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| Thread: Why do wolves get such a bad rap in H6? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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Raelag84
Famous Hero
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posted October 11, 2011 02:44 PM |
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Why do wolves get such a bad rap in H6?
By now word must have got around that wolves are an important part of their ecosystem and they almost never attack humans etc etc. So what is the deal with the "wolf Duchy" and the very evil looking wolves you have to kill in the demo.
Just to clarify I don't mean to bust anyone's chops, but I am curious about this, because where I live depicting wolves as evil has become politically incorrect (not that there are anymore wolves living here).
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted October 11, 2011 03:30 PM |
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It's not just Heroes 6.
Wolves have always been stereotyped as evil creatures in popular media.
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SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
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posted October 11, 2011 03:39 PM |
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BAD WOLF
 anyway I thought the thread was about trashing the wolves...like why the heck are they in H6, because they are pretty boring & their special in H5 was annoyingly too much if one was unlucky...wolves seem to be extremely critical to the game designer's ecosystem
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted October 11, 2011 04:45 PM |
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Wolves aren't evil, they're just animals but they will attack weaker prey even if it's humans.
They won't attack a strong, healthy human. But a hungry, weakened or wounded one would surely be targeted.
The problem is that to a dire wolf, even a small band of Haven troops can seem like the weaker prey.
Wolves in video games are traditional low level "monsters". In the Heroes they have been one of the creatures that never missed a game. Part of Stronghold in Heroes 1 and 2. Part of Stronghold again in Heroes 3 but they were ridden by goblins (now that's bad rap!). Part of Nature in Heroes 4. Neutrals in Heroes 5 and now 6.
All neutrals that are not of your faction, will most likely be aggressive. I don't see why the wolves should be any different.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted October 11, 2011 06:59 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 19:01, 11 Oct 2011.
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The wolves are one of medieval Europe's terrors and most likely this is the origin of their "evil image". Otherwise - as smart, social and organized predators I guess they are considered more human-like than other animals - hence the addition of "attributes" like "evil".
I myself like them quite a lot. 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 11, 2011 07:07 PM |
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There is nothing special about wolves and the Wolf duchy, they have simply learned to tame them. Not exactly domesticate as they are still wild animals and may not fully follow the command of their masters but you get the idea. The wolves are kind of their emblem.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted October 11, 2011 07:47 PM |
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Yeah, but duke Gerhard is An Obvious Bad Guy, hence his duchy is evil. Which makes the wolves evil too. Same story with the griffins - duke Slava is good and noble and the griffins are therefore good and noble. It's obvious, guys! 
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Raelag84
Famous Hero
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posted October 11, 2011 08:15 PM |
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Edited by Raelag84 at 20:21, 11 Oct 2011.
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More than anything else I am struck by the fact that the fear wolves still seems to be prevalent in Europe and perhaps with good reason.
Wolf attacks are rare where ever you go, but they are a little more frequent in Europe than in North America.
http://www.wolf.org/wolves/pdf/wolfattack_nina.pdf
Here in the states there are still people (mostly out west) who consider wolves to be pest because they eat elk that people like to hunt. Where I live however we're not afraid of wolves because people killed them all off. I for one feel a sense of loss.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 11, 2011 08:37 PM |
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I never understand the Wolf, Tiger or Boar fetish some people seem to have. I just don't get why people want ordinary mammals as COOL CREATURES in a Heroes game.
I would much rather have a Werewolf, Rakshasa and a Mechanical Monster Boar than any of those creatures.
Wolf as a creature = boring and pointless. Why aren't stags creatures then? Stag Duchy? or are the Haven male heroes supposed to be those stags???
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted October 11, 2011 09:19 PM |
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A mechanical monster boar? What's that gonna be like? A transformer or something?
The only thing I dislike about H6 wolves is that the dire wolves are the same size as the winter wolves but they occupy four squares. If they are to do that, they should be larger.
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted October 11, 2011 09:35 PM |
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Wolves are harmless? Yeah, maybe modern ones that live in remote reservations. There's a reason they went extinct in most places where it isn't cold for 8 months during the year. Humans and wolves both like the same food. If humans hunt up all that food, that leaves the wolves with a more limited diet plan. They're not aggressive creatures like a leopard can sometimes be, but any meat-eating predator and humans are bound to come into some conflict.
Besides, H6 is a medieval-ish fantasy game. I don't want it being watered down with modern wisdom. Wolves were depicted as evil for a lot of history, which is the only thing that matters. It's a fictional culture.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted October 11, 2011 09:43 PM |
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Agreed with B-boy.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted October 11, 2011 09:49 PM |
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KingImp
Famous Hero
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posted October 11, 2011 09:50 PM |
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Quote:
I never understand the Wolf, Tiger or Boar fetish some people seem to have. I just don't get why people want ordinary mammals as COOL CREATURES in a Heroes game.
I would much rather have a Werewolf, Rakshasa and a Mechanical Monster Boar than any of those creatures.
Wolf as a creature = boring and pointless. Why aren't stags creatures then? Stag Duchy? or are the Haven male heroes supposed to be those stags???
Exactly my feeling as well.
To me a plain wolf is just that, plain and frankly boring. From what I've seen of these things in the beta there is nothing special about them. I'd much rather have a fictional creature like a Werewolf, Rakshasa, or (sorry but I can't go with that Mechanical Monster Boar  ) an Efreet.
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Aosaw
Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
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posted October 11, 2011 09:59 PM |
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Edited by Aosaw at 22:01, 11 Oct 2011.
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I don't know. Personally, if I saw werewolves in the line-up, I'd be annoyed, in kind of the same way that every time someone mentions the Twilight movies I get annoyed.
Werewolves are a trope, and not even a particularly interesting one if you ask me. Maybe it's just because I've seen a few too many bad werewolf movies (Teen Wolf notwithstanding  ) to take them at all seriously in a fantasy setting.
For me, the problem with wolves as neutral creatures is they're like the boring step-cousin of Hellhounds, as far as innovation is concerned. They're no different, at least conceptually, from the Water and Light Elementals. Someone said, "Hey, this creature is like that creature - let's make them the same!" Wolves have a different creature model (from the hellhound, not from themselves, which as kodial said is super-weird and smacks of developer laziness), but the principle is the same.
What was great about wolves in the first Heroes game was that they attacked twice. It made them interesting and ferocious (and it also created an interesting scenario when wolves fought griffins, which I liked a lot). Wolves in this game are just creatures with hit points and an attack score.
I think, instead of "werewolves", I would rather see Winter Wolves (kind of like the Dire Wolves we already have, but with a more obviously magical nature). Maybe Spirit Wolves, if there have to be two kinds.
Let me be clear: I don't care about wolves being a neutral creature. I care about them being vanilla-flavored. The same thing goes for the water and light elementals. They're vanilla-flavored, when they should be - at the very least - mint chocolate chip.
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted October 11, 2011 10:03 PM |
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I agree. Mint chocolate chip elementals would be awesome.
edit: omg I'm posting in the h6 forum. This is so exciting.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted October 11, 2011 10:07 PM |
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Werewolf would be a cool unit in a chaotic faction, a la H4 Asylum.
And one boring neutral creature doesn't bother me as much as twenty badly designed faction creatures do
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted October 11, 2011 10:19 PM |
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Quote:
For me, the problem with wolves as neutral creatures is they're like the boring step-cousin of Hellhounds, as far as innovation is concerned.
Yeah, except that the Hell Hounds, which are 50% larger than the regular wolves, are weaker than them. And the Dire Wolves can eat 2-3 Cerberi each. So much for the ferocious hell dogs, you're better off taming wolves (apparently duke Wolf realized that even before Ubisoft, the irony...).
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Aosaw
Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
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posted October 12, 2011 02:33 AM |
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I think that's part of a move to make neutral units stronger overall. That's not to say I agree with it, but that might be why.
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Breefolk
Tavern Dweller
Butt-kickeress
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posted October 12, 2011 06:06 AM |
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I think the thinking behind it is that it makes sense that heroes and their troops would have to deal with the dangers of the wild as well, including predators, and in order to keep with the feeling of a pseudo-medievel setting, they wanted something you would find in Europe, and thus a wolf, as opposed to something that would seem more out of place, like a tiger or a coconut.
As to the Griffon vs. Wolf themes, I think that the developers simply needed to have a reason to have conflict WITHIN the Empire as well as without for drama's sake, and thus the need for an antagonist duchy. In this case, the Wolf Duchy just happens to be the one they picked, and is in no way indicative of wolves being "evil" or anything. It could just as easily have been the Stag Duchy or the Unicorn Duchy, but since wolves were already planned as neutrals, it helped to cement the character of the Wolf Duchy.
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