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| Thread: My Heroestopia (a.k.a. my vision of the perfect HOMM) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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nessich
Hired Hero
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posted January 04, 2013 06:01 AM |
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Edited by nessich at 04:55, 14 Jan 2013.
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My Heroestopia (a.k.a. my vision of the perfect HOMM)
Quick info: Basically there are 4 tiers. You get to choose 3/5 core, 2/3 elite, 1/3 paragon and 1/2 champion units. There are 2 upgrades per unit. I'm not sure about the names of the ones in blue.
HAVEN (Medieval-themed)
CORE:
Peasant » Conscript | Militia
Archer » Arbalist | Longbowman
Sister » Vestal | Abbess
Bandit » Brigand | Rogue
Falconer » Austringer | Falcon Master
ELITE:
Spearman » Halberdier | Pikeman
Radiant Glory » Blazing Glory | Scorching Triumph
Stone Thrower » Catapult | Trebuchet (?)
PARAGON:
Monk » Inquisitor | Zealot
Crusader » Hospitaller | Templar
Griffin » Sacred Griffin | Ironclad Griffin
CHAMPION:
Paladin » Stellar Knight | Champion of the Light
Angel » Archangel | Seraphim
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INFERNO (Demons)
CORE:
Imp » Familiar | Hellion
Gog » Magog | Pyromancer
Demon » Horned Demon | Horned Grunt
Lava Worm » Abyssal Worm | Infernal Centipede
Hell Hound » Cerberus | Firefang
ELITE:
Succubus » Maiden of Pain | Lilith
Hell Charger » Torrid Stallion | Nightmare
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PARAGON:
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Efreet » Efreet Sultan | Efreet Czar
Breeder » Burning Matriarch | Brood Queen
CHAMPION:
Devil » Arch Devil | King of Pain
Pit Fiend » Pit Lord | Pit King
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NECROPOLIS (Undead)
CORE:
Skeleton » Skeletal Warrior | Skeletal Archer
Zombie » Festering Ghoul | Forsaken
Evil Spirit » Spectre | Poltergeist
Bone Spider » Tainted Arachnid | Black Widow
Gargoyle » Obsidian Gargoyle | Stygian Gargoyle
ELITE:
Vampire » Vampire Lord |
Lamasu » Putrid Lamasu |
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PARAGON:
Lich » Archlich | Skeletal Magus
Revenant » Shadow Fiend | Risen Warlord
Wight » Wraith | Banshee/Grim Reaper
CHAMPION:
Bone Dragon » Spectral Dragon | Dracolich
Dread Knight » Pestilent Horseman |
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STRONGHOLD (Orcs)
CORE:
Goblin » Hobgoblin |
[url=http://i.imgur.com/WgTWU.jpg] [/url]
Boar » Warthog | Blood-tusk
[url=http://i.imgur.com/JGHno.jpg] [/url]
Harpy » Harpy Hag | Fury
[url=http://i.imgur.com/YIOpl.jpg] [/url]
Cat Warrior » Jaguar Warrior | Panther Warrior
---
ELITE:
Centaur » Centaur Nomad | Centaur Marauder
Shaman » Dreamwalker | Witch Doctor
Wolf Rider » Dire Wolf Rider | Timber Wolf Rider
[url=http://i.imgur.com/weFcG.jpg] [/url]
PARAGON:
Ogre » Ogre Mauler | Ogre Crusher
[url=http://i.imgur.com/VKmGk.jpg] [/url]
Roc » Thunderbird | Garuda
Troll » Mountain Troll | Cave Troll
[url=http://i.imgur.com/EsCf7.jpg] [/url]
CHAMPION:
Behemoth » Ancient Behemoth | Primeval Giant
Cyclops » Enraged Cyclops |
___________________________________________________________________
ACADEMY (Desert, Magic-oriented)
CORE:
Gremlin » Master Gremlin | Gremlin Saboteur
Magical Essence » Ethereal Essence | Enigma
Mummy » Royal Mummy |
---
---
ELITE:
Stone Golem » Gold Golem | Crystal Golem
Mage » Arcane Mage |
Sand Maggot » Dune Worm | Spiked Devourer
PARAGON:
Djinn » Djinn Vizier | Master Djinn
Rakshasa Rani » Rakshasa Raja | Rakshasa Kshatra
Scorpion Rider » Sand King |
CHAMPION:
Giant » Titan | Storm Colossus
Firebird » Phoenix | Fenghuang (?)
___________________________________________________________________
FORTRESS (Swamp, Lizardmen+allies)
CORE:
Gnoll » |
Lizardman » Lizardman Hunter |
Serpent Fly » Dragon Fly |
---
---
ELITE:
Basilisk » |
Crane » Stymphalian Crane |
Swamp Elder » Mire Sorcerer |
PARAGON:
Gorgon » |
Wyvern Rider » Spined Wyvern Rider | Ironhide Wyvern Rider
Bog Giant » Bog Guardian | Bog Lord
CHAMPION:
Hydra » Primordial Hydra | Acidic Hydra
---
Still WIP (though suggestions are welcome)
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted January 05, 2013 01:46 AM |
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I'm not sure about this. Sure it looks nice, but you now need 13 creatures (and 39 upgrades, total of 52 units) per faction, surely that's going to hurt uniqueness.
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nessich
Hired Hero
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posted January 05, 2013 01:56 AM |
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Edited by nessich at 02:06, 05 Jan 2013.
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Well, I like variety and having lots to choose from. And I disagree - IMO it will bring more uniqueness to the game, because this way you won't get bored easily with one faction as you'll have many alternatives to pick from. I may have gone over the top a bit I admit, but you know what they say "The more the merrier". 
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted January 05, 2013 02:34 AM |
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But you still have to make each unit unique, hard enough at the base level, I'd have though near impossible at the upgraded one, I mean what is the difference between a Vestal, a Priestess and an Abbess?
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nessich
Hired Hero
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posted January 05, 2013 03:10 AM |
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I still haven't thoroughly distinguished each upgrade by enlisting their abilities (both passive and active), but for vestal I was thinking about having a passive ability called sacred fire which would give nearby units protection from fire. Priestesses would cast bless, heal and prayer, while abbesses' special would be mass mirth(morale boost) or something like that.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted January 06, 2013 12:54 PM |
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Another one =)
Hard to comment yet.I personally like having not too few creatures. But 13 seems a bit much indeed, and upgrades. Yet, sicne there is choice, I personally am more drawn to it right now. 
Quote:
You get to choose 3/5 core, 2/3 elite, 1/3 paragon and 1/2 champion units.
Freely or in some kind of "bunches"? For example can you jsut choose any 3 of the 5 cores or can you for exampl choose 1 of the following "branches":
"Cityfolk" => Archer, Sister & Bandit
"Landfolk" => Peasant, Bandit & Falconer
and so on. YOu get the idea I think.
For the creatures themselves...well, again, more info definitely needed before judgement is possible.
Some first impressions:
Assassin allways reminds me of something strong, cunning, stealthful - much mroe than an ordinary "killer" and thus assassin beign bandit upgrade is nto my taste.
Gyrfalconer - what shall that be? falcon Master would go in hHoMM tradition somehow Genrally, how about a "Hawker" or "hawkyer" or such as falcoenr upgrade?
I woudl DEFINITELY switch Pikeman and Spearman! More logical since a Pike is a special type of spear, as areajavelin and a halberd, which both are NOT pikes...as far as I know, I#m no native speaker^^ if that is done, I think javelineer is quite fitting.
I hope the glory is not too much H6...
...Witchs and Sorceresses in Haven???
Swordsman seems ncie, wahts your issue with it?
...INFERNO with "no special theme"? Sounds illogical to me, sicne inferno has one of the most special themes - demons. Or waht exactly do you mean?
Vermin is okay, imo. Alternates could be Foul Imp or Nuisance, maybe.
THe demons...harde to say which fits, since I do not know which creature they shall be.
...a Worm upgrading into a centipede leaves a bitter taste in me, having baascial biological knowledge. And Entozoon is simply not logical, since this is something INSIDE (ento=inside) something, inside an animal, I'd say...
Cursed Canine sounds...weird. perhaps Haunting or Hunting Hound or "Mestiph" (being an allusion to both Mastif and Mephisto...
The Breeder again :/
ANTICHRIST? Sorry, but that, for me, is not good in taste, unless you place your HoMM on Earth. CHRIST is too earthly... Maybe Anti-Messiah or Dark Messiah?
So far, so good, waiting for more, since this is qutie good.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted January 06, 2013 08:12 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 08:24, 07 Jan 2013.
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...a Worm upgrading into a centipede leaves a bitter taste in me, having baascial biological knowledge. And Entozoon is simply not logical, since this is something INSIDE (ento=inside) something, inside an animal, I'd say...
Since H3 the Hellhound (1 head) has upgraded to the Cerberus (3 heads), and this is in any case a magical land.
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ANTICHRIST? Sorry, but that, for me, is not good in taste, unless you place your HoMM on Earth.
Ashan has an Archangel called Michael and you object to calling something an antichrist on the grounds that it's too 'earthly'?
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BlueLore
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 06, 2013 08:29 PM |
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13 units is already quite much,but I think it is handable,but 3 upgrades for every unit seems a bit much 2 are more than enough,and I don't see much reason behind the paragon tier,I mean it looks like a lesser champion class since you are able to choose only one,which makes it kinda....unimpressive in my opinion,it makes them appear kinda superior on the one hand,but on the other hand they still don't have the same feel as a champion,as they aren't the strongest unit of the faction.
The lineups of the factions look ok,but sorcress/witch for heaven looks really a bit out.
Also I think demon is a pretty lame name for a creatue,it would be like naming a creature human or something like that,because after all every unit in the inferno faction is a demon(or at least most of them)
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted January 06, 2013 08:40 PM |
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less is more, in any game.
basically you slapped together all units from all heroes games related to an alignment and called it cool.
If anything, H5 alternative upgrades thought us that there's just so many units / upgrades you can put in a game before saturation. Most of the alternative upgrades there were useless compared to their counterparts.
You want to add 3 upgrades? What for? You like optimizing between +1 attack -1 defense units?
It really doesn't matter if Haven has swordmen, monks, sisters or whatever as a unit. The important thing is variety and a sense of a role in a unit.
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nessich
Hired Hero
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posted January 06, 2013 08:42 PM |
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Edited by nessich at 21:11, 06 Jan 2013.
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Quote:
Another one =)
Haha yes.
Quote:
Freely or in some kind of "bunches"? For example can you jsut choose any 3 of the 5 cores or can you for exampl choose 1 of the following "branches":
"Cityfolk" => Archer, Sister & Bandit
"Landfolk" => Peasant, Bandit & Falconer
and so on. YOu get the idea I think.
For the creatures themselves...well, again, more info definitely needed before judgement is possible.
Freely of course. Only in campaigns would there be more limitations.
Quote:
Assassin allways reminds me of something strong, cunning, stealthful - much mroe than an ordinary "killer" and thus assassin beign bandit upgrade is nto my taste.
It was logical for me to place assassin as bandit's upgrade, but if you have any better name suggestions for that upgrade I'll gladly change it.
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Gyrfalconer - what shall that be? falcon Master would go in hHoMM tradition somehow Genrally, how about a "Hawker" or "hawkyer" or such as falcoenr upgrade?
This is a fairly new unit... I've thought for a while whether to have only the bird since I wanted to have one beast in core. Although, having both bird and handler as the unit would bring more ability possibilities, so I chose that option. Upgrade names were rushed. Hawker seems like a nice idea instead of Gyrfalconer. I was also thinking of having a mechanical falcon in one of the upgrades but not sure how to name it (Falconer Engineer?).
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I hope the glory is not too much H6...
Well, it won't be as strong hence why it's an elite not paragon.
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...Witchs and Sorceresses in Haven???
I needed a magic-oriented unit and sorceress/witch was kinda the only thing that came to my mind. And it is the 3rd female unit (other two - sister and radiant glory).
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Swordsman seems ncie, wahts your issue with it?
Swordsman seems too common, too simple a name for a paragon unit. If I can't find a better-suiting name it will stay.
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...INFERNO with "no special theme"? Sounds illogical to me, sicne inferno has one of the most special themes - demons. Or waht exactly do you mean?
I meant that the units come from too many different mythologies, but yeah you're right it's a demon-faction. I'll rename that.
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Vermin is okay, imo. Alternates could be Foul Imp or Nuisance, maybe.
Hmmm... Vermin - check.
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...a Worm upgrading into a centipede leaves a bitter taste in me, having baascial biological knowledge. And Entozoon is simply not logical, since this is something INSIDE (ento=inside) something, inside an animal, I'd say...
Yeah, I know... :/ Still thinking of upgrades.
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Cursed Canine sounds...weird. perhaps Haunting or Hunting Hound or "Mestiph" (being an allusion to both Mastif and Mephisto...
Mestiph - love it, thanks!
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The Breeder again :/
Well, I'll see if I can tweak things around, coz IMO a large unit that spawns smaller units and shoots is a really cool idea.
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ANTICHRIST? Sorry, but that, for me, is not good in taste, unless you place your HoMM on Earth. CHRIST is too earthly... Maybe Anti-Messiah or Dark Messiah?
Dark Messiah hmmm... How about Stygian Messiah?
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13 units is already quite much,but I think it is handable,but 3 upgrades for every unit seems a bit much 2 are more than enough,and I don't see much reason behind the paragon tier,I mean it looks like a lesser champion class since you are able to choose only one,which makes it kinda....unimpressive in my opinion,it makes them appear kinda superior on the one hand,but on the other hand they still don't have the same feel as a champion,as they aren't the strongest unit of the faction.
Like I said I really like variety, having different options. At one moment I wanted to have one more upgrade instead of alternative upgrades (for instance, Peasant>Conscript>Militia), but I didn't like it because there wouldn't be any choice. I don't think 3 upgrades are too much. And about 4 different tiers/levels - why not?
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Also I think demon is a pretty lame name for a creatue,it would be like naming a creature human or something like that,because after all every unit in the inferno faction is a demon(or at least most of them)
Good point. I agree.
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less is more, in any game.
basically you slapped together all units from all heroes games related to an alignment and called it cool.
If anything, H5 alternative upgrades thought us that there's just so many units / upgrades you can put in a game before saturation. Most of the alternative upgrades there were useless compared to their counterparts.
You want to add 3 upgrades? What for? You like optimizing between +1 attack -1 defense units?
Well everyone is entitled to have a taste (I prefer more to less - to break the monotony a bit). And about the upgrades - they aren't thought meticulously yet, but I assure you they will be unique and have different roles in combat.
BTW thanks for all your suggestions.
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Vindicator
Supreme Hero
Right Back Extraordinaire
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posted January 06, 2013 09:28 PM |
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It was logical for me to place assassin as bandit's upgrade, but if you have any better name suggestions for that upgrade I'll gladly change it.
Outlaw, Thug, Rouge, and Brigand (my favorite) come to mind.
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Javelineer
Harpooner maybe?
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Swordsman » Crusader | Hospitaller | Templar
Maybe make Crusader unupgraded and call the Swordsman "Champion" instead?
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted January 06, 2013 11:28 PM |
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Ashan has an Archangel called Michael and you object to calling something an antichrist on the grounds that it's too 'earthly'?
Don't you know me, Matt? I HATE Ashan^^ And yes, to me, it's too earthly. But that's just my taste, and i know it^^
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Since H3 the Hellhound (1 head) has upgraded to the Cerberus (3 heads), and this is in any case a magical land.
Again, a matter of personal taste, probably, but to me, adding 2 heads seems - in a magical land - more reasonable than switching not jsut the species, but the CLASS of animals...
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less is more, in any game.
Simply have to disagree, but it would burst the thread starting that old argument again^^
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It was logical for me to place assassin as bandit's upgrade, but if you have any better name suggestions for that upgrade I'll gladly change it.
cutthroat?
For the mechanical falcon...not sure, both if it fits and how to name it...
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And it is the 3rd female unit (other two - sister and radiant glory).
That honestly is no point for me. Gender quotes in a game are not my taste, got enough of that in university, listening to some of my profs talking of how bad the treatment of women is, while I sit there as 1 of about 10 guys in a room full with 200 people - but that was offtopic, sorry^^
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Swordsman seems too common, too simple a name for a paragon unit. If I can't find a better-suiting name it will stay.
Honor Guard? Sworn Blade? Or make Crusader the unupgraded version and put sth liek Sword Master to Upgrade.
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Dark Messiah hmmm... How about Stygian Messiah?
Personally, I love it. But as oen can see above, my opinion is not allways with the masses
Overall, I wanted again to say I like the concept so far, and I also like how you response to comments to it
may we get a glimpse of what ypu plan to do further on (for example which factiosn will you come up with next?
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nessich
Hired Hero
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posted January 08, 2013 12:23 AM |
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Edited by nessich at 00:24, 08 Jan 2013.
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After long consideration, I decided to cut down one upgrade alternative... So, now there are 2 upgrades per unit (like in H5 ToE).
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Maybe make Crusader unupgraded and call the Swordsman "Champion" instead?
Yes, thanks.
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cutthroat?
Hahahah no... That reminds me of House M.D. (the series) - there was a character nicknamed cutthroat b****.
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Overall, I wanted again to say I like the concept so far, and I also like how you response to comments to it
may we get a glimpse of what ypu plan to do further on (for example which factiosn will you come up with next?
I'll post 2 more factions in my next update.
BTW thanks for the suggestions! I've changed the line-ups and removed the sorceress and juggernaut as you may notice. I've yet to find ideas which would replace them (I'm open to your ideas). 
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Vindicator
Supreme Hero
Right Back Extraordinaire
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posted January 08, 2013 04:38 AM |
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Perhaps a cavalry archer for Haven? Or a war machine of some sort?
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted January 08, 2013 12:03 PM |
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Wait, the Wolf Rider higher than the Boar or Troll? Just so you know, wolves generally top out at about 45kg, which is about where boars start, and even then, only small sows, depending on location, some of those big males, especially in cooler climes can reach 250-300 kg.
Also, Vampires in Elite seems wrong given you have Lighs in paragon. As for suggestions, some sort of zombie animal (maybe a zombie wolf) in core, move the Vampire up so that it's an upgrade of the Revenant, and replace it with a Black-Guard (an amoral living mercenary).
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted January 09, 2013 11:24 AM |
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For haven elite...A moutned cavalry sounds possible, a war machine as well...maybe something like a fat Harpoon? Or maybe a Witch Hunter?
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Wait, the Wolf Rider higher than the Boar or Troll? Just so you know, wolves generally top out at about 45kg, which is about where boars start, and even then, only small sows, depending on location, some of those big males, especially in cooler climes can reach 250-300 kg.
And a Bear is stronger and heavier than a horse, still a good Cavalry is worth more than bears, ain't it? The rider makes the difference, I think.
Necropolis
I personally do not like skeletal marksman as a name...I have by now accepted the conept of skeleton bowmen, but MARKSmen, implicating they have a high accuracy - wheere should that come from?
An undead beast wpould be indeed a good idea for Core. Or maybe a Vulture/Carrion Bird?
For Elite maybe a Dark Rider. Coudl be Headless as well
I would like to not see the Lamasu - but thats personal taste again. I would also put Dread Knight down to Paragon and put some Reaper creature to Champion.
Stronghold
Well, I have some issues here as well. While I have no problem with wolf rider higher than boar, I DO have problem with them being higher as trolls...and with Trolls in Core. Unless you'd take the untrollish Warcraft Trolls which would be a really bad choice, in my opinion.
Cat Warrior - is that a beastmen? And why is it so high, sounds more like a core or Elite. My suggestion is to swap it with troll...
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted January 09, 2013 08:03 PM |
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And a Bear is stronger and heavier than a horse, still a good Cavalry is worth more than bears, ain't it? The rider makes the difference, I think.
Not really, all you could mount on a wolf would be a goblin with a gladius, and a boar has a gladius on each side of its jaws. Boars are dangerous enough that they had to make special spear to hunt them. Bears too for that matter, and let's face it, the only time bears have turned up in any Heroes game was in the Dwarf faction in H5, when they were apparently lower than a dwarf with bladed fisticuffs.
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And why is it so high, sounds more like a core or Elite. My suggestion is to swap it with troll...
Agreed, stick the Troll up to Paragon (and find some way to differentiate it from the Ogre), and find something else to replace it at Core, my favourite would be a gnoll or something.
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Vindicator
Supreme Hero
Right Back Extraordinaire
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posted January 09, 2013 10:05 PM |
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I'm going to assume he means giant wolf here, not regular one. 
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nessich
Hired Hero
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posted January 10, 2013 03:11 AM |
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Edited by nessich at 03:17, 10 Jan 2013.
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Perhaps a cavalry archer for Haven? Or a war machine of some sort?
I think one mounted unit is sufficient, but I like having some kind of contraption as the last Haven unit.
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Wait, the Wolf Rider higher than the Boar or Troll? Just so you know, wolves generally top out at about 45kg, which is about where boars start, and even then, only small sows, depending on location, some of those big males, especially in cooler climes can reach 250-300 kg.
Well given the fact that it is a rider and it's no ordinary wolf. And I've "promoted" the troll.
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Also, Vampires in Elite seems wrong given you have Lighs in paragon. As for suggestions, some sort of zombie animal (maybe a zombie wolf) in core, move the Vampire up so that it's an upgrade of the Revenant, and replace it with a Black-Guard (an amoral living mercenary).
I don't want vampires to be too powerful, so that's why they're elite and not paragon. As for the undead beast - I'll see (I don't like a zombie wolf).
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I personally do not like skeletal marksman as a name...I have by now accepted the conept of skeleton bowmen, but MARKSmen, implicating they have a high accuracy - wheere should that come from?
Haha, good point. I'll change it.
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An undead beast wpould be indeed a good idea for Core. Or maybe a Vulture/Carrion Bird?
For Elite maybe a Dark Rider. Coudl be Headless as well
I would like to not see the Lamasu - but thats personal taste again. I would also put Dread Knight down to Paragon and put some Reaper creature to Champion.
Carrion bird sounds nice (will think about it). I love dark knights so I'll keep them as champions. As a reaper creature there already is the wight, though I'll probably promote it to paragon (and put lamasu as elite).
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Well, I have some issues here as well. While I have no problem with wolf rider higher than boar, I DO have problem with them being higher as trolls...and with Trolls in Core. Unless you'd take the untrollish Warcraft Trolls which would be a really bad choice, in my opinion.
Cat Warrior - is that a beastmen? And why is it so high, sounds more like a core or Elite. My suggestion is to swap it with troll...
Yes, as I mentioned I changed my mind about the troll. And not sure about cat warrior.
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Agreed, stick the Troll up to Paragon (and find some way to differentiate it from the Ogre), and find something else to replace it at Core, my favourite would be a gnoll or something.
Well, I was browsing artwork to find something that matches my vision of the creatures and ogres will be much much different from trolls. And I don't like gnolls in stronghold.
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I'm going to assume he means giant wolf here, not regular one.
Yes of course.
Also what do you think about having gargoyles in Necropolis instead of Academy?
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SepSpring
Known Hero
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posted January 10, 2013 09:40 AM |
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Also what do you think about having gargoyles in Necropolis instead of Academy?
Have you thought about Gargoyles (like Obsidian ones from "Heroes III") being a part of the Inferno line-up?
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