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| Thread: Bored of the beta: a mini-review |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Crayfish
Known Hero
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posted July 09, 2011 11:23 AM |
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Edited by Crayfish at 11:50, 09 Jul 2011.
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When I'm a multi-billionaire I'm totally going to hire a team to make the HOMM that should have been made.
Hopefully without random level ups? 
But yeah, I really miss racial skills. Those were fun and unique. I really liked Gate master and lucky gating, for instance
Haha, hmm I can't decide. Maybe I'll flip a coin 
Well, £1.00 in the bank, £999,9999.00 to go. Donations welcome.
I wonder how much the development costs of HOMMVI are approximately?
Edit: After some research, probably around $30 million.
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 09, 2011 11:57 AM |
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And you'd have to buy the license 
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Crayfish
Known Hero
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posted July 09, 2011 12:17 PM |
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Edited by Crayfish at 12:18, 09 Jul 2011.
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And you'd have to buy the license
Oh snap. I had $30 million lying around but now it's just an unrealistic proposition
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 09, 2011 01:09 PM |
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I mean, who will not start out by picking Heal with any faction with access to Light Magic?
I have played a game with no heals other than my creatures' ones and it was quite fun to experience another aspect of the game tbh, but yeah ... without healing/regeneration, you won't be competitive in MP since you'll always be losing a few creatures left and right.
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DestinyatWork
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 09, 2011 01:16 PM |
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Has anyone heard of a balance and bug fix patch?
Can the insider or participants of the former beta give an estimate how long it takes them to patch up such glaring issues?
So that we can have a real test at least albeit limited by one map.
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted July 09, 2011 02:38 PM |
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Also like others said, playing any hero of any faction feels too much alike. Except some very minor twists, you play a knight the same way you play a barbarian, a heretic or even a death knight. There are no differences between the tree skills (why does a death knight have leadership ? shouldn't a heretic NOT have access to leadership since morale is a weak point of his army ? etc...).
This is what i predicted long time ago when I heard focus will be made on might and magic heroes for each and "customizable gameplay of each". I always prefered the META pick from H5 where we only had one type of hero per faction but in the end it turned into 8 distinct playstyles. But i was a minority and most of the board claimed this new system will work better. Now we do indeed have 2 types of heroes per faction, but from my point of view I only see 2 play styles. Might and Magic. Fancy and truthful to the franchise name, but utterly boring as it is currently. And i really don't see them pulling it off and changing it much anymore.
And so I don't sound just negative, the game itself still seems quite playable, however this is a nuisance.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 09, 2011 11:06 PM |
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Funny part is: we all forget how lame H3 skilset was, with few top dogs like leadership and couple crappy skills like eagle eye. We all forget how (assuming the randomness didn't get the player to pick between two craptastic skills) all heroes ended with leadership, logistics, wisdom and air/water magic. It didn't matter, cause the game was fun. This I think proves that skill system doesn't really matter (for the fun factor that is, not for balance). So... no big deal guys. Even if it ends up sucking in the end, you can still have great fun.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 09, 2011 11:10 PM |
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Believe me please, I saw more than one MP game won because of eagle eye skill. Except Learning, there was no useless skill.
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Era II mods and utilities
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 09, 2011 11:30 PM |
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@alci
what I really hated about the randomness, aside from the "haha you got no X so you lose" type of impact on play, is that there were certain awesome skills I wanted to try (for instance triple imbued ballista), but with 2% chance, I actually saw warmachines as elven hero maybe once or twice in my entire H5 career.
Why to create a cool unique perk and make it near-impossible to roll?
Randomness sucks so hard.
I'm not sure I agree. Without randomness, you would have picked that build every single time, because it was so imbalanced - particularly since TotE, with the High Druid boosting your spellpower into extremes.
One can argue then that skill should be removed, but with Sylvan generally not being to effy with Destructive (at least pre-TotE), it was a fun option to have, and those times when you then WERE offered War Machines (or found it in a hut), you had to decide whether you wanted to go for it or not - which ment having to give up on classic Sylvan skills like Logistics, Light Magic and Luck. It also depended on how early you got the choice - would you manage to reach final build in time, or would you get stuck with a lousy build midway?
While it might have been frustrating at times, I liked the ability to sometimes have chance play in your favor and offer some alternative build (like Sylvan x War Machines or Dungeon x Leadership) which could be great fun, even if it would be imbalanced if you always had that option. But I understand why you, from a competitive point of view, might dislike that.
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What will happen now?
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 09, 2011 11:53 PM |
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I think I tried that on a custom duel hero
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Davy
Known Hero
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posted July 10, 2011 11:29 AM |
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Also like others said, playing any hero of any faction feels too much alike. Except some very minor twists, you play a knight the same way you play a barbarian, a heretic or even a death knight. There are no differences between the tree skills (why does a death knight have leadership ? shouldn't a heretic NOT have access to leadership since morale is a weak point of his army ? etc...).
This is what i predicted long time ago when I heard focus will be made on might and magic heroes for each and "customizable gameplay of each". I always prefered the META pick from H5 where we only had one type of hero per faction but in the end it turned into 8 distinct playstyles. But i was a minority and most of the board claimed this new system will work better. Now we do indeed have 2 types of heroes per faction, but from my point of view I only see 2 play styles. Might and Magic. Fancy and truthful to the franchise name, but utterly boring as it is currently. And i really don't see them pulling it off and changing it much anymore.
And so I don't sound just negative, the game itself still seems quite playable, however this is a nuisance.
I don't think so.
Now we've got 4 upgraded heroes per faction and they all have unique abilities.
And just because there are now might and magic heroes in every faction doesn't mean,that every faction plays the same,nearly all creatures have unique abilities,that sets them apart from all other creatures.And every faction has also different kinds of magic,so not every faction will be able to learn every spell,making them even more unique...
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 10, 2011 11:31 AM |
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I'm not sure I agree. Without randomness, you would have picked that build every single time, because it was so imbalanced - particularly since TotE, with the High Druid boosting your spellpower into extremes.
Well that could've been balanced of course  High Druids spellpower boost weakened and stuff like that. I agree it would be crazy to allow players to pick an insane build on regular basis... but hey, that's what balancing is for 
Think of it, wouldn't it be equally fun if you had like 4-5 of those strategies (like imbue ballista, LLLL, and a couple others) equal and being able to choose between them or combine parts of them at will? I think that'd be great if balance was there
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted July 10, 2011 11:48 AM |
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I don't think so.
Now we've got 4 upgraded heroes per faction and they all have unique abilities.
And just because there are now might and magic heroes in every faction doesn't mean,that every faction plays the same,nearly all creatures have unique abilities,that sets them apart from all other creatures.And every faction has also different kinds of magic,so not every faction will be able to learn every spell,making them even more unique...
Yes, that's what it says on paper. Unfortunately it seems way blander and more monotonous than it looks on the first sight.
I do hope final version will prove that there will indeed be a variety of builds, but allow me to be extremely skeptical on this part.
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Crayfish
Known Hero
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posted July 10, 2011 11:53 AM |
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Edited by Crayfish at 12:13, 10 Jul 2011.
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I do hope final version will prove that there will indeed be a variety of builds, but allow me to be extremely skeptical on this part.
Permission granted! I might put together some proper skill trees if I get a time windfall at any point.
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I don't think so.
Now we've got 4 upgraded heroes per faction and they all have unique abilities.
And just because there are now might and magic heroes in every faction doesn't mean,that every faction plays the same,nearly all creatures have unique abilities,that sets them apart from all other creatures.And every faction has also different kinds of magic,so not every faction will be able to learn every spell,making them even more unique...
I take it you haven't played either of the betas? Creatures are fine, but in terms of skills there really isn't much variety at present. Might and magic heroes have access to almost the same skill trees, just the third tier of might is inaccessible to magic and vice versa. Might and magic heroes are therefore identical up to at least level 15 (except for stats differences).
Every faction has exactly the same skill trees. There are no unique faction skills. The only difference is that each faction has access to five of the seven schools of magic. I find I only ever take a few key spells in an entire game even with a magic hero, so this limitation is barely noticeable.
There is no point in taking abilities in more than one magic school when those ability points could be spent on logistics, pathfinding and so on. After all you can only cast one spell per turn and spells are most effective when you have the magic school abilities (e.g. air magic I, II and III).
Only exception being Prime Magic which has some general magic-boosting abilities that grant mana and spell power. Some factions (Stronghold I think?) don't have access to Prime Magic, making their magic heroes a bit useless.
Yes, the faction skill does change with blood/tears, level and hero class and that's a welcome innovation but it doesn't make up for the identical skill trees at all.
Also as a general complaint, except for a few stand out spells such as healing, magic is useless in the early game then insanely overpowered in the later game (mass life drain). Heroic strike does more damage than most direct damage spells. That's just a balance issue though, should be better by release.
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 10, 2011 12:02 PM |
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I don't think so.
Now we've got 4 upgraded heroes per faction and they all have unique abilities.
And just because there are now might and magic heroes in every faction doesn't mean,that every faction plays the same,nearly all creatures have unique abilities,that sets them apart from all other creatures.And every faction has also different kinds of magic,so not every faction will be able to learn every spell,making them even more unique...
Did you read some biased Ubisoft advertisement or have you actually played the game ? You're so terribly wrong on every aspect.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 10, 2011 12:23 PM |
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Believe me please, I saw more than one MP game won because of eagle eye skill. Except Learning, there was no useless skill.
Eagle eye may with you a couple of games, luck will win you 20, I'll stick to the more useful skills 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 10, 2011 01:08 PM |
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I agree, no one would go for eagle eye on main. Still, the use of scouts coming with the skill provided a rebalance early game, if the magic guild was really unlucky on one side (no slow, magic arrow, haste etc). My point is that (H3) you can probably find a decent use to every skill, except learning, which was betrayed by pure maths analyze.
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Era II mods and utilities
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 10, 2011 01:48 PM |
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I'm not sure I agree. Without randomness, you would have picked that build every single time, because it was so imbalanced - particularly since TotE, with the High Druid boosting your spellpower into extremes.
Well that could've been balanced of course High Druids spellpower boost weakened and stuff like that. I agree it would be crazy to allow players to pick an insane build on regular basis... but hey, that's what balancing is for
Think of it, wouldn't it be equally fun if you had like 4-5 of those strategies (like imbue ballista, LLLL, and a couple others) equal and being able to choose between them or combine parts of them at will? I think that'd be great if balance was there
There is no such thing as perfect balance, but of course I agree with you on paper. I still found that the appearance-chance was a fine way to ensure certain builds being harder to achieve - plus, it made the difference between different hero types much more destinctive.
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What will happen now?
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einomida
Known Hero
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posted July 10, 2011 02:15 PM |
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How about a skill system like this:
There are both skills and perks, just like in H5.
Heroes can spend skill points to choose a major skill they want. For each spent skill point, you are granted 2 perk points, which you can use to select perks from that skilltree.
For example. I spend my skill point on Defense skill, which gives 10% defense. Then I get 2 perk points and I'll decide to spend them on +1 Might defense perk and +1 Magic Defense Perk. There also might be better ranks for perks themselves so I can spend two perk points and get +2 Might Defense for example.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 10, 2011 02:29 PM |
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I agree, no one would go for eagle eye on main. Still, the use of scouts coming with the skill provided a rebalance early game, if the magic guild was really unlucky on one side (no slow, magic arrow, haste etc). My point is that (H3) you can probably find a decent use to every skill, except learning, which was betrayed by pure maths analyze.
You could probably kill diablo with broken act1 javelin in Diablo II, but that doesn't mean the broken javelins aren't useless in act IV.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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