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| Thread: The Plot of Shades of Darkness (nearly insane) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted October 24, 2013 04:43 PM |
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This game has a multiplayer?
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted October 24, 2013 04:45 PM |
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DoubleDeck said:
Flashuuuu 
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted October 24, 2013 04:50 PM |
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Simpelicity said:
Interesting, if a little theatrical. What's so bad about the dark elves and Raelag especially?
There is nothing interesting or inspired about including dark Elves in anything. I mostly hate seeing Elves in games because you know there are most likely going to be Dark Elves somewhere down the line.
As to Raelag, I do not know which is worse: The fact that a pedophile demon was in love with the half-wit Isabel since she was a child or the fact that Isabel exists in the Might & Magic universe at all. I am leaning towards the later. (That's a round about way of saying "Elvin was right.")
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted October 24, 2013 05:57 PM |
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"Interesting, if a little theatrical" refered to your opinion, not the dark elves. TBH the entire series has been very cliché, I'm not sure why you latched onto elves specifically for being cliché...
Isabel-hate I can understand though. On the other hand, demons having faults is nothing new. Disrespecting the legal age by a couple years isn't that extraordinary for them.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted October 24, 2013 08:24 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 20:25, 24 Oct 2013.
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Maurice said:
How the Demon Sovereign captures Raelag is never explained, Kiril only hints at it that he's after Raelag now for having kicked out the Demons from the Invisible Library, after returning it from Sheogh.
Kha-Beleth never "captured" Raelag. He more like "made an offer he couldn't refuse"... or maybe just fact, that all Soulscar Clan becomes demon worshippers some time after 50SoP.
Simpelicity said:
Isabel-hate I can understand though. On the other hand, demons having faults is nothing new. Disrespecting the legal age by a couple years isn't that extraordinary for them.
Agrael wans't demon (Griffin Heart didn't work on him, unlike on demons). He was "just" a corrupted, dino riding demon cultist.
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"Details are everything."
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted October 25, 2013 08:08 AM |
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If Agrael = Raelag,
Does Isabel = Belias?
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IbnWaliBarad
Hired Hero
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posted October 26, 2013 06:55 AM |
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Maurice said:
IbnWaliBarad said:
Basically Sandro really is the good guy, but for some reason they try to depict his oponents as reasonable people. Who wouldn't want to tear this horrible spiders mutant apart? And tear the fabric itself of Asha to finally have the freedom to explore the universe?
Anyway, I did saw a small cutscene with sandro and raelag. Do they get to interract?
And is it explained how raelag really became Agrael, or is it just a premise, the start of an explanation?
Well, I guess so, aside from the fact that he wants to destroy life, the universe and everything just to play god in a universe of his own design  .
Does he actually state this intent, or is it just those mutated spider worshippers interpretation?
I wouldn't believe those brainwashed cultists.
I could be wrong, but it seems his intention is simply to break the net and reach the void full of unlimited potential?
Especially after being so upset with the dragons playing with everyone's souls (not just his apparently), encouraging people to follow him, I doubt he's after the destruction of everyone's soul.
He also did speak about setting everyone free instead of imprisoning them like Sar Elam.
Now his breaking of the net might come with terrible consequences.
But then again, I wouldn't blame him for destroying this snowty Ashan setting.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted October 26, 2013 07:19 AM |
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DoubleDeck said:
If Agrael = Raelag,
Does Isabel = Belias?
More like Isabel=Anton.
After all Asha reincarnates her children with memory wipe and these two behave like the same person.
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"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted October 26, 2013 05:02 PM |
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Ibn, he specifically states he wants to erase Asha, her children, and by extension, Ashan itself. Bring it all to the void, where potential is "limitless". He also invites Vein to join him, because together they can create such a wonderful world (or something). Reading behind the lines of that last one, he's destroying this world to create a new one, where he'd obviously be God almighty since he created it. Same old Sandro, thinking bigger this time. At least that's my interpretation of it.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted October 27, 2013 03:46 PM |
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Avonu said:
DoubleDeck said:
If Agrael = Raelag,
Does Isabel = Belias?
More like Isabel=Anton.
After all Asha reincarnates her children with memory wipe and these two behave like the same person.
I preferred Biara 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 28, 2013 01:22 PM |
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Meh  Her motives were as obvious as humanly possible and the sole reason she could get away with things was because the others were stupid.
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IbnWaliBarad
Hired Hero
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posted October 28, 2013 03:37 PM |
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Simpelicity said:
Ibn, he specifically states he wants to erase Asha, her children, and by extension, Ashan itself. Bring it all to the void, where potential is "limitless". He also invites Vein to join him, because together they can create such a wonderful world (or something). Reading behind the lines of that last one, he's destroying this world to create a new one, where he'd obviously be God almighty since he created it. Same old Sandro, thinking bigger this time. At least that's my interpretation of it.
It's kind of left to interpretation, but at worst I would say he's irresponsible. He does seem genuinely outraged that the dragons are playing with everyone's very essence like puppets.
It's not certain if he wants to ''replace this world'' instead of simply creating his own world. In which case, tearing this world is mostly a mean to an end, and perhaps a bitter revenge, a gesture of disgust.
He would be irresponsible if the process greatly endangers every souls of Ashan, but we're not exactly sure what will happen when he kills the big dragon.
He doesn't seem to care about other human beings (for good or for worse), it doesn't seem like he intends to replace the dragon and enslave everyone's soul again. He would probably let them fend for themselves after the tearing, and leave for his own corner of the universe.
There's one thing I'm sure of is that I don't trust these necromancers. They're merely serving the dragon goddess, they don't fight for the good, they fight to keep her grip on this world and it's thousands of enslaved souls. They're slavemasters themselves, of the worst kind, which is fitting.
In short, preserving Ashan just means you preserve the Goddess' interests, nothing else.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted October 31, 2013 01:40 PM |
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IbnWaliBarad said:
It's not certain if he wants to ''replace this world'' instead of simply creating his own world. In which case, tearing this world is mostly a mean to an end, and perhaps a bitter revenge, a gesture of disgust.
Actually, it is. He wants to unravel the fabric of reality by releasing the Void energy on all of existence (he's starting by erasing the memories of the Wars of Creation, which is killing intelligent Undead everywhere). Then, when all is gone, he wants to shape and create his own world(s) and - in essence - rule over them like a god, just like the Dragon Gods rule over Asha's creation.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 31, 2013 02:27 PM |
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IbnWaliBarad said:
There's one thing I'm sure of is that I don't trust these necromancers. They're merely serving the dragon goddess, they don't fight for the good, they fight to keep her grip on this world and it's thousands of enslaved souls.
And thank goodness for that. A goody-two-shoes necromancer would be lame 
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted October 31, 2013 04:15 PM |
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Elvin said:
And thank goodness for that. A goody-two-shoes necromancer would be lame
I dunno. Arantir was kinda good. Or at least his goals were. He pursued them ruthlessly, but preventing Armageddon seems a pretty reasonable thing to do.
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IbnWaliBarad
Hired Hero
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posted October 31, 2013 06:06 PM |
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Maurice said:
IbnWaliBarad said:
It's not certain if he wants to ''replace this world'' instead of simply creating his own world. In which case, tearing this world is mostly a mean to an end, and perhaps a bitter revenge, a gesture of disgust.
Actually, it is. He wants to unravel the fabric of reality by releasing the Void energy on all of existence (he's starting by erasing the memories of the Wars of Creation, which is killing intelligent Undead everywhere). Then, when all is gone, he wants to shape and create his own world(s) and - in essence - rule over them like a god, just like the Dragon Gods rule over Asha's creation.
Indeed, he wants to shape and create his own world, that's his goal, he doesn't want to replace Asha at the head of this one and rules over the other mortals.
In the end, Asha is evil. Sandro just wants to create his own world, and at least is disapproving the practice of repeatedly bleaching and playing around with people's soul.
The destruction of the current world is a mean to his end : breaking into the void and access the universe.
He also hates the world, which could be another motivation.
Intelligent undead are snows so it's a good start.
Did he specifically said that he wanted to rule over the current mortals? Won't he just let the current people of asha to fend for themselves if they arent obliterated when he destroy this world? It seems more likely.
He might also redirect them to another world for all we know.
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted October 31, 2013 11:40 PM |
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Okay Ibn I tried to find pertinent pieces of dialog but I could only find 2, I think I'm missing 1 or 2. In any case, here's what I found where Sandro talks motives/goals/whatnot.
Vein/Sandro discussion in map 2
The end of SoD
If any of y'all remember what I'm missing (assuming I'm missing some), do tell, I'll find it and add it (or you can do it if you want, the share function works the same for you).
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IbnWaliBarad
Hired Hero
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posted November 01, 2013 09:31 AM |
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Simpelicity said:
Okay Ibn I tried to find pertinent pieces of dialog but I could only find 2, I think I'm missing 1 or 2. In any case, here's what I found where Sandro talks motives/goals/whatnot.
[url=http://youtu.be/kyG03fU2yUw?t=25s]Vein/Sandro discussion in map 2[/url]
[url=http://youtu.be/iFrMspFzTtU?t=3m]The end of SoD[/url]
If any of y'all remember what I'm missing (assuming I'm missing some), do tell, I'll find it and add it (or you can do it if you want, the share function works the same for you).
Thanks, now we can examine what we know.
-Sandro found a pretty place somewhere outside this world where he gets to create his own realities. As far as we know, we have no idea how it would look like, but at least, due to sandro's disgust over the practice, mortals (if there are some in his worlds) wouldn't have their souls constantly toyed around with.
-He is ready to share this with some people.
-Vein calls him mad. But then, isn't Vein a mad psychopath himself.
- Vein could be very close minded. And he tries to assume the position of the rational good guy.
- We accuse Sandro of being megalomaniac, but he is the one trying to destroy the megalomaniac dragon.
- We don't know what really happens when Sandro kills the dragon goddess. Yes, it definitively look like this world would be destroyed, but the process of such destruction, and the opportunities for the current resident of asha are unknown. Who knows if they wouldn't be able to travel in the void themselves (helped by sandro or a third party) and reach another world (Axeoth...).
It could have been accidental, but the author of the plot left things unclear enough so that we can't tell who is right or wrong.
They should capitalise on this if they were to make a sequel. Plot where there are no clear villain/hero, and the morality of the characters actions is ambiguous , are superior.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 01, 2013 02:20 PM |
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Come on  If you open a dictionary on megalomaniac you will find a picture of Sandro. And he doesn't give a crap about anyone toying with souls, it's not like he doesn't do that himself.
Now Vein is a rather bloodthirsty fellow but he was pretty rational otherwise. He knows his nature, what he can and cannot do and apparently takes informed decisions. We have no reason to dismiss him as mad, after all I would not like someone else playing with cosmic forces that could potentially put your universe at risk. Would you?
There is also no indication of Asha being megalomaniac. Both her and her brother were born from the cosmic egg, apparently with a predisposed morality. To me it looks like they are just following their nature, order and chaos respectively. Now why would she have woven her veil around Ashan? Who knows? Maybe she is protecting her creation from outside forces like the Kreegans? Maybe she is trying to maintain her order within a closed system? Maybe.. she has no other option? Perhaps the worlds beyond Ashan are the creation of other deities that are out of bounds from her? Just saying that she does that because she is manipulative and proceeding to murder her sounds.. high and mighty at best? Sandro is Machiavellian, he believes he has something to get out of this. It has been made abundantly clear that he only does things for himself and he is far from an idealist.
If you play the campaign from start to finish I'd say it is quite clear who the villain is.
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IbnWaliBarad
Hired Hero
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posted November 01, 2013 03:28 PM |
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Elvin said:
If you play the campaign from start to finish I'd say it is quite clear who the villain is.
I had a few hours to spare so I watched simplecity's whole walkthrough.
I am aware of what you mention, It just seems silly to call any of the necromencers 'rational', vein is no exception.
'Asha's uses all' is the nonsense they spew around brainlessly. They can't be the good guys. Maybe Asha is a necessary evil, as you said, maybe she protects against the kreegrans or something, but it's an evil nonetheless.
As for Sandro, I can give the link (only if you ask) where he clearly shows disgusts for what Asha's doing. He's in no way a do gooder, but calling him the villain of this story is unwise. He does have a morality, a pretty loose one I admit, which places him higher than Asha's necrotic drones in my book.
Hypothetically, if you were in this world, would you appreciate your soul to be repeatedly bleached and reprogrammed, the memories of your loved ones erased, and your whole lives always bound to a fate threaded by some dragon? A dragon who might as well decide you'll be reshaped into a ghoul at 5 and suffer for the next 500 years.
That's what sandro was mad about, and that's why he started looking into the void. He stated it.
I believe this debate shows that, for once, the plot was decent. Protagonists/Antagonist over which we can argue the righteousness are well written one.
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