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| Thread: The preorder system is broken | |
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted March 15, 2012 12:37 AM |
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The preorder system is broken
An interesting article from Gamespot about preordering and how it might be harming the game industry.
I never preorder games. (In fact, I'm usually about a year behind in my game purchases, because I prefer to buy them used and on the cheap, when most of the patching is done). Seems like insanity to me, especially in the days of instant downloads. Do any of you guys do it?
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted March 15, 2012 02:05 AM |
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I generally only preorder when I can get awesome exclusive goodies. Witcher 2 is a good example... maps and pamphlets and coins and OST CDs and Making Of DVDs and game guides and paper crafts and **** I don't even know. All for the same price as the regular game.
Also, it has to be a company that I trust. Currently these companies are CDPRED and Ark System Works.
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted March 15, 2012 03:41 AM |
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I always pre-order from Steam if it's a game I've been waiting for. Pre-ordered H6, SSF4 AE. Would have pre-ordered ME3 and would pre-order Diablo 3 if they were on Steam.
I don't see a problem really. If I don't pre-order it, I will buy it the moment it's released anyway. What does it matter? Only that, with pre-order, I start downloading earlier and play it earlier.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted March 15, 2012 04:23 AM |
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I can think of lots of reasons preordering is bad, at least collectively. The central argument of the article I linked to is that when large numbers of people preorder a game, it sends a message to game developers that consumers purchase games based on marketing rather than on actual content. I mean, when you preorder a game you are doing so before you really know whether the game is actually going to be any good - you as a consumer are trusting that the developer is going to put out a quality product based on past efforts with the same brand name. When large numbers of people preorder, it could be argued that this encourages game developers to just crank out quick sequels in existing franchises (where preorders are more likely) vs starting new franchises with long development cycles. The article uses the example of Assassin's Creed III, which is already taking preorders despite being more than 6 months away from release. The game can hardly be close to being done, and it's already a top list seller. In what other industry does this kind of behavior happen? Nobody pays for cars six months before they can drive them off the lot. Why do people purchase video game products in advance of actually being able to play them? It's a crazy kind of mentality in my opinion that is at odds with the way people purchase virtually any other kind of consumer product.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted March 15, 2012 08:15 AM |
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Quote:
In what other industry does this kind of behavior happen?
Went to a stand-up show last friday and I had those tickets booked since January.
Not 6 months but ya know... still... the behaviour does exist outside of the video game industry.
I think it's kinda foolish as well but so far I haven't regretted pre-ordering anything.
If the developers start making ****ty games their reputation will be ruined pretty quickly... not sure how much marketing can save them then. Might work for one game or two but... would be very foolish of them.
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foxxxer
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 15, 2012 01:35 PM |
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Edited by foxxxer at 17:38, 15 Mar 2012.
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I really wonder how can gamers make proper conclusion weather the game is good or not on the base of several screenshots and some vague hints about the mechanics? Reliance on publishers, brands, titles, etc is a double-edged sword. Correct me if I’m wrong but the history of the games shows that the good games have an evolution for 2 or 3 “chapters” in the series and then go downhill due to exhaustion (except simulators such as NFS, FIFA, PES, etc, which don’t have a deep story-line). After the board is tribute to Heroes let make example with that game. From H1 to H3 the game was evolving and the zenith was H3. After that has been going downhill. Someone can say H5 has more sold copies but that’s not indicator for quality because the market in 2005 was times bigger than that in 1999 and 2000. That can happen with Assassin's Creed III example in the article and many people will get disappointed in the end. Why should gamers pre-order something because previous game from the series is good or the publisher is "reliable" or some goodies in the box? I don't get it.
I remember in the past when every game had demo version and you can understand everything you need about the game. Now more rarely I see demos. And why should publishers release demos after the customers pre-ordering the game six months earlier. For example the people who pre-ordered H6 one of goodies was Beta key. WTF?! That was Ubisoft’s “we care about you” to the guys who pre-ordered. In my eyes that was total insult. It makes more sense to give free key to every one in sake to attract other people too. But what I know? After some time the beta became demo and as I remember it wasn’t free. How do they expect to make me buy the game? That’s not gonna happen. So I downloaded the game from torrent tracker. After 3-4 maps in the campaigns I realized that don’t like the game and deleted it from the HDD. I’ll never pre-order or buy game which price is 40, 50, 60 euros for playing 3-4 maps.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted March 15, 2012 02:05 PM |
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@Ad
Quote:
Went to a stand-up show last friday and I had those tickets booked since January.
That's a bit different, I think, because in that case you're not buying a physical product, but the ability to attend an event with limited space available. There'd be no need, for example, to purchase tickets in advance (make a reservation, say) to an online event, where there were a virtually infinite number of "seats" and every "seat" was identical.
Regarding the repurcussions of turning out a bad game: It's true that the quality of a game will still impact future sales, even with lots of preorders. It still doesn't really make much sense to me. Back in the days when the only place to get a game was a brick and mortar store, it made a sort of sense. (Like the author in the article, I, too, remember driving around for hours on the day of release to find a store that still had a copy of my anticipated game). But online vendors like Amazon have huge stocks, so running out is an almost impossibility. Maybe it's just because I don't place much value on all the gimicky crap that vendors use to get people to pay money in advance of release. Figurines, and etc. Just junk IMO.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted March 15, 2012 02:08 PM |
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Ah, in my case it's the same thing at least... I generally only preorder when I can get my hands on some limited stuff, like the Witcher 2 edition I mentioned.
Same thing as limited seats, just with limited copies of the game.
In the case of a virtual event with unlimited copies of the product I agree though, no need to preorder. I'd much rather wait and read reviews in that case.
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Shares
Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
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posted March 15, 2012 03:35 PM |
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It's fun that you bring this up, since I was discussing the Sale of Goods act. and similar, on a related topic.
Well, in a sense a stand up comedy is a one time thing, content based, while games are reoccuring. You rarely enjoy seeing a film or a comedy performance twice, so when you actually see it you usually know very little about it. What you have to go on is usually a trailer and previous performance. Another thing that is difference is consistency. You can rely on Betner being a funny guy, but you can't really assume that every game that a game developer makes will be any good. Even Blizzard that is near legendary for only making high quality games have some stains on their record.
This also means that after you've seen the performance or movie it is used up to you. It's dead and nearly meaningless. A game should also have a gameplay element and gameplay is more long lasting. You don't quit playing T:A after having played every map once. There's something more to it than content, and that is gameplay.
This is also related to why demos are rare today. Gameplay focused games can't really release a demo, since they would more or less release the full product. If I want to make a demo to T:A the only thing I could cut out would be content. Maybe limit games to a single map, but I could have a great time playing just one map. Me and a friend did it with the BF 1942 demo. It was limited to a few maps, so we just played those. After playing the demo people often feel that they're done with it. All of the statistics on this shows that demos will reduce income, with very, very few exceptions.
Same thing with evaluative piracy. "I download the game because I want to try it out before I pay." is a very common arguement, yet almost all studies show that almost no people will actually pay for the game afterwards, even after playing the game a lot, and I feel like playing 200h of a game and then say "Nah. This isn't worth my 30 bucks." Just doesn't add up. Especially when you consider that people go to the movies and pay for themselves, while that is just an hour or two of entertainment.
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted March 15, 2012 04:25 PM |
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I'm not seeing pre-ordering directly crippling the content of a game. Companies have to think in the long-term, and part of that means not severely cutting corners in the later development just because a bunch of people already pre-ordered the game. They might rake in some cash for a game or two, while simultaneously cutting down on the production costs, but if their quality dips it will bite them in the ass sooner or later.
Then again, everybody in the business has a budget and a net amount that they've been allocated to work with. If an additional 1.5% of Blizzard's budget gets funneled into marketing, then that's 1.5% that isn't being spent elsewhere for their fiscal year. And if you have a cultural oddity where a lot of people pre-order games despite the practical value of pre-ordering now being obsolete, then you can understand why companies would want some heavy marketing. Not only will it secure some safe sales ahead of time, but the early marketing will make future marketing of the game more effective. You get X people that already pre-ordered a game 12 years in advance for whatever godforsaken reason and sailed it into the top-selling list, then that in itself is a marketing tool to make people want to buy the game. Snowball effect.
They can throw some fluff into a pre-order to sweeten the deal, but I can also see how that can be a problem. When I bought Starcraft, it came in a nice thick box with a strategy guide included that could alternatively be used as an effective bludgeoning weapon. How many skull-bashing books come with game's now? Well, you might get one, if you pre-order, but that's about it. You have to pre-order if you want to get stuff that in the past you might have got normally.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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avalon00x
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
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posted March 21, 2012 06:31 PM |
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I love collectors editions.
and those i will pre oder Pretty soon.
For me pre ordering is also the most forgiving thing of DLC.
If a game comes out and has DLC for it within 2 months usualy i get annoyed. However if you pre order and show support to the developers and the game. and you get the first DLC for free i find that acceptable.
i disagree with the Heroes 3 statement tho, but i guess that is an oppinion.
But if anything will kill the gaming industry i think it will be one of the following.
- DLC
- Deliver now Fix later mentality
- Do not listen to Hardcore fans but instead to the Casuals.
- Some idiot complaining about game violence
I think all of the above mentioned are more harmfull to the game industry as pre ordering. Especially since pre ordering has been around for a long long time.
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted March 21, 2012 07:00 PM |
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I usually pre-order a week before release date once I've checked everything out (usually with a few goodies thrown in)
I cancelled my Heroes 6 CE preorder in April and put the dough in the bank (lol, far more productive)
I've preordered Skyrim and ME3, a few weeks prior to release. Skyrim lacks interaction and immersion and ME3 lacks decision weights, all which their predecessors had. Even if they copy pasted survival mode from FO3 i'd be content, but to see such beautiful enviroment and not be able to drink from a damn waterfall is madening  I'd love to see the charater eat the food, or drink the mead while a bard sings, or light a damn campfire, ffs Bethesda if you bother to put firewood in the game, then please go all the way  (Also the music in ME 3 is quite mediocre)
Imho.
What I meant to say is, all the games I've preordered on the sense of 'hype' for the franchise have turned a wee bit sour for my taste, so yes I agree that the pre-order system gives publishers the impression that a half-arsed game will bring in dough, so why bother with all the extra work? (cutting wee curners, not that the entire game is bad)
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted March 21, 2012 07:04 PM |
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Quote:
I can think of lots of reasons preordering is bad, at least collectively. The central argument of the article I linked to is that when large numbers of people preorder a game, it sends a message to game developers that consumers purchase games based on marketing rather than on actual content. I mean, when you preorder a game you are doing so before you really know whether the game is actually going to be any good - you as a consumer are trusting that the developer is going to put out a quality product based on past efforts with the same brand name. When large numbers of people preorder, it could be argued that this encourages game developers to just crank out quick sequels in existing franchises (where preorders are more likely) vs starting new franchises with long development cycles. The article uses the example of Assassin's Creed III, which is already taking preorders despite being more than 6 months away from release. The game can hardly be close to being done, and it's already a top list seller. In what other industry does this kind of behavior happen? Nobody pays for cars six months before they can drive them off the lot. Why do people purchase video game products in advance of actually being able to play them? It's a crazy kind of mentality in my opinion that is at odds with the way people purchase virtually any other kind of consumer product.
Let me go with an example.
I love Diablo 2. Played it hundred times. And have been waiting for Diablo 3 for years now and it's coming on May.
Say, it was possible to pre-order it on Steam (I only use Steam for digital copies), I would pre-order it without hesitation. Because if there is no pre-order option, I'll already buy it the day it becomes available anyway.
If Blizzard does what you are worried about and cranks out quick sequels, say, Diablo 4 turns out to be a quick sequel as Diablo 3 recieved many pre-orders, this time I won't pre-order Diablo 5, and wait for it to become available. And see some customer and critic reactions before I buy it.
But until a franchise starts to do that thing, there is no reason for not to pre-order its sequels, as they are still producing with the same quality. If they change that, I'll also change my purchasing approach to that franchise.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted March 21, 2012 07:55 PM |
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@Nocturnal
Quote:
is no reason for not to pre-order
People don't do things because there's no reason not to. People do things because there's a reason to do them.
You stated you'd pre-purchase Diablo 3 from Steam with no hesitation. Why? It's not because "there's no reason not to". At least in the old days, there was a good reason to do it - there were limited numbers of hard copies at B&M stores, so pre-ordering ensured you would get one on the day of release. In the case of a digital download, there's no limit to the number of copies that can be distributed - you'll be able to download whether you purchase now or the day it is released. So what's the motivation to do it now? Promised extras? Pure excitement? Brain tumor making you crazy?
Just curious. 
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Shares
Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
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posted March 21, 2012 08:00 PM |
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If the company throws in goodies for you when you preorder, doesn't that signal that they want to sell as many copies before the general public can make a fair opinion on the product? Food for thought.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted March 21, 2012 08:32 PM |
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Well of course, and that goes back to the original assertion that with a pre-ordering system, marketing becomes more important to a game's success than content development.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted March 22, 2012 12:55 AM |
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@Shares: I like to think of it as giving the loyal fans something extra.
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