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| Thread: Syria |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · NEXT» |
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Elodin
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posted April 26, 2013 01:40 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 01:40, 26 Apr 2013.
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Syria
The Syrian regime has used nerve gas on the rebels. Obama had stated that use of chemical agents would be a red line that must not be crossed. Time for him to put up or lose all credibility. Both Republicans and Democrats are calling for US action.
Clicky
Quote:
Top-ranking lawmakers on both sides of the aisle declared Thursday that the "red line" in Syria has been crossed, calling for "strong" U.S. and international intervention after administration officials revealed the intelligence community believes chemical weapons were used.
Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., chairwoman of the Senate intelligence committee, were among those urging swift action.
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Revelation
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mvassilev
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posted April 26, 2013 01:43 AM |
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It's not the place of the US military to defend people in other countries. They are hired by taxpayers to defend the US, and they should stick to that. Not to mention the numerous negative consequences resulting from intervention.
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artu
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 26, 2013 01:58 AM |
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I am not defending the government in Syria, don't read what I'm about to write like that. But know that when the Western governments can't get what they want from weak countries like Syria, they support any rebellion against it regardless of the content. The rebels in Syria are not freedom fighters in the sense you guys understand. They are radical Islamists, ex-militants of Hizbullah and so on. I know because some of them are refugees in Turkey right now, we were almost getting into combat with Syria ourselves a few months ago and there are news about the rebellion every once in a while. What I'm saying is, don't be surprised if ten years later these militants turn against you like the Taliban did. When you drop dictators in Middle East countries with no tradition of democracy, they are not replaced by senators. They are usually replaced by extreme Islamist groups.
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blizzardboy
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posted April 26, 2013 02:31 AM |
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Whether or not the US should intervene depends on several things, I think the most important of which is whether or not there is an organized, cohesive body already in place in Syria to fill the vacuum once Assad is gone. If that can't be established, the need to intervene is badly weakened because there's little expectation there will be much improvement out of the region. One bad apple replaced with another.
A 2nd one is how much popular support there is towards the established resistance that would theoretically be setting up the new regime. You're always going to have some amount of division in a country, but with minimal popular support you run a high risk of a continuation of civil war after Assad is already gone, and then the intervening powers are put in the painfully awkward position of giving up and leaving (and then get blamed for the continuation of civil war, which I guess is at least partially true, though I would still put primary blame on the country's actual factions), or it has to stay for a prolonged period of time. Neither option is very good.
If you have the 1st issue covered but not the 2nd - a cohesive body to set up a government but minimal popular support - you risk civil war from the bottom up. If you have the 2nd issue covered but the not the 1st, lots of popular support to oust Assad but little plan on what the hell comes next, you risk civil war from the top down as various emerging factions contend with each other.
The 3rd big issue is how much other UN nations are willing to foot the bill and the manpower to intervene. In the 1960s it might have been okay to make it almost exclusively a US adventure, but now that economic and military power is moderately more distributed, the US should force the issue on other countries. This particular point is pretty much exclusively for American interests. Other countries will probably try to minimize their commitment as much as they can while still reaping the benefits of a more stabilized ME and the US shouldn't be clumsy or overeager enough to play into that kind of passive exploitation.
This article lays out good reasons for why we should be hesitant to opt for the military intervention route, although it has been over 6 months since that article was published, and admittedly, if the regime ramps up its extreme measures, it makes for a stronger basis to intervene. Decent support from the inside is still critical though or you're asking for lots of blowback.
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Salamandre
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Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 26, 2013 02:50 AM |
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Quote:
revealed the intelligence community believes chemical weapons were used.
Sure, has been proved this is the easiest pretext to go berserk and put a country in ruins. If it has not mass destructions weapons, something still must be find.
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NoobX
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Now, this is a paradox...
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posted April 26, 2013 07:25 AM |
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Ok, this has gone too far... America shuldn't and mustn't interfere with the other countries' politics.
Can't Obama just mind his own business?
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blizzardboy
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posted April 26, 2013 07:38 AM |
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Why would he do that? People haven't been minding their own business for over a hundred thousand years, and we have that to thank for why the world has become so much more tame and safe to live in.
There is a level of interconnection and cooperation now that it's not so easy to get away with choking up commerce and overall well-being with long, drawn-out wars. The war in Syria affects everybody, and if a strong case can be made that there is abundant internal support to get rid of Assad and then set up another government, it would probably be a good idea to jump on that.
I agree that intervention is a self-defeating policy if the people in said country aren't amiable to outside support, or if there is a roughly even split between the two sides; that is what leads to blowback and long, drawn-out warfare. If there is an abundance of support from the inside and you can much more quickly end the conflict through a well-backed coalition, I can't see a sufficient reason why you wouldn't do that. If you spread it out among a host of nations the cost to each state's coffers would be fairly small, and the restoration to peace and order is good for everybody. Wars don't just damage the people literally getting shot at.
Each conflict zone needs to be assessed individually to determine what the best course of action would be. Only intervening if your own territory is attacked is a less than ideal policy, however there also needs to be a broad base of support from around the world for intervention to avoid blowback and steep costs on a select country.
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xerox
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posted April 26, 2013 01:26 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 13:29, 26 Apr 2013.
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A controlled intervention is a much better idea than just randomly distributing weapons among all the different, radical islamist groups (France and the UK are pushing that in the EU). You know where al-Qaeda in Mali got weapons from? Libya. Only if we can ensure that the Assad regime will be replaced by a stabile government supported by the vast majority of the population should we intervene.
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Seraphim
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Knowledge Reaper
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posted April 27, 2013 12:13 AM |
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The US should not bother with the Syrian regime, let Russia work for peace once. Lets see how many people will die before the conflict ends and besides, why should the US intervene?
How about other countries work a bit for world peace?
Ifthe US intervenes there, it would be the dumbest thing they would do consdering the economic condition.
How about a band of Balkan countries try to make a difference? Now that would be amusing to watch.
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Damacon_Ace
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Also known as Nobris Agni
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posted May 04, 2013 04:37 AM |
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Man, I've never seen so many anti-American comments posted here.
I agree with Elodin. Syria has simply gone WAY too far with that chemical weapons assault on the opposition, which I believe almost certainly included civilians, INCLUDING women and children.
That President Assad is truly a bully and an iron-headed monster. Not suprising to see Russia and China support Assad. After all, Russia has pseudo-Czar Putin who rules exactly the same way minus the weapon attacks and China is still a Communist Dictatorship responsible for much of the human rights violations inside the country.
I think Obama or an American delegate should address the UN for a referendum on attacking Syria, atomic bombs on standby if needed.
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Salamandre
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posted May 04, 2013 05:17 AM |
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Nice logic you have there: attack Syria with atomic bombs if needed, to prevent Assad killing population with ...mass destruction weapons.
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Damacon_Ace
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Also known as Nobris Agni
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posted May 04, 2013 05:24 AM |
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Quote:
Nice logic you have there: attack Syria with atomic bombs if needed, to prevent Assad killing population with ...mass destruction weapons.
Completely missed the point!
"On Standby" means that it should only be used as a last resort, and only if the US or NATO can covertly escort all innocent people out of Damascus. Then drop the bomb. You will only kill the oppressors.
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master_learn
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walking to the library
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posted May 04, 2013 10:34 AM |
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Syria is rich with oil and gas and the industries should now celebrate their victory(more available oil and gas for them).
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Darkshadow
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posted May 04, 2013 11:00 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Nice logic you have there: attack Syria with atomic bombs if needed, to prevent Assad killing population with ...mass destruction weapons.
Completely missed the point!
"On Standby" means that it should only be used as a last resort, and only if the US or NATO can covertly escort all innocent people out of Damascus. Then drop the bomb. You will only kill the oppressors.
Whoa snow, I didn't even know that NATO had access to Alpha legion grade ninja skills of getting over a million people COVERTLY out of a city and not expecting their opponents to notice A THING.
This is so dumb my brain cannot even comprehend.
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Syria is rich with oil and gas and the industries should now celebrate their victory(more available oil and gas for them).
Or not cause the rebels are half brained nimwits who couldn't operate industry any bigger than a banana plantation.
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Elodin
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Free Thinker
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posted May 05, 2013 08:06 AM |
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Obama failed to back up his "don't cross that red line" rhetoric towards Syria.
But Israel has struck Syria twice in past few days.
Clicky
Quote:
BEIRUT – Israeli missiles struck a research center near the Syrian capital Damascus, setting off explosions and causing casualties, Syria's state news agency reported early Sunday, citing initial reports.
If confirmed, it would be the second Israeli strike on targets in Syria in three days, signaling a sharp escalation of Israel's involvement in Syria's bloody civil war.
There was no immediate Israeli comment. However, Israel has said it will not allow sophisticated weapons to flow from Syria to the Lebanese Hezbollah militia, an ally of Syrian President Bashar Assad and a heavily armed foe of the Jewish state.
Two previous Israeli airstrikes, one in January and one on Friday, targeted weapons apparently bound for Hezbollah, Israeli and U.S. officials have said.
The Syrian state news agency SANA reported early Sunday that explosions went off at the Jamraya research center near Damascus, causing casualties. "Initial reports point to these explosions being a result of Israeli missiles that targeted the research center in Jamraya," SANA said.
A Syrian activist group, the Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, also reported large explosions in the area of Jamraya, a military and scientific research facility northwest of Damascus, about 10 miles from the Lebanese border.
An amateur video said to be shot early Sunday in the Damascus area showed a huge ball of fire lighting up the night sky. The video appeared genuine and corresponded to other Associated Press reporting.
Israel's first airstrike in Syria, in January, also struck Jamraya.
At the time, a U.S. official said Israel targeted trucks next to the research center that carried SA-17 anti-aircraft missiles. The strikes hit both the trucks and the research facility, the official said. The Syrian military didn't confirm a hit on a weapons shipment at the time, saying only that Israeli warplanes bombed the research center.
On Saturday, Israeli officials confirmed that a day earlier, Israeli aircraft targeted advanced surface-to-surface missiles in Syria that were apparently bound for Hezbollah.
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Damacon_Ace
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Also known as Nobris Agni
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posted May 05, 2013 09:12 AM |
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I read about the Israeli airstrike, apparently they were only targeting a weapons envoy and facility that was aimed at Hezbollah. I don't know when Israel will stand up towards its Muslim neighbours intent on wiping it out?
But all in all it's a strike against Assad, even if it was indirect and light.
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xerox
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posted May 05, 2013 12:10 PM |
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Israel's intent is to weaken Iran. Iran is an ally to the Syrian government. Hezbollah is an ally to Iran. It's also in Israel's interest to destroy research facilities containing chemical weapons that might very well be used against them in the future.
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted May 05, 2013 01:14 PM |
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It's funny how half of the people in this thread are screaming let's rape Syria because of evil...
...and completely disregarding the fact that the numerous rebel groups are fighting more among themselves and slaughtering the civial population than the government forces.
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Seraphim
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posted May 05, 2013 03:13 PM |
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So, is this a declaration of war between Israel and Syria?
So far, it has been interesting to see totalitarian forcees vs Religious extremists kill each other.
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xerox
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 05, 2013 03:22 PM |
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nah Israel has always thought that they have some kind of right to attack Syria any time they want. Like the time when their bomb planes made a quick visit to Syria to destroy a nuclear research facility.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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