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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted April 24, 2013 11:40 AM |
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It was about time. Too bad for you that are "stripped of your freedom and morals". I have absolutely 0 respect for such people.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 24, 2013 12:39 PM |
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Quote:
It's already like that, you can go to the city hall, sign in and done, you are married. Marriage is not necesserily religious or romantic. There are people who marry for money, citizenship (although they kind of check on that), childcare... etc etc.
If the legal benefits are separate from the actual marriage, then what's all the fuss about? Or does this legalisation of gay marriage mean that government forces all churches to admit same-sex marriage?
I agree that government has no right to redefine marriage.
Churches and stuff must be able to decide themselves if they want to admit same-sex marriage.
I don't think marriage on it's own should provide legal benefits.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted April 24, 2013 12:43 PM |
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Edited by bixie at 13:06, 24 Apr 2013.
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Let me clear the air for some people about this situation for me.
"don't talk to him, He's a gayboy!"
That's what I heard in the playground when I was 8 or 9. We all used to pick on Bradley the gayboy, for his mop hair and that he hung around with girls. it was a fact of life when you were 8, despite what the teachers would say. no-one wanted to be the gayboy.
As I got older, I began to understand what that means a bit more. when I was 14, it was great fun to talk about bumrape and call people fudgepacker. when girls didn't want to shag you when you were 16, they were lesbo's or dykes, when a guy didn't like football he was a poofta. that was just the way it was.
I first joined this forum was I was 17, thinking it would be a laugh. creating silly ideas, messing about with ideas for heroes races, and so on. It was about that time I got my first girlfriend. Her nickname for me was Bixie, because I was a large guy and she had a weird love of fairies. And, for the start, I was in love with her. She and I used to hang out at college and home, in the park, where we'd laugh and joke and, well, shag.
sex with her always felt... weird. I don't know what It was, we just assumed it was our first time that this happens, but after that, it just felt... weird. I don't know really how to describe it apart from that. And after talking about it, I thought it was something wrong with her. It couldn't be me, after all, I'm alright, a young, fit, red-blooded man. it was her.
I went to university, where I met my second girlfriend. This one wasn't has happy, the euphoria had gone. This new girlfriend had long since picked up on something that I hadn't, and when she broke it to me, I didn't want to believe it. That couldn't be right. I'm not that. I'm not that person. I don't mind it, but I'm not it.
I was.
I was and I'd been trying to fight against it. I was unmanly, I was a poofta, I was a knobjockey. a fudgepacker. a bumbandit. and if you believe some people, a pervert and an abombination. I spent a few months hating myself for what I was, trying to "cure" myself with god knows what. Weed, booze, porn, prostitutes. just to prove to myself that I wasn't what I was.
I'm glad my friends stuck with me. It's not easy. You don't go from joe average to freddie queer in a night, no sir. It takes time, it takes people helping me through. I was blessed with a family who was accepting and understanding, and friends who were patient and kind, and if there is a higher power, I'd thank him for that at least.
I met my boyfriend soon after. He'd gone through similar things, and we bonded over that, before finding out that we had a lot in common. We've shared long walks on the beach, cuddled on the sofa, we've argued, we've made up, we've sniped and sneered and laughed and celebrated and... yeah, we've done that together. I love him. I love him like no-one else.
Now you may think that I'm telling you this because I have a vested interest with gay marriage. I do, I'm not going to deny it. But it's not just about legalising gay marriage, but recognizing it legally. If I get married to him, and he gets run over in a car accident, I want to be the first to know. I don't want to know second hand from his parents, and I don't want to be potentially denied visiting rights to see him. I don't want to him to die and for me to hear on the whim of his parents.
Which is why I get frustrated with people who say it's wrong or it's affecting the sanctity of marriage or nothing good can come out of it. that Gay marriage is immoral or imposing on freedoms or that we already have civil partnerships, we should be happy. I've heard it all and I am utterly sick of the ignorance or the stubbornness of people to not allow for one word to be associated with someone like me.
**** you.
**** you from the bottom of my heart.
If you honestly thing that my love is based on lust or isn't natural, **** you!
If you believe that we should be content we partnerships that are "Seperate but equal", **** you!
If you believe that me being born this way and me wanting to be able to live as open and honestly as you do is somehow imposing on your rights, **** you!
If you believe that my love for my boyfriend isn't good because we can't create life, **** you!
I think we've created enough life in this world!
Wouldn't it be nice if we created a bit of love?!
____________
Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 24, 2013 01:00 PM |
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A very nice post bixie, but I wouldn't try to bypass the swear filter, or uncle Corrie gets mad. Try **** instead.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 24, 2013 01:15 PM |
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Edited by artu at 13:25, 24 Apr 2013.
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Quote:
Please, please, please actually do some research before making absolute statements like this. There are, have been and always will be societies that allow homosexual marriages (Certain ancient Greek societies (Including Sparta), hundreds of tribes, most nomadic cultures and now countries like France). So our monogamous, heterosexual marriage definition is not really the only definition out there, and is in fact a revision to the word itself.
I don't think their problem is lack of research. Those historical facts had been explained to them twice, both in the Questions about Marriage thread and in the Limited Rights or Limited Government thread. The problem is conservatives' comfort zone can only work with denial, not sophisticated deep psychological kind of denial either, pure five year old type of "it's not true it's not true it's not true " denial. No matter how many times you bring them the facts (not opinions facts), each single discussion you find yourself facing the same wall of denial again. It's like debating with the guy from Memento.
Quote:
I agree that government has no right to redefine marriage.
Churches and stuff must be able to decide themselves if they want to admit same-sex marriage.
The government(s) redefined marriage many times all around world. At some point, it followed the footsteps of social change.
The government shouldn't redefine marriage FOR THE CHURCH. (-or whatever institutionalized religion you believe in.)
The word marriage is not a trademark of religion. They don't own it.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted April 24, 2013 01:36 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 13:36, 24 Apr 2013.
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Quote:
The human species consists of two genders. Male and female. The male-female relationship is fundamental to humanity. It is the core around which society is built and the best place to raise a child.
So it seems ok since hundreds of years that there are single men who are NOT allowed to live this fundamental life (catholic priests?...), but it is wrong when TWO men don't live like that?
Double Standard as usual....
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 24, 2013 01:42 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 13:42, 24 Apr 2013.
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Government shouldn't have the right to redefine marriage for anyone. Individuals have the right to define marriage in any way they want.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 24, 2013 02:03 PM |
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Quote:
Government shouldn't have the right to redefine marriage for anyone. Individuals have the right to define marriage in any way they want.
Since marriage is a contract of law, what you say has no substance. Interracial marriage was illegal a century ago, society changed, they legalized it. Your naive idea of marriage being totally kept out of the law was debated and reasons has been already given why that does not happen.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 24, 2013 02:05 PM |
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The government defines and redefines the marriage from a legal perspective only and has all the rights to do so. If you have a problem with the state changing the definition of marriage from the perspective of the secular law, then you have a problem with the secularism of the state as well.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 24, 2013 02:18 PM |
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There shouldn't be legal aspects to marriage.
If people want to get married and sign a legal contract about wealth or something, then that's fine. Point is that such a legal contract shouldn't be exclusive to marriage.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 24, 2013 02:26 PM |
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Encouraging marriage is done with the presumption that a married couple will create and bring up kids. From a macroeconomic perspective that's usually a good thing, hence the encouragement. Seriously, it's not that hard to figure it out.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 24, 2013 02:28 PM |
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Edited by artu at 16:12, 24 Apr 2013.
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Xerox, laws are never just laws, they are embedded in tradition and social patterns. They don't belong in the field of abstract logic. Ask a nudist.
Edit (daily 20 post limit):
Quote:
I know Artu. Prohibiting women from driving or hanging homosexuals are also laws embedded in culture and social patterns.
And I don't agree that it should be that way.
Those are practices (and quite extreme examples I might add) not WORDS.
What you suggest is taking the word marriage out of legal contracts and replacing with something else when for a vast majority of people that legal contract is simply marriage. They want their UNION of MARRIAGE to be legalized. You say go marry and then if you want additional legal coverage sign another extra contract. And for what? Really, where's the benefit?
Edit 2:
Quote:
What about Saudi Arabia?
It's a practice in Saudi Arabia. Don't get you here? When I say practice I mean execution, action taking place.
Quote:
The benefit is getting government out of marriage.
But you're not getting the government out of anything, you're just changing the name of the execution. Which will not stick to every day language anyway I might add. People will still call it marriage no matter how it is defined on some dusty law book.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 24, 2013 03:03 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 15:04, 24 Apr 2013.
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Zenofex: I really don't think that one of the functions of government should be to encourage breeding. Immigration eliminates such a need.
I know Artu. Prohibiting women from driving or hanging homosexuals are also laws embedded in culture and social patterns.
And I don't agree that it should be that way.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted April 24, 2013 03:08 PM |
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 24, 2013 03:12 PM |
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Quote:
I really don't think that one of the functions of government should be to encourage breeding. Immigration eliminates such a need.
Nonsense. Even countries which have a good stream of immigrants constantly have issues with them. In this forum only there's enough whining against the ragamuffins from Eastern Europe that storm the white countries in the west, working for half the normal salary, stealing and talking in a very, VEEERY incomprehensible language. And there are countries which don't have immigration - guess why.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 24, 2013 03:19 PM |
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I know there are issues (that can be fixed). But when it comes to population growth, immigration is imo a much better alternative to government breeding policies.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 24, 2013 03:21 PM |
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You don't read, you don't understand or you don't think. Or all of these.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 24, 2013 03:32 PM |
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Could you be more specific?
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 24, 2013 03:34 PM |
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Quote:
immigration is imo a much better alternative to government breeding policies.
I am all for horny Swedish blondes immigration, it will help breeding a lot, I promise you.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 24, 2013 03:40 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 16:26, 24 Apr 2013.
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There's already free migration between Sweden and France so you're in luck! 
Artu;
Quote:
Those are practices
What about Saudi Arabia?
Quote:
Really, where's the benefit?
The benefit is getting government out of marriage.
Quote:
It's a practice in Saudi Arabia.
Woman driving and homosexuality are illegal by Saudi law.
Quote:
But you're not getting the government out of anything
The government can no longer legalize or criminalize things like same-sex marriage or polygamy. People are free to define marriage as they see fit. People will still sign legal contracts when they marry but these contracts won't, by law, be exclusive to marriage.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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