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| Thread: The Fortress faction (H3 Fortress, H6 style) | |
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moonshade
Known Hero
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posted April 03, 2012 07:05 PM |
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The missing factions, H6 style: Fortress complete, updated 28/04
Dwarf faction is renamed Keep/Bastion.
Fortress
Aka: The Wild Ones, the Beastmen, Children of the Muck
“Men are weak, the Time of Beasts ia at hand!"
A loose coalition of various Beastmen races alongside some especially feral humans, who call the wilderness and especially the swamps of mainland Ashan home. While each tribe lives independant from each other- in wartime they unite under the banner a tempoarily-appointed Beast-King into a single savage horde.
* The Gnolls are Beastmen created through the unholy fusion of man and hyena, with the added mix of some Hellhound blood. After the Orcs had escaped, they were made to serve as light infantry against their created brethren- but likewise rebelled.
* Lizardmen were created by the Wizards to serve as scouts in aquatic, jungle and swamp terrains especially in wars fought against the Orcs and the Naga, interestingly by using the blood of those very same Naga alongside that of skinks, monitor lizards and various other reptiles.
* Trolls are crocodile-based Beastmen, though blood trafusions taken from Breeders and an unknown vile mixture gave them regenerative capabilities and resistance to disease and poison. Over the years the special diet which originally gave them their regeneration had somehow calmed their Demonic urges, denying access to the Bloodrage- although they are still not well-known for an especially gentle nature...
* Some humans also call the swamp home- pirates, aboriginal tribes and deranged recluses. Over the years, only the toughest and most vicious of them survived the uneasy enviroment and neighbours, and they have become as savage as the beasts that surround them.
Originally reclusive and keeping to themselves, the wars of the outside world had recently spilled into their lands- and forced the Wild Ones to bare their claws and defend themselves.
Similarly to the Orcs, the Wild Ones only suffered slavery at the outside world- and the swamp, alongside the beasts they were created from, is the only place where they can live as free creatures. They have no desire for the otuside world and not the barest interest or respect for its culture.
Wild Ones generally fight with teeth, claws and the most simple of weapons, and metal weapons are very rare amongst them (and usually looted from slain enemies). They don't believe in man-made armor, as their thick skins and scales are usually as powerful as any steel, if not more so. Their magic, collectively called Witchcraft, consits of Elemental magic- especially Dark, Earth and Water, potion and herb-based alchemy and Hoodoo- fate-altering curses of vengeance.
Country / kingdom:
Marawak, the Lost Kingdom, the Kingless Kingdom, Land of Beasts (as well as a small outpost in the Pao Islands)
Capital city:
Ssolvara, the Dread Orchestra (known for the hideous shrieking sounds made when even the barest wind passes through the gaping mouths of the forest of shrunken heads which surround the city)
Worship
The Wild Ones worship a complex pantheon of swamp spirits they call Loa, whose distinctive traits are mainly strength or cunnning (and sometimes both). The various Loa are all said to the heads of Borrkan- Dragon of the Wild, the product of Sylvanna's rape by her father Urgash- whose body formed the swampland and whose spilled blood formed the muck, being imprisoned there by the Seventh Dragon Sar-Elam. When the Time of Beasts shall come, Borrkan will burst out of the mud and return everything to its natural wild state- with humans being hunted by the Beasts, and not vice versa. The main difference between Wild One and Demon philosophy is that they do not seek to actively release Borrkan- believing his release is inevitable anyway.
The recent events
The increasingly-common incursions of other factions into Marawak had led the Elder Witches to declare the Games of Tooth and Claw- the great contest between the tribes' finest warriors and magicians to appoint a new Beast King, who will defend the swamp and drive the enemies outside. The encounters with previously unseen cultures had led the Wild Ones to develop new outlooks and political relations- though more often than not quite hostile- with the new invaders.
The Beastmen look down on the Empire's humans as weaklings who hide their soft flesh behind steel armor and pretend to be lords over a nature which cannot be tamed. They also taste quite nice...
Though no worshippers of Asha, the Wild Ones have no practicular hatred of the Undead and some Witch Doctors even practice their own form of alchemical Necromancy.
They hate and fear the Demons as they tend to burn down large parts of the swamp during their incursions and for their unnatural sadism (as the Wild Ones kill only for self-defense or the Hunt), but at the same time have a grudging respect for them as Ashan's ultimate predators.
The Orcs are highly-respected as tough warriors, and are occasional allies- though more often enemies, as they tend to inhabit the same harsh terrains of swampland and jungle and fights over territory are common. The Wild Ones often criticize the Orcs' enraged and reckless fighting style as they claim a survivor is not necessarily the strongest- but more often the most cunning. Also, the Trolls' "betrayal" is something the Orcs' never forgave the Wild Ones for.
The Naga are viewed by Lizardmen and Trolls as reptilian brethren- but at the same time they fail to understand their pretense to human-like, civilized culture and fighting techniques and view it as silly.
The Wizards are viewed as hated slavers and are feared for their powerful and unnatural magic, which is so radically different from that of the Wild Ones. A slain Wizard's head is a highly valued trinket of any aspiring Headshrinker.
Although weak-bodied like the humans, the Wild Ones possess some grudging respect for the Wood Elves of Irollan due to the admiration they show to nature and its beasts- and they often tend to ally against the same enemies. Still, sometimes the Elves view the Wild Ones' methods as too brutal- which can lead to skirmishes.
Finally, the alien Faceless terrify the Wild Ones and the horror of being enslaved and broken like the Mintoaurs drives them to fiercely fight Dungeon forces whenever they surface in the swamplands. Still, they would've liked to "liberate" fearsome beasts like Hydras (as they actually remind the Beastmen of the image of their Dragon-god Borrkan) Drakes and Chimerae into their own ranks.
Fortress warfare: "The swamp fights our war, and we devour what's rest"
Though savage, animalistic cunning also fills a dominant role in Fortress warfare. Bitter experience had led the Beastmen to understand sometimes their natural weapons and simplistic magic proves cannot match the advanced weaponry and potent magic of the other races in a fair fight- so why fight fair on the first place? Honor is so overrated, unnatural and "human" anyway. While usually inferior to troops of other races in a fair fight, Fortress thrive on guerilla warfare- hit-and-run tactics, nasty disabling abilities and the usage of poison, camouflage and traps. Together with massive numbers- as breeding is one of the Beasts' favorite activities- they can close the gap with armies who are otherwise far superior in statistics or magic.
The ideal fight for Fortress is a prolonged battle of attrition fought over a swamp, to fully utilize their racial ability and home advantages. Many of their troops tend to have unusually high defense and survivability rates and resistance to disease and posion- which together with their high numbers makes them the ideal faction for attrition tactics.
* Military strengths:
Cheap and plentiful troops, powerful debuff abilities, superior defense and hit points, great home advantages
* Military weaknesses:
Low attack power, vulnerable to magic and fire, low mobibility, limited magic access, weak ranged units
- fills up with more damage taken by your units, encouraging a slow, defense-oriented fighting style (sometimes it's better to Defend and soak up damage with your tanky units and attack the enemy later). Also fills up automatically when fighting on Swamp terrain (or while defending a Fortress town)- again encouraging a defensive, home-team gameplay. Allows you to inflict a nasty curse on enemy units.
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moonshade
Known Hero
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posted April 03, 2012 08:07 PM |
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Fortress Troops
Will be edited of-course!
Headhunter - Headshrinker:
A short, skink-like Lizardmen wielding a blowgun and a huge machette.
Drowsy
Camouflage (upgrade)
Half Range
Shooter
No Melee Penalty
Marauder - Savager
A flail-wielding Gnoll riding a drooling hyena in a saddle made of bones.
Large Creature
Eater of the Dead
Crushing Bite
Hideous Laughter (upgrade)
Troll - Troll Crone
A large, stooped creature with long arms and dirty sharp claws, its slightly-reptilian face and crocodile tail showing its origins.
Spells
Troll Regeneration
Split (upgrade)
Firefly - Dragonfly
A huge fire-breathing dragonfly with some actually Draconic elements, whose eyes glow meacingly and the air around it shimmers with heat.
Large Creature
Flyer
Fire Breath
Magic Resistance (upgrade)
Witch-fire (upgrade)
Gorgon - Mighty Gorgon
A massive sulphur-breathing bull, whose "skin" is actually a network of flexible interlocking smooth dark metallic scales.
Large Creature
Steel Scales
Stomp
Death Stare (upgrade)
Waspwort - Venus Flytrap
A multi-colored flower which lashes at its enemies with vines- or has surprisingly huge "teeth"!
Mindless
Fire Vulnerability
Choking Vines
Devour (upgrade)
Spores (upgrade)
Basilisk - Lizard King
A gigantic, six-legged heavily-set lizard whose head is surrounded by a "crown" of crystalline spikes, whose claws and teeth appear to be made out of Dragonblood Crystal.
Large Creature
Crystalline
Crystallizing Venom
Shooter (upgrade)
Short Range (upgrade)
No Melee Penalty (upgrade)
Strategy:
The Fortress' Core units are relatively weak compared to other factions', though they have their advantages: the Headhunter shoots, and though its ranged damage is pathethic its Drowsy poison hurts the enemy over time and lowers its stats. The Marauder has got good mobility and quite good damage for a Fortress unit, especially since its Crushing Bite ignores some defense- and its Eater of the Dead ability makes it more potent against Undead, who are some of the most annoying enemies a Fortress player could face (as the Fortress units' relative weakness and large numbers make them Necromancy-fodder). They are the Fortress' main damage dealers until the Gorgon comes into play. Its weaknesses are large size and relatively low defense (for a Fortress unit).
Trolls are the most important and powerful units for Fortress' early game- as their Regeneration ensures minimal losses in all but the most difficult battles, and their spells (including Dispel). Their biggest disadvantage is slow speed.
In the Elites, Fireflies represent your most offensive unit, acting very similar in playstyle to the Dragons of previous HOMM games.
They are also VERY fast- but vulnerable. Overall they are an atypically offensive unit in the otherwise very defensive Fortress line-up.
Gorgons are the best Fortress Elites, and once more the Death Stare of the upgrades makes them the ideal units' for 1-on-1 fights even against Champions. Their problems are- typical to Fortress- slow speed and damagem, but the Death Stare solves this problem.
Waspworts are a unique unit, whose main purpose is mainly supporting and solving the disadvantages of the other units. Though powerful stat wise they are REALLY slow. Their Choking Vines attack allows you to drag an enemy unit towards you- and into the range of your slow melee fighters and short-range Headhunter and Lizard King. Their Devour ability- even if it only affects Small creatures- allows you to take annoying enemy units out of the equation, at least for awhile.
Basilisks are weak for a Champion, but also cheap and plentiful.
Opinions?
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted April 05, 2012 05:36 PM |
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Some nice ideas here. Love the capitol!
Not sure about croco-trolls...
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moonshade
Known Hero
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posted April 15, 2012 11:17 AM |
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Dungeon and Sylvan
Here are Sylvan and Dungeon drafts, which will be edited of-course. IMHO there should be at least 9 factions: the classic 8 from H3 + Sanctuary. Also, the Expansions should add extra creatures per each faction, alternate upgrades (depending on Blood/Tears) and a form of creature experience like in WoG. Also- more Bosses please, and make them scale as the game progresses!
* Dungeon:
Aka: The Warlocks, the Dark Ones, the Banished
“The Path to Power lies in the Shadows"
A conflicted society of city states, clans and kingdoms which inhabitate the dark places underneath Ashan- collectively called the Abyss. In the harsh, lightless environment the only thing that matters is power- be it might, magic or cunning. A byzantine, secretive and treacherous political network somehow holds the various sub-factions together, as they are guided towards a common goal by unseen and elusive masters- the Faceless.
Dungeon societies make their living off mining the Abyss' precious resources (especially Gold, Ore and Dragonblood Crystal in the deeper parts) and trade with each other and the surface, usually done through especially amoral human proxies. The main products they offer are resources, slaves and beasts of war and secrets- especially of the kind that shifts power and breaks kingdoms. Other times, they embark on massive yet brief military campaigns, intent not on conquest (the wars for territory are usually fought between rivalling Dungeon towns for control of an underground area- and thus the surface above it) but on the capture of resources and especially slaves- to work in the mines and serve as fodder for vile sacrificial rites and magical experiments. Those slaves unfit for service, mining or even experiment fodder become food for the Dungeon monsters' ravenous appetites.
* Humans make a small but important minority in the Dungeon cities. These humans who make their living underground are usually criminals, mad (at least slightly) or simply so power-hungry they embraced life in the Abyss- or were banished into it. In the cities of the Falcon Empire and the Freeholds of the East, many Thieves' and Assassins' guilds are secretly in league with the Dungeon- in return for information, assassination services and mercantile aid they gain access to secrets, exotic merchandise (including especially potent drugs) and especially safe passage through the underground tunnels- allowing them to deliver smuggled goods far from the eyes of the Law and take refuge from the Imperial Army and the Inquisition. Many of the Dungeon leaders- Overlords and Warlocks- are humans, and hold the other physically-superior races in an iron fist of might and magic.
* Dark Elves are the newest addition to the Abyss, and seem to be taking over by the day. Gracious and deadly, they are seeking to subjucate all the other underground races to their will under the banner of a Holy Crusade for their goddess Malassa.
* Minotaurs are the strongest of the Beastmen- but are far from being stupid. While nominally warrior-slaves and gladiators for the amusement of human and Dark Elf elite, some Minotaurs buy their freedom with blood and rise to power.
* Troglodytes are blind and tortured creatures of shadowy origin. They comprise the bulk of the Dungeon infantry, and are said to act (at least partially) on a direct mental link with the Faceless- thus . While normally barely intelligent to do anything other than hitting with their crooked polearms and maintaining some formation, the occasional Troglodyte sometimes shows promise and rise to leadership position- some say by recalling memories from a pre-mutant life...
Banished from Irollan for a crime they didn't commit, the Dark Elves seek to carve a place for themselves in the underworld of the Abyss.
The newly arrived clans, led by Prince Raelag, pose a united front against the cities whicg are ruled by a plethora of warring Overlords, Warlocks, Black Dragons and Faceless lords. With the blessing of the Dark Goddess, they must make their name and prove their might- or be devoured by the terrible inhuman beasts which call the Abyss home.
Dungeon armies are some of the most dreaded forces in all Ashan.
Relentless and cruel training methods which ensure only the survival of the fittest and iron discipline- together with abilities already far superior to those of normal man and beasts- create a force not to be trifled with. In short, Dungeon forces bring a powerful combination of mobility and offensive melee power combined with better-than-average survivability rates to the field- single unit wise, they are the most powerful faction in the game (perhaps rivalled by Academy). Their only shortcomings are low growth rates and a high price per each unit (forcing a dependance on strong economy and tactical gameplay) and sub-par healing and support abilities. Their shooters are also slightly inferior to those of other factions and despite their mobility they have only 1 flyer- but they make up for these in the fact Warlocks and any moderately-experienced (and up) Overlords serve as a one-man artillery with mastery over destructive and harmful magic- especially Dark, Earth, Fire and Prime, which they can further empower through their Racial ability of Dark Arts.
Country / kingdom:
The Abyss
Capital city:
Ygg-Shaloth, the Crawling City- is the capital of Alamar- the so-called "Underking", the megalomaniac Warlock who controls the majority of the Abyss due to his alliance with the dread Black Dragons. The Dark Elves dwell in a set of Faceless ruins called Ygg-Chall.
Worship
The conflicting cities worship a plethora of gods, none of them benevolent. The most common- being the god of the Faceless and Dark Elves- is Malassa, but others include Urgash and Borrkan- the Dragon of the Wild (especially among the beast-handler caste).
The recent events
The arrival of the Dark Elves had brought war to the Abyss. The dark spaces are far from empty, and many of the hideous monsters and dark things they encounter already serve a dread master- Alamar, the Underking, Master of the Black Dragon, said to be much more (or less) than a human being. If Raelag wants a place for his people other than slaves or food for Alamar's beasts- he has take it by force!
Dungeon denizens look upon the Falcon Empire humans with distaste at best. Sometimes a foolish Knight or Cleric leads his flock in a crusade to "bring Elrath's Light into the Abyss"- a good opportunity to hone the army's fighting skills, capture new slaves and feed the beasts. Yet, in surface areas where the human presence is strong, Dungeons often trade with them through amoral and greedy human proxies- while at the same time weakenning them from within with their endless plotting and brokering of harmful secrets.
The Necromancers of Asha often make allies to the Warlocks, alebit unreliable ones due to their fanatic devotion to Asha (as Malassa's worship is mostly opportunistic in nature in most Dungeon socieites).
Many Warlocks had actually gone to study Necromancy with Asha's cults to bolster their own forces- though Asha's worshippers frown upon their unchecked and selfish- and thus far weaker- use of the Grey Art.
Due to Sheogh's relative proximity to the Abyss and the plethora of fiery vents and portals leading to the Demons' prison-world, there have been many encounters between Demonic and Dungeon forces in the past- usually ending in conflict, but sometimes short-term alliances which quickly shatter as the balance of power shifts. It is said Alamr himself is actually dreaming of releasing Urgash- and enslaving him to his will, becoming a god in the process.
The Orcs are interesting- a race of magical mongrels which gained their freedom and established a culture of their own- alebit stupid and primitive. This proves a dangerous example to the Dungeons' own slaves- and thus conflict is extremely common, especially due to the Orcs' magic-hating nature.
Wild Ones are viewed slightly better than the Orcs, due to the fact they don't completely despise magic. Trade in spell components and especially beasts of war is quite common in places where they co-exist- but these alliances are extremely fickle, to say the least.
The Naga are outdated fools, a once-great race whose devotion to the obscure ideals of loyalty and honor will prove its downfall. Still, the Dungeon's sub-par aquatic capabilities and the aversion of many of its creatures from water makes conflicts sparse.
The Wizards are more often than not enemies, as they often compete with the Warlocks for the same magical texts and resources. Conflicts between Dungeon and Academy forces are often describe as a contest to see who has created the better monsters... Indeed, wild rumors claim the Wizards had recently crafted a Construst- called a "Titan"- said to rival the Black Dragon itself in might!
Ah, the Wood Elves... Foolish and bigoted beings, murderers of their own kin (the Dark Elves) and the Dungeon's clearest enemies. When the forests burn and their wives and children become slaves and playthings , they will understand the folly of rejecting the power offered in the Dark Arts.
Dungeon warfare: "Destroy them to the last!"
Dungeon warfare is quick and brutal. On all tiers, their troops possess no clear weaknesses- being amongst the best (if not the best) on their tier, this fact offset by low growth rates and very high price. They usually soften enemy troops with Destructive magic before closing in for the kill, dealing mass damage in very short time in the enemy's ranks- before their precious troops can suffer any significant losses (which are hard to replenish due their low growth rates and sub-par healing). The heart of Dungeon warfare is compared of Troglodyte pikemen, supported by eyeray-shooting Beholders and Dark Elf Stalker skirmishers. Their Elite tier is all about quick offensive power in the Minotaur and Chimera, with the Mistress weakening the enemy. Finally, the Hydra is a devastating melee tank- its only disadvantage being slow speed and no real immunity to magic.
* Military strengths:
Powerful troops, melee offense, magical resistances and immunities, powerful offensive magic
* Military weaknesses:
Expensive troops, low growth rates, weak shooters, only 1 flyer, weak healing and support, spell point reliance
Dark Arts- fills up when magical damage is dealt by your Hero or units. Allows you to empower destructive spells by additional damage, as well as other modifications like resistance-breaching and damage over time.
Core:
Watcher / Beholder
Shooter
No Melee Penalty
Relentless Sight
Cursed Gaze (Upgrade)
Troglodyte / Scarred Troglodyte
Blind Immunity
Pike Attack
Pain Immunity (Upgrade)
Stalker / Kinslayer
Backstab
Hit-and-Run
Venom Blade (Upgrade)
Kinkiller (Upgrade)
Elite:
Chimera / Horrid Chimera
Large Creature
Flyer
Chimeric Attack
Magic Immunity (up to level 2, 3 in upgrade)
Terror (Upgrade)
Minotaur / Minotaur Gladiator
Large Creature
Bravery
Headbutt
Fearless (Upgrade)
Throw Net (Upgrade)
Mistress / Matriarch
Whip Attack (limited range attack with no melee penalty)
Spells
Dark Summoning (Upgrade)
Champion:
Hydra / Abyssal Hydra
Large Creature
No Retaliation
Multi-headed Attack
Regeneration
Acidic Blood (Upgrade)
Armored (Upgrade)
Campaign-only: In the Campaign Alamar's human Dungeon faction gets 2 units instead of existing ones, which are more or less identical to the Dark Elf Dungeon units (which are used in Skirmish and multiplayer). When such a Dungeon is captured by Raelag's forces, you can do a mini-conversion into the corresponding Dark Elf units. In general Stalkers are more powerful than Rogues, while Cabalists are superior to Mistresses.
The units are:
Rogue / Assassin (replaces Stalker/Kinslayer)
Loot
Hit-and-Run
Backstab (Upgrade)
Venom Blade (Upgrade)
Cabalist/Invoker (replaces Mistress/Matriarch- a male human Warlock)
Shooter
Spells (slightly more destruction-oriented than the Mistress' debuffs)
Dark Ritual (Upgrade)
Heroes:
Might Neutral: Overlord
Might Tears: Dragonlord
Might Blood: Blood Tyrant
Magic Neutral: Warlock/Witch (Inferno Magic Hero is renamed Sorcerer)
Magic Tears: Dominator
Magic Blood: Destroyer
The Bosses of-course would be specific Faceless (like the Archangels you fight in Heroes 6), as well as Black Dragon Sons/Daughters of Malassa. BTW- the Dragonlord's ultimate ability is summoning a Red Dragon (a weaker version of the Black Dragon Boss, also fought on the campaign) for 2 rounds!
Spoiler: after Raelag plows through endless legions of underground monsters as well as a gauntlet of Dragons and Alamar himself, it is revealed the whole thing was merely a cruel test set by the Faceless (who encouraged Alamar's descent into megalomaniac madness) for the Dark Elves to prove their mettle and claim their rightful place as Malassa's chosen and masters of the Abyss. At the epilogue, Raelag is seen riding Shadowscar- Alamar's former ally and mount- and leading a flight of Drakes, Chimerae and Dragons and endless black legions on the ground towards the next war against the Wood Elves of Irollan.
Sylvan
Core:
Huntress / Amazon
Timber Wolf / Dread Wolf
Thorn / Dryad
Elite:
Star Knight / Moon Knight
Slicer Beetle / Rhino Beetle
Great Spirit / Genus Loci
Champion:
Faerie Dragon / Glamer Dragon
Heroes:
Might Neutral: Ranger
Might Tears: Warden
Might Blood: Avenger
Magic Neutral: Druid
Magic Tears: Wildcaller
Magic Blood: Lycanthrope
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted April 19, 2012 11:15 AM |
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Somehow divided about your rampart. SOme creas are nice, some not so (I'm not soo for beetles, though they are somehow fit), others don't hint on what they are...what's a star knight, for example?
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 19, 2012 11:52 AM |
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All of these look like a bunch of creatures thrown together, and not in a good way, which was always one of my complaints with H3, while (sometimes) interesting, most of the factions seemed to have no cohesion, they were like a bunch of creatures that just happened to live in vaguely the same terrain, rather than a group of creatures that might b e friends.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted April 19, 2012 12:39 PM |
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I dunno, I'd rather not have a repeat of the H5 dwarf faction (or almost any of the other factions in that game for that matter).
There are multiple reasons for why some choose to join or get recruited by whatever faction (ideologies, necessities, etc,), many of which are based on the mythological characteristics of each legendary creature.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 19, 2012 12:56 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 12:57, 19 Apr 2012.
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The dwarves were badly made, but the humans were little better, and I know, yes, it's traditional, but tradition is a cheap, lazy excuse for keeping a dull unimaginative faction. No, I was thinking more of Sylvan (less the Blade Dancers), or Preserve, it's basically a mix of units but a cohesive one, even without knowing the back-story you can tell how it all fits together. Back in Rampart it was a different story, I was never quite sure how the centaurs, dwarves and elves all got along, even with never having read Tolkien or any other contemporary fantasy, the whole thing seemed jammed-together, the tall slender elves and short stocky dwarves just didn't work together.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted April 19, 2012 03:22 PM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 15:23, 19 Apr 2012.
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The humans represent humanity, this much is a given. It is apparently very difficult to make a strategy game and not include a human faction,
whether they're shown in a positive, negative or varying light.
The HoMM series is not alone in this.
The other factions represent nature, power, knowledge, chaos, etc.
It's not that difficult to see why a black dragon—one of the most powerful beings—chooses to align itself with the faction most fixated on power (warlocks, overlords).
Likewise, the Tower faction consists mostly of slave labourers, automatons and summoned beings, showing the Wizards/Alchemists' magickal aptitude,
amoral attitude and thirst for knowledge.
On the topic of dwarf/elf correlation, the dwarves may very well have been inspired by these guys
Jolly fellows living in the woods.
I'm really just rambling here.
Point is, I like the H3 method of doing things over the H5 (generic unit names, more than 2 creatures of the same race) and H6 (generic unit names,
cheap imitations/copy+pasted existing creatures) methods.
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moonshade
Known Hero
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posted April 20, 2012 07:53 AM |
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My opinion
IMHO it's much better for a faction to represent a THEME rather than a RACE. I think the only race-specific factions should be Haven, Inferno and Necropolis, and maybeeeee Sanctuary (of course I'm talking the 5 H6 factions + Academy, Sylvan, Dungeon and H3-style Fortress- the Dwarves are boring and I ignore them). For example, while Orcs might be the main race of the Stronghold, the faction is also composed of races like Goblins, Ogres and wild, Orc-blooded humans and its theme is rage, savagery and constant warfare (as opposed to the Fortrss' also wild, alebit more cautious and cunning theme). Also, while Dungeon might have Dark Elves, they also have humans, Troglodytes, Minotaurs and Dvergar (Dark Dwarves)- and the theme is monsters of the underground world, secrets, dark horror and thirst for power. Same with Sylvan- the theme is creatures of the gentle forest and the preservance of nature, and the races would be Wood Elves, humans and Fey.
I think theme-based factions are much more interesting than race-based ones- Dugeonn IMHO shouldn't be called the Dark Elves, they should be the Warlocks or Dark Army- just a big chunk of them happens to be Dark Elves, but definately not all the cities of Ygg-Chall are dominated by them (in a way like D&D's Underdark- while the Drow might be dominant, they definately not the main or only species/culture out there).
Really I think more than 2 race-based units in a faction isn't good. BTW that's also my ideas for revised line-ups for Heroes 6:
Haven- unchanged
Necropolis- model change to Vampire, to make it look less like Arthas from Warcraft (and also allow the return of Dread Knights- otherwise they would look too simialr to the current Vampires. Model change for Liches as well.
Sanctuary:
Core: Kappa, Wanimaze, Coral Maiden/Medusa (rename, and also should be given a petrifying melee attack that turns the enemy into coral)
Elite: Mermaid/Siren (replaces the boring Spring Spirit which should just stay Water Elemental), Frost Lady/Yuki Onna (rename), Kenshi/Kensai
Champion: Lung/Sacred Lung (should fly, and also get its proper name- it's a Lung, Chinese for Dragon, not a Kirin which looks more like a stag!)
Stronghold:
Core: unchanged
Elite: Centaur, Dreamwalker, Ogre/Ogre Warlord (replaces Panther Warrior)
Champion: unchanged
Light Elemental re-model (model recycle is REALLY snow)
ALSO I think the expansion should add 1 extra creature per town to each faction + alternate reputation-based upgrades (make the upgrades somehow reputation-dependant, like offensive/defensive versions of each creature but sometimes just differetnt tactically).
And that's all for now!
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 20, 2012 10:31 AM |
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A theme I'm fine with, but most of the H3 factions represented environments, or at least a bunch of creatures and races that dwelt therein, I mean Stronghold seemed to have 4 races that might have been intelligent, as did Dungeon, and Tower got 5, and Inferno 6 (maybe). The Preserve in H4 was okay, a load of different beasts, but with the elves firmly in the driving-seat despite only having a single unit.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted April 20, 2012 11:10 AM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 11:12, 20 Apr 2012.
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I dunno, I was able to derive multiple attributes from studying the various factions.
Back when we didn't have those stupid 'core philosophies',
things were done with a little more subtetly, methinks.
Dungeon themes: Wealth, power and scheming
Fortress: Wildness, survival and cunning
Stronghold themes: Might, independency and savagery
Tower themes: Magic, knowledge and arcane science
All the faction creatures I could see belonging where they are due to being attracted to,
subjugated by, or harboring one or multiple attributes within their respective factions.
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moonshade
Known Hero
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posted April 24, 2012 01:09 AM |
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Academy
* Academy (will be edited and completed of-course):
Academy
Aka: The Wizards, the Seven Cities, the Hated Masters (by the Orcs and Beastmen)
“Only the wise may walk the path of the Immortals"
A coalition of seven allied human cities, each centered around one or two great school of Alchemy or Wizardry, ruled as a magocracy (control is given to the most magically knowledgable/powerful) by the enigmatic Council of Wisemen- whose members are rumored to be unnaturally old, if not immortal.
While normally thriving on trade with the nearby Falcon Empire and the Naga beyond the Jade Sea (mainly in magical knowledge, exotic spell components, minor artifacts and new technologies), in war-times the Cities can field a terrifying army made mainly of Demonic hybrids, Beastmen, magical beasts and constructs. While directly controlling a relatively small area with few people, their interference had often turned the tide during previous wars with the Demons of Sheogh- a fact they never let their war-time allies, the Holy Empire and Elves, forget.
* The humans of the Seven Cities are a different culture from that of the Falcon Empire. They value logic and the cold pursuit of knowledge above all else, including morality. While haughty and sometimes disconnected from reality, they are utterly commited to the preservance of Ashan. Other less "enlightened" humans, members of various desert tribes, are often allied to the Wizards out of awe or deceit and are nearly always treated as inferiors. Many times, these inferior, non-magical humans serve as test subjects and fodder for amoral experiments such as those that led to the Orcs' creation.
* Gremlins are a magically-created off-shoot race of Goblins who had lost their Demonic rage- replacing it with an obsession towards and keen understanding of everything mechanical. While nominally slaves, they are relatively well-treated due to their skills at maintaing the Wizards' fleet of machines. Few Gremlins have actually earned their place- and freedom- as aspiring Alchemists, though they are rare.
* Katta are agile and inquistive Beastmen, originally created from slaves magically fused with the essence of (great) cats. Their relatively high intelligence allowed them to climb to the position of overseers over the other Beastmen races, and due to this they were one of the few Beastmen species who didn't rebel. Yet the argument runs to this day- is it better to serve in a Silvered cage, or run free- and poor, hunted by possessive masters- in the harsh wild?
* The Djinn are an immortal, mystical race of spirits from the dream- realm of Asha, highly powerful in everything Arcane. An ancient and eleborate pact had bound them to the Wizards' service since the time of the Seventh Dragon. Though bound by its conduct at at the same time they pursue their own goal- taking vengeance on the Efreet, a faction of Djinn who long ago broke the pact- and found "freedom" in the embrace of Urgash's Chaotic corruption.
Long years had passed since the last major Demonic incursion. Now focused on the pursuit of knowledge, the Wizards are ignoring a pressing threat growing in their midst. The fact many of them reach a position of relative knowledge and power at an old age, spending their entire lives cloistered in the academy's walls, led many of them to seek immortality in the seductive whispers of Asha's entropic aspect as the Spider Mother... As they've already animated the immaterial and mutate living beings to their whims- what's morally wrong of them to seek Immortality through control over the bodies and souls of the Dead? It is said even a few of the ruling Wisemen have joined the rising Necromancer Cult- and conflict between the traditionalists and Asha-worshippers is inevitable...
Wizards regard connection with the outside world as a necessary evil, looking down on its denizns as uncivilized and uneducated barbarians. While a cloistered life of study is the ideal, all too often war and conflict spill over the walls of the Academy and cannot be ignored. In addition, due to living in a relatively resource-poor and small Kingdom, fetching for spell components and Arcane texts in the Outside through trade or campaigns of conquest and looting- is necessary.
Wizard armies are highly trained and armed with the most advanced technologies and powerful- though they often test these technologies on the slave-races before passing them on the humans. They are masters of ranged combat, and while mages usually possess little to no armor- as it interferes with their spellcasting which often requires unhindered movement- their construct minions are made of tough materials such as clay, shifting sands and spell-forged steel.
Wizards pride themselves on their mastery of all arts of magic, especially that of Air, Dark, Light and Prime, as well as combat alchemy and Enchantment- the ability to enchance their spells in various ways and change their properties.
Country / kingdom:
The Seven Cities
Capital city:
Each city is independant considered its own capital, with presidency of the alliance shifting once every 49 years. The current capital lies at Al-Mahrif, the City of the Learned.
Worship
Religion amongst Wizards is a complex matter. While originally worshippers of Asha, tracing their origin to Sar-Elam and his disciples, during the years they had abandoned Dragon-worship in the belief knowledge could elevate them to immortality and eventual Dragonhood. Due to the fact most of them die as old men before reaching this goal, in recent time there has been a return to Asha worship through its entropic aspect of the Spider Mother.
The recent events
The main conflict of the Wizards in recent times is the inner one with the Necromancers, which seems to be escalating every day. At least two of the Cities are dominated by the Death-cult, and some whisper they plan to poison the waters of Rabia Al-Mal- the main Oasis which feeds the water demands of all the cities- with Spider-venom and transform all the populace into the Undead.
Wizards look upon the humans of the Empire as violent and bigoted savages who hide behind the pretense of morality and have no value for proper education and learning. Indeed, in the past there have been clases with overly-zealous crusaders trying to convert the Cities' populace into their brand of Elrath-worship. Yet, they cannot but value their strong connection to Light magic, much stronger than their own- which had often turned the tide in fights with Demons and the Undead. Some even raised the blasphemous thought they should ally with them in the upcoming civil war with the Necromancers- even at the cost of letting the barbarous Inquistion into the Seven Cities!
Asha's Necromancers are hated enemies and rivals for hegemony of the Seven Cities. Necromancy is viewed as unnatural and forbidden magic, as the interference with dead souls is said to violate the very fabric of the world- and inevitably corrupts the caster's own. Yet, some of the Cities have partially or fully embraced the Path of Grey- and a cold war is quickly escalating into an active military conflict.
Demons are curious beings. While obviously a threat to Ashan's very existence, their study can offer immense power to those who could distance themselves from corruption- much more easier said than done. Some Wizards' secretly dream of subjucating Urgash' hordes to their will- though most who tried walk the Demonic path have died screaming in fire and terrible pain. Due to this, Demonology- like Necromancy- is illegal in most Seven Cities.
The Orcs are ungrateful, stupid slaves who should be made to recognize their rightful masters once more. Until now all incursions into the Pao Islands to re-subjucate the Orcs have not returned- but to be honest it had never been on the top of the Wizards' priorities and some even whisper they should just let go of their pride- and focus on the real threat posed by the Necromancers.
The Wild Ones are viewed similarly to the Orcs, as unruly slaves who should be re-captured and tamed- but their more pragmatic and magic-tolerant nature had led to the emergence of some unofficial trade centered around alchemical components.
The Naga are wise and highly-appreciated beings who have long been allies of the Wizards, who even created an entire Beastmen race- the Wanimaze- as a gift to their aquatic friends.
The Wood Elves of Irollan are respected as old and wise beings and at the same time envived for their immortality. They usually maintain friendly relations with the Wizards, but the occasional conflict does break from time to time due to the Wizards' repeated violations of "Natural Harmony"- one of the most important values in Elven society which the Wizards just scoff upon.
The Facelss and their monstrous hordes, similarly to the Demons, offer a dangerous alternative source of power- especially as they too are creators of beings, often superior to the Wizards' own. Most Wizards who study the Dark Arts go mad or disappear into the night- though some whisper they join the ranks of the Warlocks, the power-hungry sorcerers of the Underworld. Dungeon and Academy forces often clash in the pursuit of spell components, magical knowledge and artifacts- they are viewed as competition on the path to ultimate understanding.
Academy warfare: "Don't let them go near us!"
Most Academy troops are relatively slow or physically vulnerable- making them inferior to other armies in melee combat. They rely on their two powerful shooting units (Gremlin and Mage) to destroy enemies at a distance, supporting their already-formidable ranged offense with spells and war machines. However, they are actually far from worthless in melee- as they possess two powerful tanks in the Clay Golem and Hollow, and highly-mobile skirmishers in the Katta and Roc- providing the cover for their ranged offense to finish the job. Their Champion- the Djinn- is one of the most versatile units in the game as a flying spellcaster, its only weaknsss being a weak defense, low HP- and high price. Indeed, the major problem for the otherwise powerful Academy troops is their high prices- an Academy without a strong economy simply cannot field a proper army. Also, they suffer from low growth rates- so every loss counts!
Still, their combination of mighty troops and powerful magic makes Academy one of the strongest factions in the game, combat-wise. While they might be inferior to the Dungeon in damage spells and melee power, they more than make up with their powerful ranged offense and higher magical versability.
* Military strengths:
Powerful troops, ranged offense, magical resistances and immunities, powerful and versatile magic
* Military weaknesses:
Expensive troops, low growth rates, vulnerable shooters, many slow units, spell-point dependancy
Enchantment- fills up when spells of any kind are used by your Hero or units, or when they use Active abilities granted by Artifacts. Allows to apply (at the cost of additional spell points) various Enchantments to a spell such as longer duration, Dispel immunity, changing Elemental damage type and more. Higher levels allow you to add more and better Enchantments to a spell. Note that the ability to increase a spell's damage is reserved to the Warlocks' Dark Arts racial skill- Enchantment deals with all the rest.
Core:
Gremlin / Gremlin Machinist
Katta / Katta Seer
Clay Golem / Crystal Golem
Elite:
Mage / Arch Mage
Roc / Garuda (gigantic, enchanted birds native to the Desrt's highest cliffs)
Hollow / Immortal (immaterial arcane spirits animating enchanted suits of armor and wielding giant blades)
Champion:
Djinn / Djinn Vizier
Heroes:
Might Neutral: Alchemist
Might Tears: Artificer
Might Blood: Demolisher
Magic Neutral: Wizard
Magic Tears: Concilor
Magic Blood: Transmutator
Titan would be Boss of-course, being the ultimate construct made by the Wizards. Champion/7th levl Titans in Heroes 5 could be just the mass-produced, lower-quality "copies" the original Titan.
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moonshade
Known Hero
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posted April 25, 2012 08:56 PM |
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What?
What nobody likes me anymore? Why no responses?
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted April 25, 2012 09:15 PM |
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Katta sounds a little odd for me since it more or less translates to 'the cat' in Norwegian.
I'm also not too sure if I like the Hollow/Immortals.
Their names are very generic as far as creature names go and very unmythological
(more fantasy than mythology that is).
But the rest looks good. Nice job with the lore.
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moonshade
Known Hero
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posted April 26, 2012 11:31 AM |
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Additional Changes
Here are some other changes I would like to add in Expansion, many of them taken from the genius HOMM 3 add-on Wake of Gods. Note that stuff like Recruitable Bosses and Creature Experience can be switched on/off before starting a map.
I opt for 2 Expansions:
Twilight of the Elves: Introducing Dungeon and Sylvan.
Staff and Claw: Introducing Academy and Fortress.
The rest of the changes should be equally spread between the 2 Expansion- but I think some of them should also be offered online in Free Patches to vanilla HOMM 6 owners.
* Recruitable Bosses: Once a Tear of Asha is built, the Player can recruit a single Boss unit into his ranks (at a hefty resource cost), as a 9th unit (in addition to the 7 regular ones and the Captain- but more on that later). They make the end-game much more interesting, IMHO, as super-weapons.
The Bosses are:
Haven- Archangel (uses Michael model)
Necropolis- Namtaru
Inferno- Archdevil (uses Ahbribban model)
Stronghold- Behemoth
Sanctuary- Lung (uses Dragon Eel model)
Fortress- Rust Dragon
Sylvan- Emerald Dragon
Dungeon- Black Dragon (uses Daughter of Malassa model)
Academy- Titan
* Blood/Tears Evolution and Alternate Upgrades- Secondary Heroes can also gain Blood/Tears points, alebit at a slower rate. Also, the mechanic of Fame/Infamy- a Kingdom-related reputation is introduced. Whenever your Heroes perform Blood/Tears-points granting actions, their level of Fame/Infamy rises. A minimum level is required for building a creature upgrade building- thus making the player's choice of Blood/Tears affect also his creature selection. Usually the choice of alternate upgrades is between offensive and defensive, but this is not always the case- and some upgrades completely change the playstyle of the original unit! Your Fame/Infamy will also affect the chances of certain creatures joining your Army.
Creature Experience- Like in WoG. More experienced creatures are simply much tougher physically and maybe have their special abilities working better (like better chances, extra uses etc.)- the gaining of new Special abilities is limited to upgrades.
Extra Creatures: Every faction gets an extra Core, Elite and Champion-tier creature.
These would be (according to tiers):
Haven- Peasant, Witch Hunter, Crusader
Necropolis- Crypt Spider, Mummy, Bone Shifter
Inferno- Gargoyle, Nightmare, Efreet
Stronghold- (Goblin) Wildcat Rider, Frenzied Gnasher, Rainbow Serpent
* Also, I opt for the replacement of the Panther Warrior with the Ogre, a more defensive unit (as the Gnasher is an ultra-offensive unit, gaining Rage at the fastest rate in the game).
Sanctuary- Cloud Ray, Ninja, Kraken
* I suggest for the unification of the Spring Spirit and the Snow Maiden into a single unit with an added model and ability change- making the Yuki Onna the Spring Spirit's Blood upgrade. Instead, the Mermaid should be added as an Elite unit.
Fortress: Wisp, Swamp Hulk, Wyvern
Sylvan: Gnome, Dendroid, Phoenix
Dungeon: Foul Wyrm, Devourer, Mind Reaver
Academy: Clockwork Raptor, Yaksha, Dragon Gun
* Diplomacy- A mechanic used only with AI players. You may now suggest an Alliance with an enemy player- with the chances of him agreeing depend on the number of Heroes with Diplomacy skill in your army. The ally will act intelligent- asking for resources, mine-swapping etc.- but can break the Alliance in any moment- though the chances decrease the more powerful you are/the more Heroes with Diplomacy you have. In additon, you can build an Embassy in your town- allowing you to recruit 3 random creatures (Core Elite and Champion) from your ally's faction and combine them in your army without a morale loss as long as the alliance is valid.
* Captains- The return of Commanders from WoG. Special creatures which can attack and be attacked, gain experience and special abilities much like the Hero (though much more individualized than the WoG Commanders) and are like a Combination between heroes and creatures. The Captain can offset your Hero's weak points- like a strong fighting captain for a Magic hero and a spellcasting Captain for a Magic hero. The loss of a Captain inflicts a hefty morale/stat loss (in Necropolis' case) to your units for the remainder of the battle- although they can be resurrected after in town.
List of Captains:
Haven- Centurion
Necropolis- Wraith
Inferno- Familiar
Stronghold- Warlord
Sanctuary- Princess
Fortress- Loa Aspect (a powerful god/spirit from Voodoo mythology)
Sylvan- Cernunos (a horned stag god from Celtic myth)
Dungeon- Overseer (riding a Drake)
Academy- Hanuman (a monkey-god from Hindu/SE Asian myth)
That's all for now. Any ideas/comments?
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted April 28, 2012 07:40 AM |
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Quote:
Katta sounds a little odd for me since it more or less translates to 'the cat' in Norwegian.
It sounds as odd to me, being this animal:
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moonshade
Known Hero
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posted April 28, 2012 09:37 AM |
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Hmmm...
Didn't know... What do you suggest for a rename (as Catfolk or something similar is waaaay too generic)? Maybe make them Raksasha and make them Demonic rather than Beastman in origin, or just leave the Raksasha name as the Wizard (Hindu) term for Demons?
Also- what do you think about my newly-added Dungeon?
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted April 30, 2012 09:28 AM |
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Ah, so that's what they shall be. hmmm. Something relating to "Felidae" maybe?
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gmecow
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 04, 2012 08:40 AM |
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Thats really suprb game to play...if you know all the codes used by him during play that game.
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