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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted March 03, 2014 10:48 PM |
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OhforfSake said:
He obviously means Finland..
 
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 03, 2014 11:14 PM |
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blizzardboy said:
A clever manipulation of over half the country.
The world is connected. Ideas, goods, and people move around. The people in the streets were not NATO operatives in civilian clothing, or being paid by NATO operatives, or being intimidated by NATO operatives. There were not American agents chilling out in the trees pointing riot devices into the crowds causing them to riot. They were just normal protestors. Ukraine sees Russia and it sees the EU, and it is shifting towards the EU, probably because the EU doesn't treat people like ****. That is the obvious answer and also the correct one, as is usually the case. Russia has now isolated itself from the outside world more so than any time since 1991.
I'm not going to substitute straightforward explanations with far more convoluted explanations unless you can show me why. "It's all a clever manipulation, man" isn't good enough.
what about NED (National Endowment for Democracy) for example? I'm not sure they are involved, but from what I know it's an american organisation promoting democracy (= what USA wants) present in many countries. they give civic education on politics and democracy. I hear they actually train protestors to destabilize government. oh, and it seems even though it's a non-governmental organization, it is mostly funded by US government agencies, and we're talking hundreds of millions of dollars.
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GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
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posted March 03, 2014 11:47 PM |
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mvassilev said:
Tsar-Ivor said:
Russia is in the right here, I wouldn't stand for a terrorist regime on my borders, especially when they have control of such a large proportion of ethnic Russians.
 Russia does border North Korea, but they don't have many ethnic Russians.
OhforfSake said:
He obviously means Finland..
I hope then that Finland does not have too many ethnic russians or they may be Putin's next victim. Deport them while you can or start learning russian. 
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted March 04, 2014 12:11 AM |
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We do. Too many.
But we also know which ones of them are the intelligence officers and who are just honest people looking for good money. So yeah, we have designated strike teams to take out their designated strike teams. Home ground advantage let's us strike first so it wouldn't be like Ukraine or Georgia.
That doesn't stop the regular military from completely steamrolling ours though. The current doctrine requires a tensing political climate at least six months before a military conflict. So if Russia wanted to, it could steamroll Finland in a week with a sudden attack.
We don't even have as many anti-tank weapons they have tanks on our borders. It's complete dependence on good intelligence.
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VOKIALBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted March 04, 2014 10:06 AM |
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Warmonger said:
I am really dissapointed by this situation. The west is debating, "expressing dissapointment" and "call for diplomatic solutions", but does nothing while Putin easily rebuilds Soviet Union. The difference is now, unlike during Cold War, Russia is many times weaker than West. But it's determined and consequent, unlike western authorities. Ukraine is left alone and passive, as well.
The only hope is that finally war begins and suddenly everybody will get an excuse to turn against Russia. Turkey is the closest military force that can threat Russia, to begin with, and they have good reasons as far as I know.
Are you serious?
1. This isn't SU "rebuilds". There is no real fighting already, and the russian troops are where the russian MAJORITY is. There will be a referendum to determinate if they really need more independency.
I dont even need to go for 2.
I'll only add. That people all around Europe and mostly EU are hypocrites. I see it here, and I hear its elsewhere. When the Kosovo thing happened most people supported its independence. Now they do not. Why this? Because EU and USA dont support it. And the scenario is almost the same, and the difference is... there is no blood. At least for now. We have minority, that is MAJORITY in certain region. The Statute of UN give them their rights to choose. And they will. How can you see something wrong in this? This is the democracy USA always clam to fight for. Yes, it is. And if their politics and their people, and our politics and our people were not hypocrites, they would SUPPORT this. Even US. There is no reason to support Kosovo or Libia or Syria or Tibet, and not this.
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted March 04, 2014 10:42 AM |
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Why don't they send in the UN peacekeepers? the idiots with the light blue helmets?
Oh, right. those guys are like Christmas gifts for snipers.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted March 04, 2014 01:58 PM |
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Why would they send in Peacekeepers? It is (relatively) peaceful already. There are no real battles going on.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted March 04, 2014 03:45 PM |
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Especially since now, it is alleged that the Ukrainian military is surrendering to the Russian invaders.
Quote:
“There is no safety threat to human life in Crimea,” Mr. Aksyonov said.
That is my favorite part. Apparently there is no safety threat when armed invaders enter your country and point guns at you. No safety threat at all.
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JoonasTo
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Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted March 04, 2014 03:52 PM |
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Edited by JoonasTo at 16:02, 04 Mar 2014.
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It is estimated that about a third of the ukrainian armed forces in the area are still loyal. They're all surrounded in their bases with no option to do anything.
There is a NATO Russia meeting tomorrow btw.
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blizzardboy
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Nerf Herder
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posted March 04, 2014 04:47 PM |
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The Russian forces are just there as a human shield. Putin really doesn't need to even send a real hefty military force in, which he didn't. It's like what the US does in S. Korea. They have a couple bases stationed at the line, even though the N. Korean military could steamroll over it if it wanted to. The purpose is that if anybody ever did anything, there would be dead soldiers and instant pretext for a strong response without jumping through any red tape. So if Ukraine or even NATO tells Russia to evacuate Crimea, they could just say "No," and then what?
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GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
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posted March 04, 2014 05:27 PM |
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VOKIALBG said:
I'll only add. That people all around Europe and mostly EU are hypocrites. I see it here, and I hear its elsewhere. When the Kosovo thing happened most people supported its independence. Now they do not. Why this? Because EU and USA dont support it. And the scenario is almost the same, and the difference is... there is no blood. At least for now. We have minority, that is MAJORITY in certain region. The Statute of UN give them their rights to choose. And they will. How can you see something wrong in this? This is the democracy USA always clam to fight for. Yes, it is. And if their politics and their people, and our politics and our people were not hypocrites, they would SUPPORT this. Even US. There is no reason to support Kosovo or Libia or Syria or Tibet, and not this.
I do not think that anyone here is necessarily against Crimea's independance. It is just that Russia violated Ukraine's independence by sending military over its borders to take advantage of the situation like a rat (A very big radioactive rat). Now we will never know but I seriously doubt that the new government would immediately start giving the russian ukrainians the same treatment that the protesters were given by the old pro-russian government. Yet Russia could not wait to exploit the situation and "protect ethnic russians"(from what?) before anything could even happen. If the new government really had opressed russian ukrainians then we all would have been pissed at them for their hypocracy. Also, Russia is really no better than the USA when it comes to hypocracy. Them protecting a people's right for independance when they themselves have armed rebellions in their own opressive nation is laughable.
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted March 04, 2014 06:02 PM |
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GunFred said:
"protect ethnic russians"(from what?)
why do you think the crimeans started arming themselves? cause the bandits of maidown threatened to kill off all the russians who live in Ukraine. those snowers would've done the same cleansing that Balkans have suffered.
That's reason enough I suppose.
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"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 04, 2014 06:02 PM |
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kipshasz said:
the bandits of maidown threatened to kill off all the russians who live in Ukraine.
I'm highly skeptical. This needs a source.
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Eccentric Opinion
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted March 04, 2014 06:12 PM |
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yea, a neo nazi party runs this crap now, and you need a credible source?
God damn it, I'm sceptical about your independant thinking. just another brainwashed drone.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 04, 2014 06:19 PM |
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It's a rather extreme thing to say, I want to see a source for this. If a neo-Nazi really is running this, a source shouldn't be hard to find.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted March 04, 2014 06:39 PM |
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kipshasz said:
yea, a neo nazi party runs this crap now, and you need a credible source?
God damn it, I'm sceptical about your independant thinking. just another brainwashed drone.
So, not accepting said things without sources=brainwashed drone
I think Goebbels called, he said he wanted to pet you.
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted March 04, 2014 07:03 PM |
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oh sure, because the media basically publishes this kind of stuff everyday.
nothing that makes the bandits look like bandits is allowed there. the so called "independant" media removes them after a while.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 04, 2014 07:06 PM |
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So, you're making a wild assertion and can't back it up.
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Eccentric Opinion
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GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
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posted March 04, 2014 07:06 PM |
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Edited by GunFred at 19:12, 04 Mar 2014.
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Kip, spewing hatred of liberty, the west and anyone different than yourself while licking Putin's balls at every opportunity does not make you an "independant thinker". Making up facts does not make you anymore credable either...
"If you will not trust any media at all then you should go and grab those guns of yours and take a look OR just stay silent about things you know nothing about."
Edit: What is up with the hate for nazists AND jews?! 
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted March 04, 2014 07:27 PM |
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GunFred said:
Edit: What is up with the hate for nazists AND jews?!
I support Mussollini's form of nationalism. the basic ideas at least.
I don't go out and preach "kill off all the minorities!". If you can at least speak the language and aren't a snowing parasite, you're welcome to stay.
yea, I hate liberty, freedom of speech, ect. yea sure. Where's the liberty to publish whatever the snow you want without any consequences? I remember not a while ago the editor of a so called "independant" newpaper here had an "accident"(his paper was widely criticizing our lesbian old hag of a president) freedom of snowing speech. yea, freedom my ass.
"if the goverment is efficient it's called a dictatorship"- some wise words from a snower who's name I forgot.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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