our noses at someone who chooses an easier path? Is the difficult path inherently more noble, more honorable, more courageous, or more moral? I still don't see how doing something "easy" is tantamount to cowardice.
(Frankly, I could just as easily argue it the other way - stubbornly clinging on to life and making yourself and your loved ones suffer because you fear to die is the cowardly choice.)
Nevermind that, I don't see how killing oneself is necessarily an "easy" choice.
A more pertinant question is why our society tolerates as a routine practice the euthanasia of sick or dying pets but will not tolerate the euthanasis of sick or dying humans. Is human life more valued than other animal life? Why? Interestingly, we kill our pets out of supposed compassion, yet apparently the value of "human life" as an abstract, generalized entity trumps our moral compulsion to exercise compassion to specific human lives that we supposedly value more highly than others. On the same token, we don't value "human life" so much that we're willing to kill for self preservation if it comes to that. That is, we value "human life" more than we value our moral duties to highly valued people, yet we value "human life" less than our need for self-preservation.
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Azagal
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posted June 07, 2011 06:41 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 18:47, 07 Jun 2011.
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Heehe I probably didn't express myself properly Corribus but yeah I'll play ball
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@Az
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So killing yourself is just the easy way out.
Just for the sake of argument: supposing you are correct and killing oneself is "easy", what exactly is wrong with doing something that is "easy"? Why should we turn up our noses at someone who chooses an easier path? Is the difficult path inherently more noble, more honorable, more courageous, or more moral? I still don't see how doing something "easy" is tantamount to cowardice.
I wasn't trying to say that easy equals cowardice in general.
My problem with suicide is that it is the most selfish and lazy thing to do if you do it due to a problem you can solve with or without professional help.
To me suicide is an escape. Sure life is hard at times and there can be a lot of suffering and misery but if you are faced with a problem the solution is to solve it not to run away from it. Where will running get you? Nowhere, perhaps you'll be fine for a while but sooner or later you'll run into something else and if you just keep running you'll eventually not be able to run anymore and taking a stand then will be near impossible.
Now suicide is a way to sidestep the "problems catching up with you" part. People who face their troubles or have others help them overcome their struggles will come back a stronger person from the ordeal. Ergo confronting a problem is better than avoiding it, which makes fighting on better than running. It doesn't make running bad or dispicable in general it's just that out of the two options it is the more respectable one.
Life is hard and I can respect people who will deal with it rather than run away from that. That doesn't mean I can't like or respect people who run away from things you don't have to confront everything (you still should sooner rather than later...) but if you're at the crossroad of either killing yourself or dealing with life I most certainly think the person who choses to fight and struggle is the bigger one than the guy who doesn't even try or stops trying.
The point is that with suicide you're not only affecting yourself (at least most of the time) you have people that care about you that want to help you. With suicide you only solve everything for yourself but you make everyone who ever cared about you suffer because you weren't strong enough to either go on or ask people to help you through your time of need.
I'm not trying to say that easy=cowardice not at all. But where suicide is concerned it is. Look I've never been in the situation of wanting to kill myself and I'm sure people who want to kill themselves don't arrive at the decision without severe difficulty but ultimately they chose to end it so obviously they think that compared to whatever issue they're having death is a desireable alternative.
If the issue isn't something out of your or others ability to solve then by commiting suicide all you do is spare yourself the struggle to arrive at the solution because you didn't want to fight to get there. Wouldn't you say that that's taking the easy way out?
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(Frankly, I could just as easily argue it the other way - stubbornly clinging on to life and making yourself and your loved ones suffer because you fear to die is the cowardly choice.)
Nevermind that, I don't see how killing oneself is necessarily an "easy" choice.
See you either missunderstood me or my english is probably just letting me down again... you are talking about someone who refuses to commit suicide because he is afraid of death. In your example the individual is suffering greatly due to some illness (that is if I understood you correctly) in your example being stubborn and fighting on isn't going to get you anywhere (assuming it's something terminal). I'm for assited suicide Corr not against it if doctors can definetly tell you that you will die unless some miracle occours. No person should have to watch him- or herself die and endure tremendous suffering if they have no other choice.
I can't think of anything worse than being a sane human being with a good life and then watch yourself become nothing but a shadow of your former proud self, pain can only make that worse.
For me assisted suicide should be about offering people who have no future a way to go out in dignity and peace, not a free get out of jail card for those who still have their life ahead of them but they chose not to go on when they could because it's hard.
Is this any clearer?
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Corribus
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posted June 07, 2011 09:04 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 21:11, 07 Jun 2011.
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@Az
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I wasn't trying to say that easy equals cowardice in general.
My problem with suicide is that it is the most selfish and lazy thing to do if you do it due to a problem you can solve with or without professional help.
Do you have a problem with laziness and selfishness in general, I wonder? Surely you have acted lazy or selfish before. Is it not a person's right to act exclusively in their self-interest, so long as it doesn't interfere with someone else's rights? Is it not a person's right to be lazy?
As for motive, you seem to be distinguishing between someone who wants to kill themselves at the end of a terminal illness, and someone who is, say, just clinically depressed. While I think this distinguishment makes a sort of sense at the surface, when you think about it a little more deeply, the line is more blurry than originally you might think.
Consider.
Aside from some unusual cases, most people contemplating suicide are ill in some way. Either they are suffering from a great deal of pain due to, say, cancer, or they are clinically depressed. I think few people would criticize a very ill cancer patient who decides, after years of fighting, to decline further attempts at radiation or chemotherapy treatment when he learns that his cancer has returned again. Opting for palliative care at this point is really little more than passive suicide. (Heck, at this point even the line between suicide and "natural" death is even blurred.) I doubt you would criticize this person for "being lazy" or "selfish", even if this is a problem that could, technically, be "solved with or without professional help".
On the other hand, you, like many others, find it easy to criticize a clinically depressed person for choosing suicide rather than taking medication or undergoing extensive psychotherapy. You would criticize this person for "being lazy" or "selfish", because this is a problem that could, technically, be "solved with or without professional help."
Why do we find comfort in impugning the one person but not the other? Well, for one thing our society doesn't really respect mental illness like it does physical illness. We pity cancer patients but for some reason have a "he should suck it up" attitude when it comes to people who have clinical depression or serious neuroses/psychoses. In some cases we almost blame the mentally ill for being that way, as if it is somehow their fault. They want to kill themselves? Meh, they're just lazy, can't face their problems, selfish snows, am I right? I could pontificate on why that might be but it's not important unless you want me to. It's true that this mental illness may be a very good reason why they should NOT be allowed to commit suicide (because they're not within their right minds - but you're going to have to work to convince me on this point), but I don't think laziness is an acceptable reason to deny someone the right to do what they want to do.
For another thing, we don't really recognize mental illness as being life threatening. People aren't likely to DIE if they don't get treatment, and so we see suicide as a cheap way out. (Although, I stress again that I've yet to see a convincing argument why someone, even a perfectly healthy someone, shouldn't be able to check out of life whenever they want to.) Mentally ill patients don't appear to be in any outward discomfort (excruciating pain, say), but then again this could be our society's tendency to undervalue the severe effects of mental illness. So what relief does suicide actually provide, eh? Also they're more likely to be young, physically healthy, have families and other responsibilities, etc., and so we see suicide as threatening to other innocent people. On the other hand, physically ill people are perceived to be close to dying anyway in the near term, so we are more likely to have a "what difference does it make" attitude toward their choice to die. They also tend to be older and have few other responsibilities, and they're usually in a lot of clear discomfort - we see them laying in a hospital bed, with lots of machines, no control over bowels, barfing and vomiting, their hair falling out, moaning because of pain. It's much easier for a healthy person to empathize with this condition and to see how maybe suicide would be an attractive option. It's hard to empathize with a physically healthy but mentally ill patient who wants to die. What's wrong with them? They're just lazy and selfish, suck it up. Right?
I'll also note that depression and severe physical illness often go hand in hand. Suicide may provide the terminal cancer patient with relief from both physical as well as mental/emotional agony. Don't discount that.
In any case, we can talk about whether suicide is a moral choice, but legally - unless we're talking about assisted suicide - it's sort of a moot point. You can't really try someone for killing themselves, after all. As for assisted suicide, I find it hard to understand why we allow a person to sign DNR orders, which tell a doctor not to use life-saving measures, or allow a person to opt for palliative care rather than aggressive treatment in the case of terminal illnesses, but we suddenly balk when it comes to injecting a terminally ill person with a lethal drug - when they ask for it - to expedite the process. Both come down ultimately to choosing to die under a specific set of circumstances. The only difference is that in one case someone is actively pulling the trigger and in the other case they're not. (Similar indeed to the speeding train thought experiment I brought up in my moral dilemmas thread).
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I'm not trying to say that easy=cowardice not at all. But where suicide is concerned it is.
Why? What are they afraid of? To be a coward you have to be afraid of something. Laziness maybe I could see. But coward? It's like someone calling me a coward because I feel like watching television instead of mowing the lawn.
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Wouldn't you say that that's taking the easy way out?
I don't know. I don't think it would be easy to kill myself. If it was so easy, a lot more people would be doing it.
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For me assisted suicide should be about offering people who have no future a way to go out in dignity and peace, not a free get out of jail card for those who still have their life ahead of them but they chose not to go on when they could because it's hard.
Well that's fine of course, but I don't see why anyone should be required to go on living if they don't want to. Nobody is asked whether they wanted to live in the first place. People do all sorts of horrible things to their families, their friends, their bodies, and we look the other way. If life was so precious, why do we allow people to smoke, to skydive, to eat fatty foods, to have unprotected sex, all in the same of self-interest and pleasure? Our society tolerates adultury, lying, cheating, backstabbing, hatred, bad parenting, etc. Why won't it tolerate suicide, no matter how it makes anyone else feel? In all other things we allow people to do as they please, within the limits of what infringes on the rights of other people, but when it comes to the most basic of choices - whether to live or die - we say, "NOPE, not up to you!"
Why?
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gnomes2169
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posted June 07, 2011 09:26 PM |
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Why?
We humans don't like to be reminded of our own mortality.
That's it. Sorry I don't make a wall (seems to be the "in" thing to do lately)... 
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
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Corribus
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posted June 07, 2011 09:30 PM |
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We humans don't like to be reminded of our own mortality.
Ah. So now who's selfish. 
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gnomes2169
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posted June 07, 2011 09:31 PM |
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We humans don't like to be reminded of our own mortality.
Ah. So now who's selfish.
All of us. Every last human with emotions, at least.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Azagal
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posted June 07, 2011 10:09 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 22:18, 07 Jun 2011.
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Corribus this time I don't think you understood me very well since you're putting words in my mouth let me clarify a few things for you:
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As for motive, you seem to be distinguishing between someone who wants to kill themselves at the end of a terminal illness, and someone who is, say, just clinically depressed.
.....
On the other hand, you, like many others, find it easy to criticize a clinically depressed person for choosing suicide rather than taking medication or undergoing extensive psychotherapy. You would criticize this person for "being lazy" or "selfish", because this is a problem that could, technically, be "solved with or without professional help."
No. I distinguish between people who have a future to go back to and those that don't. Also where do you ever see me make light of clinical Depression? I would find it easy to critize that person? Excuse me?
Like I said for me it depends on whether a person has a future to go back to. As far as I understand people who suffer from clinical depression sometimes have to take very strong medication which limits them in their perception of life, everything is dull and distant and in general somewhat "toned down". I wouldn't blame anyone for not wanting to suffer through that if he or she found it to be unbearable after having experienced it.
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Why do we find comfort in impugning the one person but not the other? Well, for one thing our society doesn't really respect mental illness like it does physical illness.
That may be a trend Corribus but don't use me as an example when I haven't given you evidence to support that. If anything I find mental illnesses to be a lot worse since you can deal with a broken body to a certain extent while still being yourself, if you are mentally ill you may lose what makes you you, which is a lot more terrifying if you ask me...You may not die biologically speaking but whatever made Azagal the person he is may be lost and then we have someone sitting there in his body that isn't him anymore. Not really. Where do you get the idea from that I somehow respect mental illnesses less Corribus?
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It's hard to empathize with a physically healthy but mentally ill patient who wants to die. What's wrong with them? They're just lazy and selfish, suck it up. Right?
Again no. And I never said anything of the sort. I was talking about people who have problems that can be solved either through their own work or by getting help and those that have problems that can't be solved. Some mental illnesses can't be treated they can simply be dulled or surpressed which usually carries severe consequences for your health with it. I never said that that's something people should have to fight or struggle through and I most certainly didn't say they are a lesser person for not wanting to suffer when this sort of life is all they have to look forward to.
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I'm not trying to say that easy=cowardice not at all. But where suicide is concerned it is.
Why? What are they afraid of? To be a coward you have to be afraid of something. Laziness maybe I could see. But coward? It's like someone calling me a coward because I feel like watching television instead of mowing the lawn.
Now please keep in mind I'm talking about people who have a future and yet commit suicide...
They are afraid to live. To have responsability. To keep going, to face the future.
Also I already explained that I didn't say that I thought killing yourself was an easy choice but that out of chosing to live and chosing to die they chose to die. They wouldn't do that if it was the harder thing to do would they? Ergo it is the easier way. That doesn't neccesarily imply that it's the wrong thing to do as assisted suicide demonstrates or that it isn't a hard a choice to make. It just isn't the hardest of the two.
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(Although, I stress again that I've yet to see a convincing argument why someone, even a perfectly healthy someone, shouldn't be able to check out of life whenever they want to.)
This basically sums up your last paragraph. This is an entirely different issue since you now also include people who don't have any problems (meaning they have a future).
This is more about personal ideals if you ask me sice the other discussion has medically valid reasons to justify a decision.
I don't think healthy people should commit suicide, I can't forbid it but I think it's an complete a$$hole move to pull of if you're perfectly healthy.
Why? Because we are not alone on this planet if you commit suicide you are not the one who suffers the consequences your death causes. There are families, friends and responsabilities you just abandon. Suicide is just a form of letting people down. All the other things you mentioned the person will always be there to suffer the consequences of his actions, he can always be held accountable for what he did. When you commit suicide that all vanishes, you just leave people with your burdens without ever having to take responsability for it. That's why it's different.
Also Gnomes it's not about being "in" it's about explaining a thought sufficiently since one-liners more often than not carry very little information that either hasn't been said already or add very little to the discussion.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted June 07, 2011 10:22 PM |
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Funny how people seem to think the dead person isn't dealing with the consequences but the people around them are.
Case A
The person is a christian/muslim/jew/whatever, he's going to hell for what he did. How is that not dealing with the consequences?
Case B
The person is a hindi/buddhist/whatever, he's going to be born as a rodent or something, that's quite much dealing with the consequences.
Case C
The person is an atheist/agnostic/whatever, he's dead, HELLO, dealing with the consequences? He's bloody dead! What are some mother's tears to ETERNAL DEATH?
Case D
The person is a shinto/african/whatever, he's off with his old chaps living the good life. That seems like a good choice out. Consequences? He's off feasting and all his relatives are proud of him. Done deal.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted June 07, 2011 10:25 PM |
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This thread makes me think that death penalty should be enforced everywhere.
Only for one reason though,
stupidity.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted June 07, 2011 10:29 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 22:30, 07 Jun 2011.
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Well you're mostly talking about an afterlife noone knows whether it exists or what it's going to be like or how God is going to actually judge us (I doubt he loves the person that comitts suicide any less than the guy that died at age 110 and lived happily ever after, since whichever god you believe in is usually the architect of fate himself so he'd have to blame himself for the suicide).
So yeah I'd take this life while I have it. If something is waiting for me later good for me, if not I'll hopefully have made the most of my time now.
Also I was talking about the consequences the death causes not the consequences of commiting suicide. Big difference.
EDIT:
Quote:
Only for one reason though,
stupidity.
Uh what?Are you saying we're stupid?
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted June 07, 2011 10:31 PM |
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Consequences of death:
Person is dead/afterlife
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