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| Thread: About Black Hole Entertainment ... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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x-ecutionner
Known Hero
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posted December 15, 2011 03:46 AM |
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About Black Hole Entertainment ...
Here are some known facts about this HoMM:
Publisher : UBISOFT
Ubisoft devs :
E. Le breton - creative director
Loic Portnoe - game designer / writer
Julien Pirou - lead level designer
INDEPENDANT:
Romero, King, Graves - audio
Puppetwork - 3d animation
Images Creatives - Artists
BLACK HOLE
9 years of AAA titles on PC / X360.
Long development phases. Never got any recognition. Longer dev should equal = better product.
Mark of Chaos
score : 73 webzines 7.1 users
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/warhammer-mark-of-chaos
Warhammer: Mark of Chaos - Battle March (2 years of devs)
score : 53 webzines
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/warhammer-mark-of-chaos---battle-march
Solution to this sucky game : fire Black Hole keep everybody else ?
It seems the elements that failed are mainly BH.
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odium
Known Hero
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posted December 15, 2011 07:49 AM |
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The main fail cause is Ubisoft. BlackHole has its faults but the mastermind is Ubisoft. I think that in the end we got lucky with H5 ToE since Nival managed to learn things fast after a a failed release. However to repeat the whole disaster with another developer team just shows that Ubisoft cannot manage. And their approach on dealing with fans post-release is one of the worst I've ever seen. Without exaggeration I feel cheated for buying H6.
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x-ecutionner
Known Hero
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posted December 15, 2011 09:47 AM |
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Quote:
The main fail cause is Ubisoft. BlackHole has its faults but the mastermind is Ubisoft. I think that in the end we got lucky with H5 ToE since Nival managed to learn things fast after a a failed release. However to repeat the whole disaster with another developer team just shows that Ubisoft cannot manage. And their approach on dealing with fans post-release is one of the worst I've ever seen. Without exaggeration I feel cheated for buying H6.
The main fail, I tend to disagree.
For me it's pretty sure Black Hole couldn't handle the project by itself.
Its two games failed, which means it's just not a good developer.
They didn't include very important features (town screens / simul turns mainly) and their "programmers" managed to do a buggier retail version than the beta.
Ubisoft just irritates the sh.t out of people with DRM - now called conflux - and customer support. Nothing new.
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odium
Known Hero
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posted December 15, 2011 10:03 AM |
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At first glance it looks like this, that BlackHole is the prime evil. But if you look at the big picture, the BIG decisions that are made for the franchise, UBISOFT as the owner is the one that makes the law and gets the $$. Most probably, with the kind of budget that Ubisoft allocates to Heroes there are not many developers that will do better. So yeah, BlackHole did not have the people to deal with the project but who chose them? Who set the budget for the game? What about the tons of experience from the previous installment where at release we had most of the same problems? The reality is that with Ubisoft's current mentality (unlikely to change) nothing extraordinary will happen.
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x-ecutionner
Known Hero
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posted December 15, 2011 10:09 AM |
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Quote:
At first glance it looks like this, that BlackHole is the prime evil. But if you look at the big picture, the BIG decisions that are made for the franchise, UBISOFT as the owner is the one that makes the law and gets the $$. Most probably, with the kind of budget that Ubisoft allocates to Heroes there are not many developers that will do better. So yeah, BlackHole did not have the people to deal with the project but who chose them? Who set the budget for the game? What about the tons of experience from the previous installment where at release we had most of the same problems? The reality is that with Ubisoft's current mentality (unlikely to change) nothing extraordinary will happen.
That's right, which doesn't mean I'm wrong.
If Ubi allowed more money to the HoMM franchise, Black Hole would NEVER have done the sixth installment.
By the same logic, Jon Van Caneghem is responsible for Heroes being worse after 3... see where I'm going ?
Black Hole, with the help of independants studios & people, made the game. The trashbad aspects of the game are from Black Hole (programming, implementing gameplay mechanics). Rest of the H6 manpower did a fine job.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted December 15, 2011 10:14 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 10:17, 15 Dec 2011.
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Black Hole do what they are told to. They are not the franchise owner, hence they are the executor, not the planner. Whatever liberty they are allowed with the game, it is not much. They can be blamed for the sorry technical state of the game - if they have missed some agreed deadlines; for some design decisions - if they are theirs in the first place; but not for the missing content. It's like that - Ubisoft says "this game will have only 5 factions, no sim-turns, no RMG and will be mostly on-line based and the latter even includes part of the content" and Black Hole make them a game with 5 factions, no sim-turns, no RMG and Conflux (although the latter could be Ubisoft's work, can't be sure). So Black Hole's responsibility is about the implementation only. The whole PR, advertisement, customer support, missing content, etc. disaster is completely Ubisoft's handiwork. And yes, as a franchise owner, it is entirely their decision when the game is to be released and in what state.
By the way I've played Warhammer: Mark of Chaos and it's not a bad game at all.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted December 15, 2011 10:16 AM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 10:17, 15 Dec 2011.
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I'm pretty sure the decisions to not include town screens, RMG or let Black Hole talk to outsiders were all made by Ubi, but don't quote me on this.
Some Video game companies also tend to change staff between games, so reputation doesn't have to mean a whole lot.
I mean, Bethesda made Morrowind and Skyrim (which rock) and Oblvion (which was lacking in many aspects).
Besides, H6 got mostly good reviews, didn't it?
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x-ecutionner
Known Hero
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posted December 15, 2011 10:22 AM |
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Quote:
Black Hole do what they are told to. They are not the franchise owner, hence they are the executor, not the planner. Whatever liberty they are allowed with the game, it is not much. They can be blamed for the sorry technical state of the game - if they have missed some agreed deadlines; for some design decisions - if they are theirs in the first place; but not for the missing content. It's like that - Ubisoft says "this game will have only 5 factions, no sim-turns, no RMG and will be mostly on-line based and the latter even includes part of the content" and Black Hole make them a game with 5 factions, no sim-turns, no RMG and Conflux (although the latter could be Ubisoft's work, can't be sure). So Black Hole's responsibility is about the implementation only. The whole PR, advertisement, customer support, missing content, etc. disaster is completely Ubisoft's handiwork. And yes, as a franchise owner, it is entirely their decision when the game is to be released and in what state.
By the way I've played Warhammer: Mark of Chaos and it's not a bad game at all.
I don't see why you want to defend "a small, independant dev studio" against the giant ubisoft.
Hell, Ubisoft even pushed the release date to october to allow BH to fix many things they didn't.
And about the patch : Do you think it's Ubisoft that makes it ? I just think Black Hole is "too small" for such a big project as Heroes.
My regret ? Picking Black Hole as the devs. Nothing else. Why ubi ?
Quote:
I'm pretty sure the decisions to not include town screens, RMG or let Black Hole talk to outsiders were all made by Ubi, but don't quote me on this.
Some Video game companies also tend to change staff between games, so reputation doesn't have to mean a whole lot.
I mean, Bethesda made Morrowind and Skyrim (which rock) and Oblvion (which was lacking in many aspects).
Besides, H6 got mostly good reviews, didn't it?
The awesome aspects about H6 are not made by Black Hole though, but by other independant manpower (audio, 3d animation, artists are indie).
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted December 15, 2011 10:32 AM |
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Ubi had "disagreements" with Nival, so they decided to choose someone (or anyone) else.
Looks like decision was made according to budget. Dont think they payed BH very well (i can be wrong though)
I wish it was Nival, as they had experience, and after ToE H6, i m sure they would have done a much better job
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted December 15, 2011 10:55 AM |
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I don't see why you want to defend "a small, independant dev studio" against the giant ubisoft.
Because "the giant" Ubisoft is making the decisions. Even if you don't like Black Hole and think that they are responsible for everything, you will remember that it's Ubisoft who picked them as a developer. So whose mistake is this?
Moreover, I don't know how familiar are you with the Heroes V development but what I see is a repetition of the same scenario. Ubisoft pushed back the release because they were aware that a game marketed like the original version of Heroes V will cause a huge outrage. The release of Heroes V itself was pushed back too by the way, with 2 months, but still the game was released in a disastrous state. So just face it - Ubisoft just don't mind selling half-completed games, at least as far as Heroes is concerned. And what I now suspect is that Heroes VI didn't manage to generate enough revenue and the project will keep being largely disregarded as opposed to their other games - although I'm pretty certain that Ubisoft and Black Hole have a contract for at least 2 expansions and they will eventually be released. The point is that when the puppet doesn't do something right, it usually means that the puppeteer sucks.
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x-ecutionner
Known Hero
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posted December 15, 2011 12:40 PM |
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Quote:
The point is that when the puppet doesn't do something right, it usually means that the puppeteer sucks.
Well, I personally think Ubisoft by themselves (developers and distributers at the same time) do the best games of the decades (Conviction / AC serie are my top 15 games ever), and they are the distributors for ATON of games nowadays, though they may not care about their smaller franchise. The way they first chose Nival - with respect to that team - although they had the money to probably even hire Relic entertainment for Heroes 5... that's disappointing.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted December 15, 2011 12:53 PM |
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Well, here you go, they consider Heroes a small franchise and don't invest in it. It almost looks like they don't care noticing its existence and it's being managed by some basement office of theirs where the people who have nothing else to do are assigned to... do something. But that's where another tricky part comes - they have actually claimed that they care about the Heroes franchise which makes it all even more annoying.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted December 15, 2011 12:53 PM |
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There are a lot of bugs and errors in H6 which can be blamed at Black Hole. But I think even with all those ironed out, I still wouldn't like the game - because I dislike just about every development turn they took for this game compared to H5. And that is UbiSoft's fault.
____________
What will happen now?
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted December 15, 2011 01:00 PM |
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Both Ubisoft and Black Hole fail. There's no need to defend one over the other. The reason we can sling a shot at Black Hole and not Ubisoft, is that they're easier to get rid of.
Truly, I would love to see Ubisoft selling the rights of Heroes to someone else. But I don't see that happening. It's more possible though that they may hire a new dev company to do the next installments, more competent this time.
____________
Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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forest001
Known Hero
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posted December 15, 2011 01:33 PM |
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Quote:
... more competent this time.
i would expect 'even cheaper' not more competent imho. as h6 does not look like it will do great so the next part will get even smaller budget if any...
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted December 15, 2011 01:44 PM |
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H6 isn't doing poorly. Its reviews look to be around 4 out of 5 stars. A decent expansion is pretty much guaranteed.
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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x-ecutionner
Known Hero
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posted December 15, 2011 01:54 PM |
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Both Ubisoft and Black Hole fail. There's no need to defend one over the other. The reason we can sling a shot at Black Hole and not Ubisoft, is that they're easier to get rid of.
Truly, I would love to see Ubisoft selling the rights of Heroes to someone else. But I don't see that happening. It's more possible though that they may hire a new dev company to do the next installments, more competent this time.
And again we agree.
If only JVC could get back into the Might&Magic universe... but I think it's just a dream.
Seriously though, If UBI could sell the rights to THQ - which worked with alot of Relic titles (Company of Heroes, Dawn of war serie), I would be snowing happy.
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odium
Known Hero
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posted December 15, 2011 01:54 PM |
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Isn't doing poorly because of the momentum the series still had after H5 ToE. I would not bet my money on the success of the next add-on unless they manage to change the things considerably for the current installment.
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forest001
Known Hero
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posted December 15, 2011 01:55 PM |
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H6 isn't doing poorly. Its reviews look to be around 4 out of 5 stars. A decent expansion is pretty much guaranteed.
reviews mean squat, what matters are sales
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x-ecutionner
Known Hero
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posted December 15, 2011 02:10 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
H6 isn't doing poorly. Its reviews look to be around 4 out of 5 stars. A decent expansion is pretty much guaranteed.
reviews mean squat, what matters are sales
I tend to agree on the PC gaming market that sales mean quality.
On the console market however, it's all about mediatisation. Have a look at the main blockbuster console games and you'll understand how snowty this console gen is.
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