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| Thread: the buildings |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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pyromancer
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 20, 2002 12:41 PM |
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the buildings
Academy
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magic - order
heroes - lord, mage
terrain - snow
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Village Hall
gives 500gp
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Town Hall
gives 750gp
needs - Village Hall
costs - 2500gp, 10wood, 10ore
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City Hall
gives 1000gp
needs - Town Hall
costs - 2500gp, 10wood, 10ore, 5crystals, 5gems
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Fort
gives - town walls 1st level
needs - Village Hall
costs - 5000gp, 20wood, 20ore
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Citadel
gives - town walls 2nd level
needs - Fort
costs - 7500gp, 10wood, 10ore
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gives - town walls 3d level, prison
needs- Citadel
costst - 7500gp, 10wood, 10ore
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Tavern
recruit heroes
needs - Village Hall
costs - 500gp, 2wood
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Caravan
needs - Fort
costs - 4500gp, 10wood
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Shipyard
needs - Fort
costs - 2000gp, 20wood
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Prison
needs - nothing
costs - nothing
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Alchemist's Shop
needs - Village Hall
available items - Teleskope, Mage Staff, Chain mail
available potions - Potions of Restoration, Precognition, Cold, Fire Resistance è Binding Liquid
costs - 3000gp, 4wood, 4ore, 1mercury, 1sulfur, 1crystal, 1gem
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Dwarven Mines
needs - Fort
costs - 1500gp
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Halfling Burrow
needs - Fort
costs - 1500gp
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Golem Factory
needs - Dwarven Mines, Halfling Burrow, Institute of Magic
costs - 3000gp, 6ore
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Mage Tower
needs - Dwarven Mines, Halfling Burrow, Institute of Magic
costs - 2750gp,1sulfur, 1mercury, 1crystal, 1gem
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Golden Pavilion
needs - 2nd level dwelling, Treasury
costs - 6250gp, 8wood, 8ore, 4crystals
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Altar of Wishes
needs - 2nd level dwelling, Treasury
costs - 6250gp, 12gems
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Dragon Factory
needs - 3d level dwelling, Alcemist's shop, University
costs - 14000gp, 12wood, 30ore, 4crystals, 4sulfur, 4mercury, 4gems
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Cloud Castle
needs - 3d level dwelling, Castle
costs - 14000gp, 16wood, 16ore, 20gems
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Institute of magic - Order magic
level 1 - 3 spells level 1, the hero restores 20% SP/if he spend the day
costs - 2000gp, 5wood, 5ore, 4gems
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level 2 - 3 spells level 2, the hero restores 25% SP
costs - 2000gp, 5wood, 5ore, 1sulfur, 1crystal, 1mercury, 5gems
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level 3 - 2 spells level 3, the hero restores 35% SP
costs - 2000gp, 5wood, 5ore, 2sulfur, 2crystal, 2mercury, 6gems
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level 4 - 2 spells level 4, the hero restores 50% SP
costs - 2000gp, 5wood, 5ore, 3sulfur, 3crystal, 3mercury, 7gems
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level 5 - 1 spell level 5, the hero restores 100% SP
costs - 2000gp, 5wood, 5ore, 4sulfur, 4crystal, 4mercury, 8gems
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Clerical Library
gives Life Spells
depending on the level of the Institute of Magic it gives 2 spells level 1-3, and 1 spell level 4-5
costs - 2000gp, 12wood, 12ore, 3sulfur, 3crystal, 3mercury, 3gems
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Necromantic Library
gives Death Spells
spells - as the clerical library
costs - 2000gp, 10wood, 10ore, 8sulfur, 2crystal, 2mercury, 2gems
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Univeristy
the hero can learn for 2000gp
Nobility, Scouting, Life Magic, Death Magic
costs - 5750gp, 5wood, 5ore, 2sulfur, 2gems
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Treasury
+10% gold every week
costs - 6000gp, 5wood, 10ore
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Grail
Great Library
gives - 3000gp, all Order Spells +50% effeciency, all institutes of magic have spells as if they are 5level. the hero restores 25% more Spell points than his maximum.
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DVZ
Known Hero
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posted February 20, 2002 01:10 PM |
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Is there any resource silo at all?
Does the Mining bonus work without having the mine first?
The stunning dependence on gem is just outrageous.
Now I know why Dragon Golem looks a lot crappier than Titans. With 20 Gems, it will take forever to build Titan's dwelling. Gosh, even I may not be able to build the City Hall for a while.
Oh, well, we'll see.
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DarkRain_CHN
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 20, 2002 01:37 PM |
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Quote:
Academy
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Golden Pavilion
needs - 2nd level dwelling, Treasury
costs - 6250gp, 8wood, 8ore, 4crystals
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Altar of Wishes
needs - 2nd level dwelling, Treasury
costs - 6250gp, 12gems
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Perhaps a misktake, look at [url=http://gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2002/pcnews/011702/heroes4/heroes4_screen017.jpg]this screenshot[/url].
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted February 20, 2002 04:32 PM |
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Quote:
Is there any resource silo at all?
Does the Mining bonus work without having the mine first?
The stunning dependence on gem is just outrageous.
Now I know why Dragon Golem looks a lot crappier than Titans. With 20 Gems, it will take forever to build Titan's dwelling. Gosh, even I may not be able to build the City Hall for a while.
Oh, well, we'll see.
Resource Silo = Heroes with Mining... GM Mining at level 20 gives 3 random precious resources/day (15 in 5 days) plus a minor amount of wood and ore.
You probably also need Heroes for monetary aid. Some of the above costs are very high with an income of just 1000 Gold/day (City Hall).
The total developement cost has gone down, because the upgraded creature dwellings are gone, and there are substantically less builds now than before.
I counted 27 total build for Academy (excluding the Village Hall and including Grail)). And of these 3 are mutally exclusive so you'll never build more than 24.
The corresponding number for Tower was 34, even if you exclude the Upgraded Dwellings you arrive at 27 which is a higher number than in Heroes 3. Overall, the diversity of the towns have seems to have been decreased.
My question is more like... where is the Marketplace, or can you no longer trade resources?? Or is that now a purely external dwelling.
Note that a Caravan requires the Fort so if it also works as a Marketplace, then it has a very steep cost to build, especially if you don't have a Fort built. Convenience / laziness may get you to buy a building but at that pricing the dwelling had better have some real benefit.
Another possiblilty is that the Alchemist's shop also works as a Marketplace, but description says nothing about it.
Why build Citadel and Castle? (Ok. Castle includes the Prison but if there is no benefit (other than bigger walls), is it really worth that much? Walls have been fairly useless in H2 and H3, and now the turrets are gone too making it yet more useless... And no bonus to production listed either... so what does the structure do to motivate the cost?)
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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StormWarning
Promising
Famous Hero
Archmage of Thunder
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posted February 20, 2002 10:09 PM |
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Quote:
Why build Citadel and Castle? (Ok. Castle includes the Prison but if there is no benefit (other than bigger walls), is it really worth that much? Walls have been fairly useless in H2 and H3, and now the turrets are gone too making it yet more useless...
The walls offer a defensive bonus (remember that creatures can do melee attacks across walls now). Creatures behind the wall, depending on the level of the fort, get defensive (and possibly offensive, I can't remember) bonuses. If creature production is not affected by the fort level anymore, then this will be a low priority upgrade (wait until you see an enemy, since until then it provides no value and you can build up an effective army without it).
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The calm before the storm is about to end.
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DVZ
Known Hero
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posted February 20, 2002 11:23 PM |
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Oh I didn't know that Fort level won't affect creature production rate. Well still +5 Crystal and Gem to build City Hall is too much, especially for gem/crystal hungry towns like the Academy.
Take a look at the Asylum and you will rejoice how relatively easy to build the BD's dwelling compared to Titans.
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pyromancer
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 21, 2002 06:05 PM |
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[quote
Perhaps a misktake, look at this screenshot.
yes,it seems right to me, becase genies have order and life spells, but i have translated it correct. maybe the library is too expencive?
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Asylum
i will translate only the special buildings (all other can be seen on http://heroes.ag.ru/castles/asylum/
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Rogue's Guild
requeres - Village Hall
offers - Greatsword, Crossbow, Vial of Acid, Demon Fire, Potions of Restoration, Speed è Mana.
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Mana Vortex
requeres - Sorcerer's Guild
doubles the Spell points once in a week
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Battle Academy
+1000 exp (once for a hero)
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Thieves Gauntlet
+(1-2)damage (once for a hero)
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Grail
Eye of Chaos
+3000gp
all Chaos Spells +50% effeciency
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insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
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posted February 22, 2002 09:44 AM |
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Quote:
Village Hall
gives 500gp
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Town Hall
gives 750gp
needs - Village Hall
costs - 2500gp, 10wood, 10ore
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City Hall
gives 1000gp
needs - Town Hall
costs - 2500gp, 10wood, 10ore, 5crystals, 5gems
oh god..let this be false
..or else we'll shove our breeding pits and nobilities up our ass
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pyromancer
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 22, 2002 01:57 PM |
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Necropolis
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Armory
requeres - Vilage Hall
offers - Long Sword,Shield,Chain mail. Potions of Restoration, Clouds of Despair, Vials of Poison, Choking Gas è Blinding Smoke
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Undead Trahsformer
requeres - Cemetry
turns monster 1-2 level into skeletons, and 3-4 level into ghosts
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Necromancy Apfilier
+10% necromancy
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Grail
Infernal Effigy
+3000gp, all Death spells +50% effeciency, +10% necromancy and the maximum of the slain units that are animated into undead is 50%.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted February 22, 2002 05:13 PM |
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Has Economy been wrecked???
Some thoughts on these numbers...
Village Hall
gives 500gp
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Town Hall
gives 750gp
needs - Village Hall
costs - 2500gp, 10wood, 10ore
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City Hall
gives 1000gp
needs - Town Hall
costs - 2500gp, 10wood, 10ore, 5crystals, 5gems
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It seems unfair to give City Hall an unbalanced precious resource requirement. The same amount of all precious resource would be more reasonable.
There should also be additional ways to increase income... The City Hall doesn't even provide enough money to recruit all the level 4 creatures the town can produce!!! Do they want to leave players in frustration???
The consequence of this is probably that you need 3-4 towns to buy the creature production for one town. The income is way too little or is the intention to litter the map with Gold Mines/Undeveloped Towns?
In H3, building a Town Hall pays off in 5 days. (Increased income 500, cost 2500), in H4 it takes 20 days (increased income 250, cost 5000 (if 2 wood=2 ore = 1 precious resource = 250 gold)).
In H3 building a City Hall pays off in 5 days (Increased income 1000, cost 5000), in H4 it takes 30 days (increased income 250, cost 7500).
(If you pay for both upgrades after each other, the break-even point is 25 days later, in H3 it was 5 days.)
This is just plain ridiculous... Will the average game last long enough for you to turn a profit?
The only way this would make sense is if Goverener's Estates added a percentage increase to the town income where the hero is governer.
My idea: If the above is all you can get from a Town, then change back to the H3 incomes and prices. In any case the invested money must be returned within 10 days, or nobody will want to upgrade.
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Fort
gives - town walls 1st level
needs - Village Hall
costs - 5000gp, 20wood, 20ore
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Citadel
gives - town walls 2nd level
needs - Fort
costs - 7500gp, 10wood, 10ore
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Castle
gives - town walls 3d level, prison
needs- Citadel
costst - 7500gp, 10wood, 10ore
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My experience in H3 is that I built Fort only because I have to, to be able to get dwelling, Citadel only for the increased production (or if I expect to be attacked next day) and Castle for the same reason as Citadel. With production bonuses seemingly reduced, these prices are ... hrmmm... no words appropriate for this forum occurs to me. Frankly, I couldn't care less about the protection by the walls, since I want to take out the enemy before reaching the walls.
Town income has gone down and building costs have gone up while the benefits have been largely removed.
Walls can be bypassed in different ways: the Ballista will circumvent it, flying will circumvent it, teleportation will circumvent it. I would likely be much better off purchasing creatures for the requested costs.
My idea: either cut the prices to one third or add some real benefits; not only the improved town defences, which can be circumvented in many different ways. Remember if you lose a town: the walls will be used against you.
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Tavern
recruit heroes
needs - Village Hall
costs - 500gp, 2wood
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Too little information on this one. The cost looks reasonable.
In fact, with all the other buildings being rated excessively expensive the tavern is probably a bargain!
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Caravan
needs - Fort
costs - 4500gp, 10wood
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4500 gp + 10 wood is way too much to be able to be "lazy". I'd rather move the creatures manually and have more of them. The only time I can see a need is if I want to transport Ballista or Waspworts who are very slow on the adventure map. Putting them in a caravan will then likely be worthwhile.
The requirement of a Fort is a very steep requirement, unless you're lucky to have it prebuilt.
Additional benefits are probably needed for this one.
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Shipyard
needs - Fort
costs - 2000gp, 20wood
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Perhaps reasonable, but overall I find this structure useless. It just takes costs to much wood to build a shipyard, a boat and then the main things you find the ocean is wood to replace the 30 wood you already have used for the builds. But if you had 30 wood, then would that not be enough for the time being?
My idea: This structure would make more sense if it costed Ore to build a Shipyard (but still wood to build a boat), as you would then use ore resources to get more wood.
OVERALL:
Steps seems to have been taken to make the player poor and wreck player economy. Almost every build takes a long time to pay off (if it ever does) due to high building costs and low return.
This works in a very distinctive way. Towns will be left undeveloped, perhaps with only level 1 and 2 dwellings built, since noone can pay the requested costs. (That's probably what you would be able to recruit anyway, without additional income.) This will slow game-play and make games longer (in number of days).
With the stated prices the "money" build option is gone unless other things compensates. Having less money available for the next three weeks will seriously set back your developement during these three weeks. So the "build for economy" option has been replaced with "throw away your money" option.
In conclusion, I certainly hope there's something missing in this information. The above descriptions hints that economy in H4 will be a very grim affair.
To remedy this, either the town must produce more money or Heroes (Governers) must somehow increase the Income from towns through Nobility/Estates.
If the above numbers give us the final income/cost for a town I fear that town development will be stunted even at the best of times. Games may last for months and even then be concluded by level 1 and level 2 creatures since players cannot afford more than that anyway.
For a town to produce enough money to build a level 4 dwelling (plus all the prerequisites), it will likely take closer to 2 months (or even more), and during this time you wouldn't be able to recruit any creatures from it unless you had some other income.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
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posted February 22, 2002 05:18 PM |
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Economy
I am shocked...and MAd..we've been waiting for months - over release postponements...
..but,oh well it's just another game for them i guess-"play it and throw it" thinking
If these buildings info stay in final version,One maybe Two GoldMines will be a must near town,,,like wood and ore is a must now
Quote:
Undead Trahsformer
requeres - Cemetry
turns monster 1-2 level into skeletons, and 3-4 level into ghosts
Woooow...!
and you wondered what to do with those imps and skeles
IF transformation rate is 1/1 and not healthbased...necrotown gets boosted to No1?
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pyromancer
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 22, 2002 05:41 PM |
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Haven
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Order of Paladins
requeres - Vilage Hall
offers - Great Sword, Plate mail. Holy Water, Potions of Restoration, Fire Resistance, Healing è Mirth
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Semminary
for 2000gold the hero can learn
Tactics, Combat, Life Magic, Order Magic è Nature Magic
requeres - Abbey
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Abbey
requeres - Fort
gives +2 morale for the next battle
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Stable
+5 movement for the week
req. - Village Hall
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Grail
Holy Avatar
+3000gp, all Life spells +50% effeciency
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Oldtimer
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Please leave a message after..
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posted February 22, 2002 06:55 PM |
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In h3, it is very, very easy to build up your town in one week. Heck the TOH people keep talking about how to get your level 7 creature by end of week one or early week two. And you know what?
It takes a lot of the town building strategies out of the game. Most people know exactly how the first 2 weeks of building is going to turn out for every game that they play. After that the town is built and you don't make a building decision until you conquer another town.
So in h4 towns look harder to build. You might actually have to make a strategic choice that will effect your gameplay when you decide to build up your town. Not everything is going to be available in the first week. SO WHAT.
Stop panicing and wait for the game to come out.
Stop prejudging all the decisions and see if they acually blend to make a better more balance and dare I say more interesting gameplay experience.
P.S. Did anyone else notice that the peasants special ability is taxpayer? Maybe the trick is to get a lot of peasants who pay you gold everyday.
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<PLEASE DO NOT WAKE THE OLD MAN!>
"Zzzz...Zzzz...Zzzz..."
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted February 22, 2002 07:07 PM |
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Who's panicking???
In TOH you can build up towns in one week. However, just try impossible setting and you'll find that you have to make some strategic decisions also with H3. You can be happy if you get the level 7 by week 4 or week 5 for many of the towns.
However, what seems inappropriate is that Town Structures seems to be there to relieve players of money or to serve as a prereuqisite for another buildings, and not for giving any real benefit.
About the town strategy, almost EVERY building in the town has to built in order to get the level 4.
The town building won't be much different in Heroes 4 provided you start with 20000+ Gold and a slew of resources and a rich map to get some more resources and money.
The way to solve the TOH problem is to start with less money and less resources on the Map. Not to stunt player economy.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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StormWarning
Promising
Famous Hero
Archmage of Thunder
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posted February 22, 2002 10:15 PM |
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Ugh.
1000 gold/day from the town? That's not enough to buy a Black Dragon a week for Asylum! I can understand trimming it a bit from the 4000, but 1000?! Since mines cost money to build now (according to an earlier screenshot, 15k to build a Gold Mine), this is going to really slow down the game in terms of building. Somewhat slower, I would like (maybe a good start on Normal would get you your level 4 in week 3 or 4), but this is ridiculous. If this isn't changed, Lords will be the most beneficial starting heroes of all - not for Nobility (you won't have the cash to buy the extra creatures anyway), but for Estates - a level 10 Lord w/ GM Estates gets as much cash a day as your town, and by level 30 you're making 2000 a day with your hero.
____________
The calm before the storm is about to end.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted February 23, 2002 12:59 AM |
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You think Estates is the more useful?
Then consider this: Doubling creature production means you won't have to build all the buildings and their prerequisites in a second town. Building up a town is extremely expensive with this new economy, especially if you want to build up all the way.
In fact with Nobility you will probably get by very well with just level 1 and level 2 monsters, and perhaps the level 3 if you can afford them.
Right now, level 4 is something you can think about after having taken an Utopia (or similar momentous event.)
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Wiseman
Known Hero
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posted February 23, 2002 07:18 PM |
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What if you get lots of gold by killing neutral creatures?Or there are lot of gold piles on the maps?
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Preserver
Promising
Famous Hero
Elemental Druid
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posted February 23, 2002 09:05 PM |
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Good News!
Fort, Citadel and Castle do determinate # of units created each week. About the tavern, the only thing I heard besides the fact that it allows you to recruit heroes, is that it also provides you with rumors. The morale bonus is gone though..
If anyone are interested in the Stronghold or Preserve buildings, the Celestial Heavens town pages are updated. I did not include building costs, but they will soon be available on various other sites.
____________
- The only alert the invaders had was the rustling of leaves on a day without wind -
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted February 24, 2002 05:06 AM |
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Edited By: Djive on 24 Feb 2002
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Quote:
Fort, Citadel and Castle do determinate # of units created each week. About the tavern, the only thing I heard besides the fact that it allows you to recruit heroes, is that it also provides you with rumors. The morale bonus is gone though..
So what is the "bonus"?
When we say 1 Black dragon, 2 Angels, 4 Champions, is the bonus included or is the bonus on top of those numbers?
____________
"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Preserver
Promising
Famous Hero
Elemental Druid
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posted February 24, 2002 12:22 PM |
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I don't know.. What do you think?
____________
- The only alert the invaders had was the rustling of leaves on a day without wind -
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