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| Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Public Closed Beta Impressions |  This thread is pages long: 1 10 20 ... 26 27 28 29 30 ... 33 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted July 19, 2011 08:10 PM |
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Edited by Nirual at 20:17, 19 Jul 2011.
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Maybe they felt the need to nerf these to adjust the effect to the overall growth reductions they made in that patch?
Then again, almost halving them seems a little excessive.
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I was very disappointed with the H6 Necromancy.
I thought that their racial would be a lot about raising actual troops on the battlefield. So if you kill 20 Sisters, you could in combat raise some of them as Ghosts.
That would have made the faction unique.
Instead we got a glorified Heal spell that functions as a boring racial. :/
None of the racials stuck me as very interesting so far. Haven has the only one with a truly unique effect as far as I can tell.
Not that H5 didn't have some boring racials, but at least they mostly did unique things, not something you can replicate with a normal spell.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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mike80d
Famous Hero
Map Maker
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posted July 19, 2011 11:23 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
I was very disappointed with the H6 Necromancy.
I thought that their racial would be a lot about raising actual troops on the battlefield. So if you kill 20 Sisters, you could in combat raise some of them as Ghosts.
That would have made the faction unique.
Instead we got a glorified Heal spell that functions as a boring racial. :/
I agree. It's very lame in its current incarnation.
Something that would have been cool is if Ghosts/Spectres weren't a hireable unit (and their place was taken in the castle), but during combat you could temporarily raise up a dead opponents stack into ghosts. The hero could do this once per turn w/o losing his normal casting or attack turn.
The changes in the patch sound good. The best part is that there is a patch! lol.
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pacifist
Famous Hero
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posted July 19, 2011 11:51 PM |
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Edited by pacifist at 23:57, 19 Jul 2011.
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First time I see this. At first I thought the 1.2 patch was somehow implemented in some ways without install but I closed the program and no patch yet so this is a bug with vestals or guardian angel I have to test both. The fact is that I decided to fight 43 crushers with 35 vestals alone. Crushers advance, vestals attack one stack (out of 4) and pacify it, then moral (I have guardian angel ready) so I wait, attack with hero then guardian angel then attack a second stack which is then pacified too. Next round, the crushers don't have anything to do since guardian angel is still active, I won the fight, they didn't flee or anything  . With the special building that gives guardian angel at start of fight this can maybe lead to some abuse ...
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http://www.youtube.com/user/alkoriak#g/u
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 20, 2011 12:02 AM |
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Is that why you are called a pacifist? 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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pacifist
Famous Hero
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posted July 20, 2011 12:20 AM |
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Edited by pacifist at 00:34, 20 Jul 2011.
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continuing with that idea, I beat 12 kirins guarding the champion dwelling (well could have won the 12 but only killed 8 before I won fight). For the fort it was another weird thing : I lost 9 vestals before I could launch guardian angel, then I cast rush on vestals, and guardian angel, I won the fight with 0 xp but in this case I have the same fight again to do but this time 8 elementals each instead of 11. Something the developers have to look into . The hero is lv 5 so I lose 2 vestals, with one more level maybe no losses at all, anyway something to be adressed .
Seems the vestals are a little overpowered even without this guardian angel trick, but I will compare them to vampires but stronger since they pacify almost anything in a corner of the battlefield.
edit : well it seems more complicated than that because it works the other way too. The vestals lose their turn due to petrification from earth elementals but I won fight losing 7 of them because I couldn't heal them. Complete inactivity seem to be the factor here, because a fight with pit fiends with 3 cyclops didn't give that result once they were berserked.
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http://www.youtube.com/user/alkoriak#g/u
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admira
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 20, 2011 04:30 AM |
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reading some of the stuff. I must say I am very disappointed with the current Necromancy, I mean most of the time the basic principal of necromancy is to raise dead and add them to your rank. This is heresy and not to mention lame.
How I thought about current necromancy is:
- the bar will filled when living creatures (either allies or enemy) died in combat.
- Once the bar fully filled you can use it (maybe for balance issue you can only use it on core creature or limited to skeleton)
- The number of Skeleton will be reinforced
- After the combat the X% reinforcing Skeleton will join the army as permanent Skeleton
This way the balance is easily tweaked:
- you can do the fixed number raise skeleton or increase the number of raised skeleton depends on the Necromancy level
- you can fasten the Racial Necromancy bar filling with the increase of Necromancy level
- you can fix the X% permanent effect after combat to tweak for the balance
This way, I think not only the racial is more interesting and unique but also the balance can be tweaked in one way or another and MOST importantly: Living up with the Necromancy principal!!!
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 20, 2011 08:58 AM |
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Just let me make sure I understand this completely: Is Necromancy changed, so that if you raise some units, only a part of them remain after combat? And if that is so, what spells are there to permanently raise undead (Ghost ability, others?)?
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admira
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 20, 2011 09:15 AM |
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Quote:
Just let me make sure I understand this completely: Is Necromancy changed, so that if you raise some units, only a part of them remain after combat? And if that is so, what spells are there to permanently raise undead (Ghost ability, others?)?
Nope, this time the current build, Necromancy is lesser healing (with resurrection effect) that affecting only undead with 0 mana
The one you read above is my suggestion or at least it was what I thought about the current built necromancy
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 20, 2011 10:16 AM |
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Necromancy can't be used to increase your army size after each battle. It's simply IMPOSSIBLE to balance.
Unless they give Necropolis VERY snowty growth in the start, there's simply no way to compensate the power gain of increasing troops of Necropolis vs the other factions.
Sure, it was funny to run around with thousands of Skeletons, but unless you give other factions a way to "raise" thousands of units, it simply won't work. Even a few Elites or Champions raised can make a huge difference.
I agree that Necromancy is about raising troops and increasing your troops' size. Logical ? For sure ! Balanced ? No way!
The way I'd design Necromancy is like this :
1. The racial gauge fills up with damage taken and with any dead unit on the battlefield - ally or enemy, living or undead. Only Constructs will block Necromancy.
2. Necromancy can be used in 2 ways :
a) You can heal up X hitpoints worth of troops and reanimate your own undead troops
b) You can raise a damaged (as in a stack that lost troops) Living stack (ally or enemy) which will cause X% of the dead units in the stack to raise as an undead of the equivalent tier - also based on Necromancy's level.
The stack will appear next to stack it was raised from and they will disappear at the end of the fight.
3. When you use Necromancy to raise troops from enemy stack, it will prevent the resurrection of those units
Example : I attack a stack 25 Sisters and kill 7 of them. If I cast Necromancy on them, I will raise 3 Ghosts. Any further healing done to the Sisters will only be able to resurrect 4 (7-3) - It works the same way Implosion does.
4. If you used the Necromancy "Heal" on your own troops, you won't lose the "healed" troops at the end of the battle.
Necromancy 1 : You can heal any tier but you can only raise Cores
Necromancy 2 : You can heal any tier but you can only raise Cores and Elites
Necromancy 3 : You can heal any tier but you can raise Cores, Elites and Champions
Necromancy 4 : Same as Necromancy 3, but you raise/heal more undead.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 20, 2011 10:30 AM |
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For one, raising skelies with the current strength of cores.. Yeah bad idea. It's all your fault, too many of you seem to like strong cores 
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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mytheroes
Famous Hero
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posted July 20, 2011 10:38 AM |
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Necromancy can't be used to increase your army size after each battle. It's simply IMPOSSIBLE to balance.
Necromancy in H5 ToTE is pretty good in terms of balance.
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Unless they give Necropolis VERY snowty growth in the start, there's simply no way to compensate the power gain of increasing troops of Necropolis vs the other factions.
Actually, they need to reduce the power of the creatures imo.
Quote:
Sure, it was funny to run around with thousands of Skeletons, but unless you give other factions a way to "raise" thousands of units, it simply won't work. Even a few Elites or Champions raised can make a huge difference.
A limiter like in ToTE can solve this problem.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 20, 2011 11:01 AM |
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It's just not as much fun if you can't raise them by the hundreds. And given how strong skelies are now you'd be harvesting them by the lots
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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admira
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 20, 2011 01:57 PM |
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I don't know, for me all the racial seems a bit boring currently, I hope the Advance Class unique abilities and Ultimates provide something to overcome the boring racial skills.
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Raelag84
Famous Hero
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posted July 20, 2011 03:37 PM |
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How is the naga racial abilty? Has anyone found that abilty fun to use?
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 20, 2011 03:46 PM |
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How is the naga racial abilty? Has anyone found that abilty fun to use?
It's about as fun as Stronghold's Rage, but it's a strong ability once it reaches level 2.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted July 20, 2011 11:14 PM |
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so what did the Four Waves thing of the Kensei do in the end?
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Raelag84
Famous Hero
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posted July 21, 2011 01:47 AM |
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I don't know what the four waves abilty is ether. The descriptions on the main website are kind of cryptic. I am also not really sure what the Naga racial abilty is.
As a side note I read Sun Tzu's "The Art of War" three times and unless something was lost in translation there is nothing in there about one on one fights. The closest line I can think of is where Sun suggest making it hard to know where you are going to attack so then your opponent must spread themselves thin "allowing you to be many to your opponent's few".
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Brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted July 21, 2011 02:33 AM |
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This is finally starting to look like a beta. They even took a grip on the official forum so we don't get 50 different topics saying the same thing. Too bad I don't have much time to test the 1.2 patch. Perhaps I'll return stronger after the 25th.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 21, 2011 02:39 AM |
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So I finally tested the Pit Fiend early game strategy and managed to build the Pit fiend dwelling on the last day of the first week.
AND OH MY DELEB IT OWNS.
I was soloing Deadly stacks with a single Pit Fiend and a single cast of Regenration. Its so much fun too, so I hope that if they nerf it then they wont completly remove the strategy.
With the next patch buffing Pit Fiends and other Champions, you won't be able to deny that they are OP!
I played on normal with agressive AI.
My strategy was something like this:
1. First day, made an additional Hero with Succubi and transfered troops. Attacked Crystal Mine on day 1 with main hero. Then I made a third hero and grabbed the Lumber Mill (probably not nescessary).
My main hero got Regenration as the first skill and the secondary ones Logistics and the one where you get more resources.
2. Second skill on main hero was Logistics because I wanted to be 100% sure that I would be able to grab all Crystal before Week 2. I grabbed the Ore pit. I improve Earth magic on my main hero.
3. Cleared pretty much all neutrals in the starting area and got all crystals in the area. I get Rush on my main hero.
4. Day 7. Since I got Crystal Mine on Day 1 and had Logistics and secondary heroes to pick up all resources, I got the 20 Crystals needed for the Pit Fiend dwelling.
5. Day 1 Week 2. 2 Pit Fiends are recruitable. I recruit 1 since I only have 1 crystal. With the single Pit fiend, Regenration and Rush I start to clear all Deadly stacks = awesome and great fun.
My first priority is to take the Crystal Mine in the second area, which I easily do with the Pit Fiend. Then I transfer the second Pit Fiend to my main hero with the help of secondary heroes.
I tried out Life Drain but a single Regenration always seemed to be enough.
I also think it is very possible to add the Succubus building before Week 2, but this time I just built on the first day of Week 2.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 21, 2011 09:22 AM |
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Pit Fiends are far from overpowered, actually at the moment they are about fine. I'm still wondering if Blade of Hatred should give No Retaliation effect to the attack of the affected stack though.
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