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Holger
Adventuring Hero
King of Silence
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posted March 10, 2002 01:51 PM |
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Prediction: Changes in gameplay in H4?
There seem to be some very big changes in the game play in the upcoming Heroes 4. The economy will be slowed down significantly compared to Heroes 3 - and get closer to the good old Heroes 2 days. But maybe the whole time dimension will be changed: In the preview done by Daily Telefrag two weeks ago we learned that with the new concept of wandering monsters instead of guarding made the play tester spend three days(!) with his main hero to catch a couple of Behemoths running around in the neighbourhood of his castle.
With much more time spend running around doing almost nothing - turns will go quicker and games take more days; making it less important that it takes more time to generate the money to buy creatures, because your main army will not speeding off in one direction.
Another important change of gameplay is the disability to make hero chains, hence it will be the movement points of creatures that restricts the logistics of an army and not movement points of the hero.
Therefore I predict that we will see an increase in the number of armies in H4 and therefore a decrease in army sizes - and these changes will demand the development of more heroes....
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hobgoblin
Known Hero
captain hobgoblin
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posted March 12, 2002 05:34 PM |
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It's difficult to imagine
Even with numbers, I would not be able to say if the economy is slowed or not, I must play to know, because the way of recruitement is too different from this of heroes 3. You say that turns will be faster and that you'll need more time to recruit, but one of the question is: with no only your town and no additionnal gains, will you be able to recruit all that you have to recruit, and one day, to have nomore creatures to recruit? But I think you won't, so will you be able to recruit more, in proportion, than in heroes 3?
LOL for the chains of heroes. It had always made me lough. Your hero was able to walk a certain distance each day, but your creatures were able to walk eight times this distance, (you could have eight heroes). Either your hero was tired after 2 hours, but your creatures were not and could continue with another hero, or your hero stopped walking at the end of the day, then gave the creatures to another hero, and the time went back, and it was the beginning of the day and your creatures could walk again!
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Take me down to a pardise city where the girls are green and the grass is pretty
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thorman
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 12, 2002 11:49 PM |
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Also mana regen seems to be different.Spending one night in your castle with a mage guild 1 wont regen 100% of your mana.In fact,you'll get only 20% back.
Mage guild 1=20%
Mage guild 2=25%
Mage guild 3=35%
Mage guild 4=50%
Mage guild 5=100%
Dunno if wells will work like H3,but to regen mana will be at least a bit tougher.To cast lvl5 spells wont be easy,to build a lvl5 mage guild might not worth it for a while.
I hope we wont spend weeks running after creatures.Will be tough to catch angels(or any lvl4 unit),but it will also be tough to escape from them.
How many peeps used a lvl1 hero with one creature to explore,doing slalom beetwen creatures on map? Wont be that easy in H4,if a stack of creature thinks he can beat your party,they can attack you! Im sure we'll all live some funny things when H4 comes out.
Also fog of war will cause some surprises to people adventuring their heroes too far."oops,didnt see that guy coming".
No more town portal,dimension door.Crossing maps in 2-3 turns will be very tough(hate to use the word "impossible).
More strategy will be needed to protect your land.In H3,a hero with expert town portal could protect a XL map on his own.Waiting till the ennemy gets under one turn of one of his castle,town portal to that castle,wack him and town portal back to last captured castle to keep exploring.Cant do that in H4,better use your head to keep your land safe while beating on your ennemies.
I think its all great changes,more challenging.
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Syllogism
Adventuring Hero
Gazebo Slayer
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posted March 13, 2002 07:06 PM |
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Quote:
No more town portal,dimension door.Crossing maps in 2-3 turns will be very tough(hate to use the word "impossible).
Town Gate, Order level 3
Transports the caster and army to the nearest Town
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RobinHood
Known Hero
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posted March 13, 2002 07:18 PM |
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For me, 3 big changes in heroes 4 will be : fog of war (agree with Thorman about what he said), simultaneous retaliation and the troops without hero.
I don’t think the fact that heroes can fight in battles will change something. Above all, it’s for the fun !A barbarian will fight like any other unit, and a spellcaster will mostly cast spells (logical isn’t it...). The only usefull improvement is that you can have many spellcaster on the battleground.
Simultaneous retaliation = no more battles without loosing any units (you MUST loose units if you need to kill a pack of shooters and you do not have level 4 units) = you must return frequently to your castle in order to recruit if you want to stay strong enough. Damn !
It's more reallistic, but I'm a fan of "perfect battles" in Heroes 3. It will miss me.
The troops without hero will be essential in the beginning of party, when you don't have the means to buy a hero or when there is a lot of investigation on the adventure map. You buy two or three creatures (fast if possible) and they investigate alone the map, revealing the position of mines and artefacts to be pitched first. They would certainly have a short life, but war is war (I think about wandering creatures) and creatures level one don’t cost a lot.
They can also indicate enemies' presence in strategic points of the card, collect resources (that makes spare time to the heroes), And maybe even go to windmills or dwellings.
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It is the province of knowledge to speak & it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted March 13, 2002 07:19 PM |
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huge difference
Nearest town, not any town... totally different. More like town portal with no, or only basic earth magic- almost useless, but not totally.
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thorman
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 13, 2002 08:19 PM |
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Hehe yeah,i forgot to specify i was refering to the "town portal" of H3,described under.But hey town gate and town portal is very different 
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Syllogism
Adventuring Hero
Gazebo Slayer
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posted March 13, 2002 08:23 PM |
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Quote:
Nearest town, not any town... totally different. More like town portal with no, or only basic earth magic- almost useless, but not totally.
Almost useless? You've got to be kidding.
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thorman
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 13, 2002 08:41 PM |
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Wont be useless,but wont be close to be as good than it was in H3.And now you need order to cast it,tougher to get.
Still a great spell.
The difference between both has its place in this thread tho,cuz it will really change the gameplay of everyone.
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted March 13, 2002 09:27 PM |
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tactical advantage slight
If you can only teleport to the nearest town, it isn't that great a spell- especially given the profusion of towns in Heroes games. It won't be totally useless as you can leave town, fight a battle and teleport back if you are in new territory say, but not much good other than that unless you need to defend your town and aren't to close to another town that doesn't need to be defended. It can be hard to tell many times which town you are closer to- if the spell doesn't specify which town you could teleport and end in the wrong town; especially if there is an under level towns involved.
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ThE_HyDrA
Admirable
Famous Hero
The Leader of all Hydras
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posted March 14, 2002 07:45 AM |
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Gameplay Changes? It is vital to have success....
Well, one thing can be certain in this thread. Veteran Heroes players like myself, and many others around the community are going to have to change their Heroes II and III strategies if they're to have success while playing Heroes IV
I mean success in two aspects.
1. Success as in winning the game, and using an efficient strategy to conquer opponents.
2. Success as having fun with the game. Its no use using Heroes III strategies the whole time when one realises they aren't going to be effective, and therefore, enjoyment levels wouldn't be as high.
Now, I'd just like to elaborate on my opinions for the first point I made. While Heroes IV has shifted economically towards Heroes II, that doesn't necessarily mean that the whole game will be reminiscent of Heroes II. Because it isn't. Heroes IV is much more diverse, and Heroes II was relatively simple regarding strategies.
They were basically as follows:
1. Buy creatures
2. Build army
3. Develop a strong hero
4. Buy upgrades
5. Buy money boosters
6. Flag mines
7. Conquer enemy
That was Heroes II in a nutshell. Although that wasn't the result of having this. I can honestly say that all these attributes wne very well together to create an enjoyable game.
Heroes III devloped more strategy, such as Grails, more money, different bonuses.
I believe that Heroes IV has taken aspects from both versions, and obviously, with the enhanced graphics, made the best out of them.
Heroes IV also has other bonuses, too. Some that will to a certain extent alter the style of gameplay. I don't think it is so much the old aspects of Heroes IV, but rather the newer ones.
Some changes like the Advanced Hero classes which bonuses' have been cracked and posted by Syllogism. This is a great change, as the advanced skills the hero has decided to learn actually has an outcome or result in the game.
The new skills system, adding Grand Master and Master to the array already. This will make developing skill processes longer.
The different level choices for creartures will surely play a prominent role in strategy planning.
What we can take from this is that in Heroes IV, the whole Kingdom is going to take longer to develop into the same position as it would be projected to be in Heroes III.
But the gameplay change I enjoy the most is the Caravan feature, which I find hard to believe hasn't been mentioned in the above posts. This will actually work in similar ways to town portal.
It will transport creatures towards their destination, without being noticed. Although it certainly won't take one turn to accomplish this.
I will be posting a thread about 'Strategic Gameplay' in the near future, so just watch out for that. 
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"Dragons may breathe fire, but Hydras have many heads." - The Creed of Hydras
"As the Dragon drew its breath, the Hydra pounced, swiftly but powerfully, and the Dragon was defeated.”
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted March 14, 2002 05:56 PM |
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caravans
To me it seems the caravan feature will work as it did in Warlords game series- if your town is captured either the units appear on map or more liekly they appear in the towns from which they were being sent.
It takes a few turns for the carvan to work so it isn't at all like town portal. The only advantage to caravan is that enemy heroes on adventure map can't encounter tham and bribe them or swy them into their own ranks, or random neutral monsters attack them. Also keeping your # of armeis moving around down so you can have more scouts etc since only 8 armies roaming free allowed just like in H3.
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted March 14, 2002 05:59 PM |
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one more word on caravan
I forgot to mention that as much an advantage as sending armies to a town your opponent can't see them(which is smaller with FoW anyway) you lose flexability in redeploying them if you spot a new threat. The time they are in transit you don't have access to them. I might still send overland preferring the flexabity.
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jondifool
Promising
Adventuring Hero
extinct but alive!
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posted March 15, 2002 12:37 AM |
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I read that stacks can carry artifacts, so the caravan would be use to transfer artifacts to , if needed.
Jondifool
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth.
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The Oxe is slow, but earth have patience
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