|
| Thread: Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
|
Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
|
posted April 21, 2013 10:40 PM |
|
Edited by Seraphim at 22:43, 21 Apr 2013.
|
Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act
Quote:
The Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act (CISPA) is a proposed law in the United States which would allow for the sharing of Internet traffic information between the U.S. government and technology and manufacturing companies. The stated aim of the bill is to help the U.S government investigate cyber threats and ensure the security of networks against cyberattack.[1]
The legislation was introduced on November 30, 2011 by U.S. Representative Michael Rogers (R-MI) and 111 co-sponsors.[2][3] It was passed in the House of Representatives on April 26, 2012, but was not passed by the U.S. Senate.[4] President Obama's advisers have argued that the bill lacks confidentiality and civil liberties safeguards and they advised him to veto it.[5] In February 2013 the House reintroduced the bill [6] and passed it on April 18, 2013.
Quote:
CISPA is supported by several trade groups containing more than eight hundred private companies, including the Business Software Alliance, CTIA – The Wireless Association, Information Technology Industry Council, Internet Security Alliance, National Cable & Telecommunications Association, National Defense Industrial Association, TechAmerica and United States Chamber of Commerce, in addition to individual major telecommunications and information technology companies like AT&T, IBM, Intel, Oracle Corporation, Symantec, and Verizon.[25][26] Google has not taken a public position on the bill [27] but has shown previous support for it, and now says they support the idea but believe the bill needs some work.
Quote:
CISPA had garnered favor from corporations and lobbying groups such as Microsoft, Facebook, AT&T, IBM, Apple and the United States Chamber of Commerce, which look on it as a simple and effective means of sharing important cyber threat information with the government.
A full list can be seen at the House.gov site.
House vote on April 18, 2013 passing CISPA
Affiliation Yes No Did not vote
Democratic 92 98 11
Republican 196 29 6
Total 288 127 17
Anonymous calls for Internet Blackout Day on April 22
Enjoy your internet...
____________
"Science is not fun without cyanide"
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 21, 2013 10:44 PM |
|
|
so, when are the americans going to wake up and start voting for some libertarians?
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
|
|
Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
|
|
posted April 21, 2013 10:47 PM |
|
Edited by Seraphim at 22:58, 21 Apr 2013.
|
Quote:
so, when are the americans going to wake up and start voting for some libertarians?
You mean crazy nuts like Ron Paul? That guy is so libertarian, he wants people to fend off for themselves in natural disasters, healthcare and so on.
Just keep the point of libertarianism away here. I cant stand those type of people because, imo, they dont know how a society runs, let alone be able to improve it.
Actually, the bill is ok if its stated right. As of right now, the bill is just a bad joke.
because of this Quote:
The bill will allow corporations to share their users’ personal information with the government without the government needing a warrant beforehand. The bill will kill any privacy contracts that companies have with their users, the same contracts that ensure users that they will not share their personal information with anyone.
So guilty before being declared innocent eh?
____________
"Science is not fun without cyanide"
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 21, 2013 10:54 PM |
|
|
Cause you need government to repair damage from disasters and provide all kinds of healthcare? Aswell as giving up liberty for some "safety", right?
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
|
|
Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
|
|
posted April 23, 2013 09:25 AM |
|
|
The libertarianism is a bad joke - neither funny, nor particularly intelligent. And it has nothing to do with freedom, although it has everything to do with unrestrained egoism and backdoor attempts to reduce the social responsibilities of the rich economic entities even further. It's basically like a spoiled baby which keeps crying "Me, Me, Me!!!".
As for CISPA - like I mentioned in a previous thread related to a similar issue, even if it passes, it will not last long and is very unlikely to become a globally spread phenomenon. It's practically impossible to supervise the entire Internet and there are many ways to bypass local restrictions by moving databases to less restricted locations. On the other hand, there are many ways to keep your traffic (the important parts at least) private if you want to. The greatest restriction before the practical application of such a law would be the administrative burden - there's absolutely no way to monitor the terabits of traffic generated by the Internet users every second and extract even a small piece of useful information. Too much "noise". Not to mention that it will cost A LOT.
|
|
Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
|
|
posted April 23, 2013 12:46 PM |
|
|
fred, I work in the networking field, I know how this stuff gets done much better than you.  There are MANY ways that the government - or pretty much anybody with sufficient knowledge - can spy on you and none of them needs CISPA for that. There are also many ways that you can protect yourself if you want to. This law, if I understand it correctly, is related to (part of) the public Internet traffic, which simply can not be surveyed constantly and entirely. No automatic system is that smart and it will take a staff numbering many thousands, with excellent technical skills, to sort through all the crap that's communicated between millions of people every second. And I'm not even talking about people with some technical competence.
|
|
Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
|
|
posted April 23, 2013 01:11 PM |
|
|
I was saying that all these things are a fact even without CISPA. Can't see your point. On the other hand, you vastly overestimate the ability of competing market entities to work together.
By the way don't get the impression that I support this whole crap, I don't. What I'm saying is that the Internet as it exists nowadays can not be effectively controlled/surveyed/spied/pickwhateveryoulike by any single government.
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted April 23, 2013 01:42 PM |
|
|
Quote:
it is always the more intelligent thing to do(concerning personal safety, as well as personal freedom), to over-estimate an opponent(especially when one has so much power at their fingertips), than to under-estimate them(from lack of understanding of who one is dealing with). even if you know nothing about them(which, as all the daily evidence they put out has shown me, i know a lot about), it is always better to guess worse-case scenario. it will keep you prepared, if the worse-case scenario happens.
But then there's the risk of turning into one of those conspiracy theory nut jobs. There are a lot of those in the field of history for example (moon landings did not happen, holocaust does not exist, masons (or jews or illuminati) control the world... etc etc.
No real researcher takes these things seriously, not only because they are falsified by evidence, also because the conspiracy theorists always has this notion of a perfect evil plan working exactly the way it should, while in fact people who are really analyzing things see a world of mistakes, foolishness, miscalculations and unexpected turn of events shaping great change.
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted April 23, 2013 02:05 PM |
|
Edited by artu at 14:52, 23 Apr 2013.
|
I don't think you are at the level of conspiracy freak, (not yet at least )
Notice I said nothing about BEING CALLED a nut job, I said TURNING INTO one. My concern was not about bad reputation but losing the ability to observe things in a down-to-earth state of mind.
|
|
Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
|
|
posted April 23, 2013 02:39 PM |
|
|
@Xerox
Quote:
Cause you need government to repair damage from disasters and provide all kinds of healthcare? Aswell as giving up liberty for some "safety", right?
Aren't you the guy who has always been like, "I love my country so much - FREE healthcare, FREE education, FREE BJ's for everyone!! WOOHOO!!!"??
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
|
|
Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
|
|
posted April 23, 2013 03:39 PM |
|
|
Quote:
no, i don't think you support this garbage, whoever would?(well, besides companies that can profit off of it, governments protecting themselves from their commoners, etc.)
of course these things are already fact, like i said, it's been going on since the internet was put in place. they just need it to look like the good guys, much like a judge putting on a robe makes him look like "the good guy". i am "vastly over-estimating" nothing. you are vastly under-estimating them.
zenofex, it is always the more intelligent thing to do(concerning personal safety, as well as personal freedom), to over-estimate an opponent(especially when one has so much power at their fingertips), than to under-estimate them(from lack of understanding of who one is dealing with). even if you know nothing about them(which, as all the daily evidence they put out has shown me, i know a lot about), it is always better to guess worse-case scenario. it will keep you prepared, if the worse-case scenario happens.
If you look into your own arguments, you'll notice that that there's simply now way to prepare for the worst. I'll rephrase - the government already has the means to spy on you. Each country has laws which say in a pretty straight-forward manner that spying is allowed under a number of circumstances. They exist, the public knows about them (mostly) but nobody objects. You should start with these laws if you want to be consistent. CISPA or any similar act will not supply the government or anyone who's trying to spy on you with new tools, it will only make what it's doing unofficially official and maybe will extend its reach a bit. HOWEVER, applying a surveillance system and covers the entire Internet will be both inefficient and cost-prohibitive. If you think otherwise, I'd like to see some technical arguments, not just "these guys are experts".
In any case, I fully agree that the very fact that such laws are even proposed is worrisome.
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 23, 2013 03:48 PM |
|
Edited by xerox at 15:49, 23 Apr 2013.
|
Quote:
Aren't you the guy who has always been like, "I love my country so much - FREE healthcare, FREE education, FREE BJ's for everyone!! WOOHOO!!!"??
People change?
I was twelve years old when I started posting here. I don't think it should come as a surprise that during my teens I reconsidered a lot of my opinions.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted April 23, 2013 04:07 PM |
|
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted April 23, 2013 04:19 PM |
|
|
|
C'mon Sal, we re-evaluate. You're too pessimistic on that.
|
|
Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
|
|
posted April 23, 2013 04:22 PM |
|
Edited by Seraphim at 16:25, 23 Apr 2013.
|
hey, you are forgetting this is not in the wastelands. Somebody should tell mr.firey eyeball from the abyss to remove "Unrelated" comments.
Personal development of Xerox has hardly something got to do with CISPA, unless of course he is responsible for CISPA. In that case, we should torch Xerox.
As for the subject, CISPA is just legalized sharing of private data to the US gov.
I find it very weird that Corporate groups have interest in a Bill that is aimed only to benefit the US gov.
Hey, complanies like facebook and microsoft are more than ready to take information from you and now they can claim it was done for the sake of "National" security.
Monitoring the internet is not possible, but monitoring special websites and demanding private data hints that it is possible to monitor at least part of the traffic.
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted April 23, 2013 04:23 PM |
|
|
Let's see:
Artu vs JJ, Artu immutable
Artu vs Fred, Artu immutable
Artu vs Elodin, Artu immutable
Conclusion, Artu is always right, others must re-evaluate.
sorry, off top, delete if I sinned.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted April 23, 2013 04:38 PM |
|
|
Actually, JJ and I never totally disagreed, we just had our differences in the details and we both accepted the details were in a gray area (check abortion thread). Changing your mind usually doesn't come in the form of "I was totally wrong on this." If you're a reasonable person to begin with, you have your point of view as an aspect, not as the secret to universe and the meaning of life.
Elodin's link on gun study changed my mind about gun control, I used to think it should be very strict, now I don't. To agree with him fully is quite impossible though as you'll probably see for yourself.
|
|
Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
|
|
posted April 23, 2013 05:59 PM |
|
Edited by Zenofex at 17:59, 23 Apr 2013.
|
Quote:
As for the subject, CISPA is just legalized sharing of private data to the US gov.
I find it very weird that Corporate groups have interest in a Bill that is aimed only to benefit the US gov.
Why weird? That's a way to monitor who's using someone's products without adhering to all the copyright policies, to begin with. The subtle difference is that you will pay to be monitored and eventually caught (via the taxes) instead of forcing the corporations to invent new and new ineffective DRMs.
Quote:
Monitoring the internet is not possible, but monitoring special websites and demanding private data hints that it is possible to monitor at least part of the traffic.
Most of the web-sites which can generate a problem for the national security are under monitoring anyway.
|
|
OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted April 23, 2013 06:05 PM |
|
|
I thought this thread was about something vastly different when reading the title.
Anyway.....
Quote:
artu didn't win that argument, for the record. neither did i, either, because nobody's counting.
One person has won an internet argument, and that person is Tsar-Ivor.
____________
Living time backwards
|
|
gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
|
|
posted April 23, 2013 07:22 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Congrats! You achieved what no one else here could.
Hey now, I used to be a solid Christian (evangelist, actually) with political ideals that were rather extreme on both sides of the spectrum. Now I'm a fully-fledged fence walking athiest derp. I won this game too!
I also conceded a point or two to Mvass a few months ago... Double points for me! 
As to the thread itself, as Zeno said it really won't change all that much, to be honest. More because it still has to actually go to the senate than anything else.
____________
Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
|
| |
|
|
