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| Thread: "Hard" work |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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mvassilev
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posted January 17, 2014 10:26 PM |
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Doomforge said:
Most jobs are extremely one dimensional and focus on repeating stuff in accordance to an algorithm over and over.
If you're a janitor or retail worker, perhaps. But many people aren't, especially so-called "office drones".
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Doomforge
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posted January 17, 2014 10:33 PM |
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mvassilev said:
If you're a janitor or retail worker, perhaps. But many people aren't, especially so-called "office drones".
Hence I used the word "most"... 
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Vindicator
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posted January 17, 2014 10:55 PM |
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I think by hard work, they don't mean it's actually difficult to do in principle, they mean that it's hard for them to be doing instead of something else. I personally would say boring instead, but maybe it's a culture/language thing.
As for the gloating, I don't know what to say. I've never met anyone like that...
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted January 17, 2014 11:52 PM |
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Quote:
Whereas stuff like art, music, literature develops your personality and makes it richer.
WHAT
Oh god you're an elitist snower, please bury yourself under a train, I'm sorry I ever talked to you
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xerox
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posted January 18, 2014 02:21 AM |
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Edited by xerox at 02:21, 18 Jan 2014.
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Hard work in itself is nothing to be proud of. However if your hard work results in positive outcomes for yourself and others, than that's something to celebrate. In relation to the self the positive outcomes obviously have to outweigh the bad. I.d. you shouldn't be proud of working hard if it makes you hate your life.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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fred79
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posted January 18, 2014 07:37 AM |
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Edited by fred79 at 07:42, 18 Jan 2014.
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most of the older country people talk about hard work(i guess they mean physical labor). they also like to brag a lot, but so does a bunch of other people.
personally, i don't see why someone would feel pride over physical labor, unless you're actually producing something worthwhile.
office drones do not fall into this category. hell, most jobs don't fall under the worthwhile category, as most of the people in the world make nothing but trash, and nothing to be proud of. but there are enough people who make something substantial, that is actually worth being proud of. but then, it's all a pov, and what one person values, another might not.
i see a lot of pride in the world, from my pov, that needs sawed off at the knees.
i can't stand any part of society that lives in the past(values, beliefs, etc), and praises the old ways. the old ways are dead and rotting. but then, the new ways aren't exactly great, either. and the future certainly sure doesn't look like anything to get excited about. the way many people think, it makes me want to do a cannonball off a cliff, and leave their world behind. but they would rejoice in my departure, so i don't. now, the best i can do is not take their world seriously, because it is jam-packed with idiots.
(that last paragraph wasn't going off on a tangent, exactly. i was still addressing the topic, but in a roundabout way)
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Zenofex
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posted January 18, 2014 08:20 AM |
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Doomforge said:
Most jobs are extremely one dimensional and focus on repeating stuff in accordance to an algorithm over and over.
Whereas stuff like art, music, literature develops your personality and makes it richer.
Yeah, but you don't get too much work for developed personalities out there. The society, the economy and you need ridiculous amounts of low-end labour - meaning boring and tedious labour as per your definitions - to make sure that everything keeps going. And even the not-so-refined personalities can get fed up with repetitive low-end tasks so often they have to force themselves to keep doing them - because they are needed, at least to an extent, even if their only valuable output is one's salary used to feed his/her family. That's where one of the interpretations of "hard labour" comes from.
On the other hand, you may find some super-innovative bombastic way to accomplish something and still work your ass out before you're done. Say, you're the smartest engineer in the world and also happen to be strong and motivated, you decide to build yourself a house using your latest brain-child which will halve the construction time without affecting the quality of the final product in a negative way... but you have to do it all by yourself. Which will be "hard work" no matter how well you have thought the whole thing over.
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Doomforge
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posted January 18, 2014 12:05 PM |
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JoonasTo said:
Quote:
Whereas stuff like art, music, literature develops your personality and makes it richer.
WHAT
Oh god you're an elitist snower, please bury yourself under a train, I'm sorry I ever talked to you
Wha....?
I'm having a hard time recognizing you, honestly.
Workaholics are the most boring people in the world. What, stating the obvious makes me "elitist" now?
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artu
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted January 18, 2014 12:44 PM |
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I agree that calling every this and that elitism is bollocks, it's just a passive-agressive way of praising mediocracy. One can easily reverse that by accusing the accuser of populism. Elitism is bad when it's based on something people can't change, like social class or nationality, it's also bad if it's an instrument for scorning people, especially if it's, again, because of something they can't change like their education level or their IQ. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with telling people to broaden their horizons.
On the other hand, you seem quite overselective in your complaint DF, it's like you are targeting "workaholics with very boring jobs who keep bragging about their dull office work" which hardly counts as a social phenomenon. How many are there out there, 8 or 9
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Doomforge
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posted January 18, 2014 12:49 PM |
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It is quite a phenomenon here. I'm quite surprised (positively) that people don't meet many of such guys in their countries. Oh well, you learn how much your country sucks every day you live
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fred79
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posted January 18, 2014 01:12 PM |
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artu said:
Elitism is bad when it's based on something people can't change, like social class or nationality, it's also bad if it's an instrument for scorning people, especially if it's, again, because of something they can't change like their education level or their IQ. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with telling people to broaden their horizons.
so, what you're basically saying is, it's bad to hate stupid people just because they might have a lower iq? i must be an elitist then, and the bad kind, to boot. thanks for clearing that up. this is me giving a ****. this is me getting up and doing the cabbage patch to the discovery of that knowledge. look at how much i care. just look. look at how much i give a ****ing ***** that i'm an elitist ****. 
lol. i'll broaden their horizons. i'll send 'em to the ****ing moon. i'll stack 'em, thousands high. i'll climb to the top of their dead, and at the top, i'll do the ****ing cabbage patch. yeaaaahhhhh boyyyyy! 
thanks artu, that just hyped me up. another cup of coffee to the face. 
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted January 18, 2014 01:19 PM |
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So if you only spend your life on reading lolita, over and over and over so you don't have time for anything else, only talk about that and brag about how an expert you are on lolita, you're a better person, richer soul and fun to talk to? Right.
Have fun in your coffin all alone, I shall not disturb your masterful enlightenment O great one.
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Doomforge
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posted January 18, 2014 01:20 PM |
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What he is saying is that having standards has nothing to do with elitism.
If a person never reads books, for example... it's blatantly noticeable if you talk to him. It just is.
And it's his damn fault, too.
JoonasTo said:
So if you only spend your life on reading lolita, over and over and over so you don't have time for anything else, only talk about that and brag about how an expert you are on lolita, you're a better person, richer soul and fun to talk to? Right.
Have fun in your coffin all alone, I shall not disturb your masterful enlightenment O great one.
ad absurdum.
Do you feel personally offended, or something? You're acting absurdly aggressive over a simple fact that people who are not interested in anything else but ant-like life of simple labor are boring.
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fred79
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posted January 18, 2014 01:24 PM |
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JoonasTo said:
So if you only spend your life on reading lolita, over and over and over so you don't have time for anything else, only talk about that and brag about how an expert you are on lolita, you're a better person, richer soul and fun to talk to? Right.
Have fun in your coffin all alone, I shall not disturb your masterful enlightenment O great one.
lol, was that directed at me? i'm confused.
or was doomforge talking to me in the first part?
yes and no, no and no, yes and yes, or no and yes?
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted January 18, 2014 01:32 PM |
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Doomforge said:
JoonasTo said:
So if you only spend your life on reading lolita, over and over and over so you don't have time for anything else, only talk about that and brag about how an expert you are on lolita, you're a better person, richer soul and fun to talk to? Right.
Have fun in your coffin all alone, I shall not disturb your masterful enlightenment O great one.
ad absurdum.
Show me how it differs from your case and I'll rephrase it so you can recognise it.
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fred79
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posted January 18, 2014 01:38 PM |
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lol, i guess that's between joonas and df. in this cohwnah! weighing in at ....
how much do you guys weigh? i want to place a bet.
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Doomforge
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posted January 18, 2014 01:40 PM |
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I'm talking about people with nothing to say, and hence are dull.
You're trying to play devil's advocate by pointing out I'm elitist because people who have nothing to say (because they are obsessed about something else than work) are dull...
... sorry, that doesn't make any sense.
You basically confirm what I say, but swap the subject of their single-minded obsession and act all "I proved you stupid".
So let me enlighten you.
I compare people with multiple interests and massive knowledge to single-minded laborers that are overly proud of their mind-numbing job and call other people lazy because they spend 12 hours per day repeating those simple tasks.
Go ahead and express how the first group can be substituted for the second.
Or stop making strawmans and acting like the defender of "honest laborers".
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artu
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted January 18, 2014 01:43 PM |
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Edited by artu at 13:46, 18 Jan 2014.
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Seriously JoonasTo, have you ever seen a person reading only one book over and over again and reading nothing else? Sounds like a Marquez metaphor (100 Years of Solitude) rather than a real life example.
Edit: Unless, of course, the book is the Bible or the Quran
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted January 18, 2014 02:51 PM |
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I'm not trying to point out that you're elitist. I'm not trying to compare single-minded labourers to people with multiple interests. I'm not trying to defend anyone.
I'm trying to make you realize that what you wrote in your first post can be applied to anyone dedicated to something. And how incredibly narrow-minded it makes you look. I know you're jealous of practically everyone who's better of than you and despise people who get there with luck. What I refuse to believe is that what you wrote there is your real opinion. I can deal with that kind of single-mindedness when it's coming from Kip or fred but you? Come on, you're better than that.
Sorry fred, I'm currently underweight, barely over 160. A nice 30 away from my fit weight. Good thing I know DF has a weakspot that I can take advantage of with low kicks.
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xerox
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posted January 18, 2014 03:21 PM |
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Guess what guys, I've discovered something amazing.
People have different preferences!
Some like socialising with intellectuals.
And some like socialising with people who aren't as committed to using their human mind.
What a shock!
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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