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| Thread: Skill Impact |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted November 23, 2011 11:01 AM |
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I assume talking about skills needing more punch, that it is for early on in the game...my opinion:
SKILLS NEEDING MORE PUNCH:
Assailant
Reinforcements (+1 or +2 creatures early doesn't really help)
Toughness
Archery
SKILLS THAT ARE CURRENTLY GOOD:
Ambush (+5 initiative can affect lineup)
Stand your ground
Rush (My favorite skill, always pick this whether might or magic -> get a tank creature up early forcing all the enemy attacks to it, then heal it)
Pressed attack
Counterstrike
This is for might skills only, as magic skills are okay to me (tears - healing, blood - destructive)
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 23, 2011 12:10 PM |
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Quote:
I assume talking about skills needing more punch, that it is for early on in the game...my opinion:
SKILLS NEEDING MORE PUNCH:
Assailant
Reinforcements (+1 or +2 creatures early doesn't really help)
Toughness
Archery
SKILLS THAT ARE CURRENTLY GOOD:
Ambush (+5 initiative can affect lineup)
Stand your ground
Rush (My favorite skill, always pick this whether might or magic -> get a tank creature up early forcing all the enemy attacks to it, then heal it)
Pressed attack
Counterstrike
This is for might skills only, as magic skills are okay to me (tears - healing, blood - destructive)
Funny, I consider Reinforcement a mandatory skill for any of my Heroes. At the same time, I never choose Stand Your Ground, or Pressed Attack. Ambush comes only very late. Rush has its use, but it's not a primary pick from the skills.
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RollingWave
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 23, 2011 12:50 PM |
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Yeah, I think it's mixed right now , some skills are too good some are not and more than a few are simply too much effected by bugs to be really sure
Luck's brokeness kinda puts a wack into most luck related skills, if it was working properly I'd think Heroism may be imbal for example 
Skills that are obviously bugged
1.All luck related stuff for non Necros
2.Cleave, it's so bugged it isn't even funny. it's still useful though, just that the bug is so obvious.
Right now, I think most of the 2-3 tier skills (except counterstrike) are too weak, for example luck 1 is actually pretty useful for Necros (where luck actually works) but luck 2 and 3 are essentially the same thing and require higher lvl points makes it completely uselesss.
Most stats adding skills seem to be too weak right now, adding 1-3 Might for a late game hero does very little. same for defense . spell power effects more than just attack obviously AND they still add more or the same power per skill point? IMHO attack / defense should be either something like 3/4/5 per point or a blanket % in dmg.
Also, battlefield march is a real WTF skill, +2 movement for siege???? what's that suppose to do ?? if it's +1 overall it would actually be quite useful...
Catapult should be more effective as well, if it's like H3 where it randomly attack twice that would be good enough for lvl 1.. lvl 2 need more realistic damage or effect.
Scouting now seems too weak, as now the computer already tells you if stacks are strong or weak, and you can see numbers and choose not to fight etc... it removes a lot of the usefulness of scouting. ideally they should remove some of those advantages but seeing that's unlikely then maybe scouting need some actual effects on combat or other aspects (like +1 movement? maybe just remove pathfinding and have it's effect partially tied into scouting or something.) (note that scouting 3's effect is obviously good but by the time you get it it's obviously not going to be too useful)
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NightWalk
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 23, 2011 02:08 PM |
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When I first played HOMM6 and looked at skill tree , I thought that it will take quite some time to study it all and even more time to develop best builds for different towns/champs.
Now I end up taking same skills for all towns and champs ( Campagne oriented )…
Enlightment - Logistics - Recruitment - Regen/Heal/Vampire - Archery I + II - Rush or Heroism
LvL 15 + I take Cleave , Heroic charge and both buffs that add Might/Def if attack 3x times
Dump rest of points into various ''minor'' passives ….
There isn't much point to take many castabe skills on Hero as fights are short in 95% cases and I end up casting Recruitment on stack that AI prefers to attack or Heroic charge on Panther warriors and paired with cleave kill 3x enemy units ….. In last rounds before battle you apply healing spells and that more or less happens each battle.
IMO currently there are quite obvious ''best'' choices and I would prefer rest of skills to be buffed ( Espec the first page where logistics is located … )
PS : Hi all been lurking here for 3 years and now due to HOMM6 being fresh and unexplored I decided to join this great community.
PS2 : What bug cleave has currently ? Except the fact that kills on retaliation consume it …
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted November 23, 2011 10:24 PM |
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I think the developer meant players of this game to depends on their avatar, i mean the main hero that get to choose path.
Because it seems to me most of the path skills are above most skills in its usefulness.
Anyway, these are my thought on the topic.
Most of the warcry tree are good.
The warfare one seems lacking to me. Even the tier 3 skills.
The rest of the skills are for support, and i think the +status skills are meant for magic heroes, i mean the +might or +def skills,
+luck skills are kinda useless. There is no spell that boost it, while there is a spell that boost morale, for quite insane amount of it.
Quote:
Right now, I think most of the 2-3 tier skills (except counterstrike) are too weak
Well, try heroic charge or taunt. Heroic charge is good, especially with haven sun crusade or other no retaliation attackers. I don't know if it also affect kappas skill.
Taunt is, well if you have very fast unit with very high initiative, you can waste your opponent's creatures turn, at later level it reduce all kind of damage dealt to your creature to 80-100%, that means 0 damage, unless your opponent have dispel, but most player underestimate dispel, so relax. Useless for slow units.
Intimidate is good for some lineup, for others, it screw it.
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RollingWave
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 24, 2011 02:35 AM |
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Quote:
PS2 : What bug cleave has currently ? Except the fact that kills on retaliation consume it �
If they die to secondary effects like say... your Dream Walker's Father sky / Mother Earth skill it also consumes Cleave without actually getting you the extra attack. There are alot of skills that have similar prolems, like Centars auto retaliation, also if you use Pressed attack and it's the Heroes' hit that actually kills them same thing .
Also, as Inferno I've had more than one time where I managed to get Cleave more than once in a fight, though I'm not sure how exactly that happened. might have to do with Gated creatures etc..
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted November 24, 2011 06:47 AM |
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I think that lesser impact translates into longer, thus more fun fights. In previous homm one move often decided about whole fight. I dont think there is any problem in skills being slightly less powerful overall.
That said, all skills on certain tiers should be comperable strength. Skills that enhance abilities of another skill should be less powerful because they dont need separate hero action to use. Passives that work all the time should have weakest effect of all skills within their lvl range.
While making skills interesting is an optional thing for me, having skills with comparable power is mandatory. I think that big part of the feeling that current system is dull is the fact that there are big differences in power of the skills making only handful skills being used.
I think it is pretty obvious that skills with higher lvl requirement should be more powerful then those with lower. At the moment that isnt always true.
Another thing that is mentioned is the fact that one is waiting for another level to kick in because he does not have anything good to choose from. This situation is only present in the 5-15 lvl range. During first couple levels you always have something you want to take. Same is when you reach lvl 15. It is the big gap between 5 and 15 and too few good skills at that level(at the same time many skills from lvl 15 dont require skills from lvl 5 or 1) create this kind of situation.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted November 24, 2011 08:52 AM |
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Quote:
Funny, I consider Reinforcement a mandatory skill for any of my Heroes. At the same time, I never choose Stand Your Ground, or Pressed Attack. Ambush comes only very late. Rush has its use, but it's not a primary pick from the skills.
Reinforcements is really an option if you go tears path, and even then it doesn't help you early on too much (+1 or +2 is low)...
Rush! is fantastic early on, it can make you creep well with core tanks:
Sharkguards - Rush! them up and there -3 movement hit works like a charm and just waves them with preistesses
Sentinels - Rush! them up and attack and heal them with sisters
Upgraded Harpies - Rush! them up to hit and return on first turn
Only demons/necro I don't use Rush!....
Remember the AI/neutral stacks go for the creature that's closest to them and when you Rush! certain creatures up, they go for them...
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted November 24, 2011 09:27 AM |
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Quote:
Battlefield march is a real WTF skill, +2 movement for siege???? what's that suppose to do ?? if it's +1 overall it would actually be quite useful...
Batlle field march is Actually a nice skill that I consider usefull. Much more usefull then for example Duck and cover or Ambush (there bonuses are to small or easyli replaced by artifacts). it has no use for Nagas or Demons, but for Humons, Undead and from a lrag part for Orks it has very good use.
Reinforcements are like Counter strike, they are not for teh early part of the game, but they became usefull in the later part.
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted November 24, 2011 10:05 AM |
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Quote:
Battlefield march is a real WTF skill, +2 movement for siege???? what's that suppose to do ?? if it's +1 overall it would actually be quite useful...
That pretty much depends on the map and on the opponents. On a map with several castles forts to cap^ture and with opponents who like to hide in them, "Battlefield March" is a great skill.
For a map like "A bridge too far", the skill is more optionnal, but it's still good to have since your opponent can't really outrun your slow units. How often did those Wanizame end their movement at 1 square from shooters after the castle door has been destroyed ?
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 24, 2011 10:28 AM |
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Quote:
Also, as Inferno I've had more than one time where I managed to get Cleave more than once in a fight, though I'm not sure how exactly that happened. might have to do with Gated creatures etc..
There seems to be an issue with creatures (re-)entering combat after a Cleave was granted. Things like resurrecting, gating, summoning, etc ... all bring creatures (back) into the game. When those "new" stacks die, a Cleave seems to be granted - which is obviously a bug.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 24, 2011 10:33 AM |
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Quote:
Rush! is fantastic early on, it can make you creep well with core tanks:
I play very defensively, actually. My first turn usually consists of "waiting" just about all my units (shooters are an exception, unless the enemy stack has something like the 50% damage reduction for being an Elemental). This forces the AI to make useless movements forward, without being able to hit anything. Once he is done, I advance my own melee units forward to smack his stacks on the head - usually the first one to absorb a retaliation, before I hit the same stack with the rest of my troops.
Later on, I get Heroic Charge, which changes my combat tactics. Combined with Cleave and units like the Glories and Harpies, it's awesome to charge those forward as soon as possible.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted November 24, 2011 01:21 PM |
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Quote:
I play very defensively, actually. My first turn usually consists of "waiting" just about all my units (shooters are an exception, unless the enemy stack has something like the 50% damage reduction for being an Elemental). This forces the AI to make useless movements forward, without being able to hit anything.
The reason I send up core tank units straight away with Rush! is that my shooters and healers won't take any damage so are "protected" in a way...once the tank core receives damage from being close to enemy, you can heal them! (This works really well with Naga and Haven).
Remember, the enemy won't pursue your shooters/healers and will focus on your closeby stacks, something unique to H6 AI. In previous Heroes games, the enemy used to go for shooters or high damage output stacks first regardless of how close any other stack is....
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted November 25, 2011 02:19 AM |
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Quote:
Batlle field march is Actually a nice skill that I consider usefull. Much more usefull then for example Duck and cover or Ambush (there bonuses are to small or easyli replaced by artifacts). it has no use for Nagas or Demons, but for Humons, Undead and from a lrag part for Orks it has very good use.
Reinforcements are like Counter strike, they are not for teh early part of the game, but they became usefull in the later part.
Tis i agree, flyer combined with heroic charge + battle field march in siege is a very serious threat for shooters, like those radiant glories for example.
I guess some lower tier skill that is not useful at all can be combined with higher tier skill to turn it to become deadly skill.
Perhaps that is what the developer intended, let's give it some time, this game is new, i'm sure in time, people will discover the synergy.
Imo there is no need to rework most skills you guys spoke of, they are already fine as it is, except the bugged one.
Though i believe some blood/tear skill need to be buffed, sanctuary moonsoon for example, it doesn't even compare with tsunami (its tear equivalent), but this is a story for another thread.
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NightWalk
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 25, 2011 05:05 PM |
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Quote:
Remember, the enemy won't pursue your shooters/healers and will focus on your closeby stacks, something unique to H6 AI. In previous Heroes games, the enemy used to go for shooters or high damage output stacks first regardless of how close any other stack is....
Atlest they have learned to position on attacks so that they can reach other/more valuable units during their next attack phase.
Rushing ( I agree wery strong in 3+ week ) seems bit dangerous for me in 1-2 week . Even thou tanks ( Maulers / Sentinels / Sharks ) can take lots of punishment I find that often heals from Sisters/Priestress isn't enough to avoid losses ( Maulers get no support of this kind at all )
While
Waiting and getting free shoots with archers using Reinforcments + 1 other boost of choice on 2nd turn. Then going in with Reinforced tanks on 2nd turn works fine and rarely couses casulties . If you do expect casulties you can use regeneration as 2nd buff.
I do see Rush at first week if you def wana kill ranged creeps guarding something valuable .
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted November 25, 2011 05:21 PM |
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Skill system and the tree in H6 is my biggest disappointment along with the bugs. But while the bugs will eventually be fixed, I don't think it is possible to have a new skill tree. The skill tree must be recreated altogether for me. Some of the skills, as the OP suggests, are very minor, some of them are abviously a neccessity but can be reached easily. The skill tree and the skill system on the whole, are very plain, very simple. There are no longer class specific skill in the skill tree (not talking about racials), all those crowded sub-skills which made the whole game unbelievably variable in H5 or interesting skills just for the fun.
To say it shortly, I detest how the skills are handled in H6 generally.
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noobstaa
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 25, 2011 07:36 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 19:54, 25 Nov 2011.
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i created a excel sheet for all skills that rely on hero stats and level so you can see and calculate the progress on any level with it.
as i dont know how to upload files here, i will share the link from the drachenwald.de/forum [url]http://forum.drachenwald.net/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=8335[/url]
maybe this helpes to review all skills and their progress in damage and effects.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 25, 2011 07:53 PM |
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This is great, thanks for sharing it with us 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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RollingWave
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 28, 2011 03:50 AM |
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Good point on battlefield march, I can now see it's usefulness esepcailly for Haven and Stronghold, Fury with march + heroic charge in a seige would be really REALLY scary. (same to a lesser extend with Glories or Sun Crusaders)
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Miru
Supreme Hero
A leaf in the river of time
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posted November 28, 2011 07:24 AM |
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Skills that need a buff:
All stat boost skills need like a 50% buff, at least.
Logistics and snatch should be combined, and then buffed.
Battle march should add another bonus, maybe initiative.
All siege masters suck, first should be buffed, others shouldn't be damage (maybe initiative or defense penalties or something).
Non scaling damage spells are generally bad outside of campaigns (but they should be left that way to punish noobs who pick them).
All level 1 and 2 war cries and warfare, except flawless assault need a buff, especially scaling for higher level heroes.
Grounded, Frozen Ground, Ice Wall, Terror, Weakness, and Teleport need buffs.
Earthquake needs a buff, and erosion shouldn't exist.
Haste / Slow should last longer.
Puppet Master should boost the units initiative so that it isn't just dispelled as soon as it is cast, and not be so hard to build up to 2 turn effect.
Magic Affinity, Time Stasis, and Stone Skin desperately need nerfs.
Also are you kidding me about reinforcements?! Units past the original limit leave at the end of the battle, but the rest stay. It is effectively an army size scaling preemptive resurrect that doesn't cost mana. It rocks! It means being able to creep late game without losses like a necro!
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I wish I were employed by a stupendous paragraph, with capitalized English words and expressions.
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