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fuChris
Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
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posted December 31, 2015 07:41 PM |
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Rinveron said:
verriker said:
but also of losing the Heroes 3 game designer due to tasteless idiots in the community who threatened to murder him, which is important to acknowledge when we whine here in said community lol
Why would people who like the game do that? heroes 3 changed the game completely (if uve played 1 and 2) considering we worship the game now seems odd ?
Because some people are major Arseholes.
To be fair it did prevent Forge. Too bad not even deaththreats could have prevented H6 and H7 since, well...(insert spideropolis joke here).
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"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.
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Rinveron
Hired Hero
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posted December 31, 2015 08:31 PM |
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fuChris said:
Rinveron said:
verriker said:
but also of losing the Heroes 3 game designer due to tasteless idiots in the community who threatened to murder him, which is important to acknowledge when we whine here in said community lol
Why would people who like the game do that? heroes 3 changed the game completely (if uve played 1 and 2) considering we worship the game now seems odd ?
Because some people are major Arseholes.
To be fair it did prevent Forge. Too bad not even deaththreats could have prevented H6 and H7 since, well...(insert spideropolis joke here).
nbah ubi have a lovly red button witch says "uve bought our game but we will ban u for slagging us off". heroes 7 could be good if limbic/ubi stopped being lazy. heroes 6 was not like 7 we hardly got a chance to test it and see it before releas (heroes 6). When they fix the AI I will call it on par with heroes 4(and I am a heroes 4 fan ) its a short way of 3 and a long way of 5 (for some reason I don't regard H3 that much compared to 5 but I did have H5 as first game I ever played on a PC)
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted December 31, 2015 09:08 PM |
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Galaad said:
@Sal and Verriker
Why are you guys fighting, you both make valid points leading to the conclusion Ubisoft are the incompetent ones lying to the fanbase and delivering garbage. And regarding H4 whatever the reasons of what happened it IS the less popular title IF you excude H6 and H7 (or rather MMH1 and MMH"2").
oh it's nothing personal at all, I just don't think Heroes 4 and its devs should be lumped in with the same rogues gallery of Team Erwin's various incarnations, there are many really legitimate reasons why it is the way it is,
after all they not only had a vision for the game but also the most imaginative and original vision since Heroes 1 with many progressive ideas, even if they were undercut by several other more stupid choices lol
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Rinveron
Hired Hero
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posted December 31, 2015 09:11 PM |
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well I'm a heroes 4 fan and I think the dev team arnt much different. (this is excluding heroes 6 here) heroes 7 and 4 have the same issues. the dev team rushed it due to money. sadly both teams are alike (and I'm a big fan of 4) both had potential to beat H5 imo just if more money and time was spent. heroes 7 only needs a good AI, 3D stuff and better campaign animations. heroes 4 we all know the issues for that.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 31, 2015 09:25 PM |
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Nah, that's bollocks. Heroes 4 is a revolutionary different game from 3. while H7 is just simply a mediocre take on a well-known "formula".
H4 is lightyears better than H7 will ever be.
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Rinveron
Hired Hero
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posted December 31, 2015 09:28 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
Nah, that's bollocks. Heroes 4 is a revolutionary different game from 3. while H7 is just simply a mediocre take on a well-known "formula".
H4 is lightyears better than H7 will ever be.
oh I agree as I am a H4 fan... but it has the same core thing that caused its issues. if both game had the time nad mnoney put into it they would both be even better .
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted December 31, 2015 09:35 PM |
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@Verriker, obviously I fully agree, but I think what Sal meant is that he thinks Heroes 4 would still have had all the changes it had no matter the fans feedback after they learnt about the Forge, at least is how I understood it.
@Rinvenron, no this is not a matter of time and budget, but of game design and vision of the series. Quite ironic the Erwin Team tells us they make the game with the fans then have no trouble saying there is a contradiction with their vision: they make the game for themselves, not for us is how I get it.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted December 31, 2015 09:40 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
H4 is lightyears better than H7 will ever be.
Of course it is, it just plays different while H6 and H7 are just dumb.
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Rinveron
Hired Hero
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posted December 31, 2015 09:45 PM |
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[quote name=Galaad
@Rinvenron, no this is not a matter of time and budget, but of game design and vision of the series. Quite ironic the Erwin Team tells us they make the game with the fans then have no trouble saying there is a contradiction with their vision: they make the game for themselves, not for us is how I get it.
thing is heroes 4 was not really for the fans was it. compare heroes 3 and H4. think of the differences it was 2 revolutionary I think for many. I agree with ur H7 is from them not us. but its still about time and cash... they don't put cash in cos they want profit. no cash means limbic cant put time in (imo limbic want it to be as best as they can) as u fiond oftern with game now a dasy its the cash that the issue not the devs.. we just blame it on the devs
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted December 31, 2015 09:47 PM |
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What you don't get is that is not time and cash that makes the design, it's the understanding of the series you're working on and your personal investment and passion given the deadline and resources. If the Erwin Team was actually competent, bugs would be the only problem of H7, and it definitely isn't.
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Rinveron
Hired Hero
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posted December 31, 2015 09:48 PM |
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Galaad said:
What you don't get is that is not time and cash that makes the design, it's the understanding of the series you're working on and your personal investment and passion given the deadline and resources. If the Erwin Team was actually competent, bugs would be the only problem of H7, and it definitely isn't.
yes but if ubi had the brains they would just re hire the H5 team  but I'm guessing they cost a few thousand more meaning they loose profit in the short tearm in the long tearm thought they gain
thing is Gal we all say this but ubi own the game now not 3DO. we will be stuck with this and if the ymake a heroes 8 we will all say after h6 and 7 we wont pay for it but like someone said before u get to a point because its heroes we pay for it
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted December 31, 2015 09:52 PM |
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I paid for H6 and didn't for H7, I even called for boycott down the blog and in other fan forums.
If I'm not mistaken Nival ended contract with Ubisoft precisely because they had disagreements in the game's conception. If someone still has the source for that I'd be grateful since I lost it.
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Rinveron
Hired Hero
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posted December 31, 2015 10:01 PM |
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Galaad said:
I paid for H6 and didn't for H7, I even called for boycott down the blog and in other fan forums.
If I'm not mistaken Nival ended contract with Ubisoft precisely because they had disagreements in the game's conception. If someone still has the source for that I'd be grateful since I lost it.
Gall we all remember everything uve done in shadow council..just sadly as long as ubi can milk it for money they will do I thought u got H7 since u speak so much of the game
I have no idea about H5 devs. I think for H5 there was a long brake between it a H6 so personally.
imo the best way for heroes now is someone who is very expireneced who will make a expansion/update that firt fixes bugs/ai then goes onto making the game better with skill wheel etc. even if they charge for it I would prefer to pay for a good fan mod than have a game that boring
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 31, 2015 10:04 PM |
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Yes, I consider that surpassing Heroes 3 was nearly impossible at that time, and, by refusing any contact with Slava Salnikov which had already cracked the code and could indeed have created a extension-sequel similar to H2-H3 changes -just imagine a wog like game, where everyone could create his town, his creatures, his spells, all this backed by solid multiplayer and creative map generators as we have today-, they had the only option left to create a new Heroes. Or they ran out of inspiration, then time, then money. Or also I can think there was not possible, a better game in same style. Fans bickering had very little to not at all impact, I think.
Because we tend to believe that progress is inevitable, in all areas, concerning everything and everybody. Or this is not always realistic: for example Mona Lisa can't have a better sequel, a Mozart's Requiem can't have a better sequel. Because they do not represent a technical progress, but an inspiration climax. Sure its greatly exaggerated to put H3 near immortal artworks, I take an easy shortcut to prove my point. From my perspective, Heroes -as most of us dream about- is born with Heroes 2, became mature with Heroes 3 then died with Heroes 4. I don't see how the aging effects of H4 could be reversed and then negate the natural cycle.
Of course, there is still a possibility of a good Heroes game one day, but I fear that game will look less and less like the old Heroes we are accustomed. That one died, imo.
Still, from what I observe around, from other games, we are nowhere near the moment of shouting "The king is dead, long live the King!". As video games products are not legislated in any codes of laws, the companies will go for faster and faster profit, will require working teams to deliver games faster and faster, ofc at the detriment of the quality. And this will work.
For the simple reason that you can't ask for a refund if the game you bought isn't working or partially working. This is the area people must fix first.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Rinveron
Hired Hero
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posted December 31, 2015 10:07 PM |
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thing is Sal that heroes 5 was (for many) just an improved H3. so I agree that H3 was extreme for its time. Ubi/limbic think like the world improvement/change is good. most of the time it is of course. but I think they need to improve heroes 5 make a game just like heroes 5 (with the new more realistic graphics etc) and then improve on it so keep the core skill wheel concept like h5 so certain skills unlock other in a different skill tree thing. then limbic can say that skill is bad lets improve it etc. they need to do that and not just remake heroes in their own idwe a
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted December 31, 2015 10:12 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Of course, there is still a possibility of a good Heroes game one day, but I fear that game will look less and less like the old Heroes we are accustomed. That one died, imo.
To be honest I think it is perfectly doable, given the right people are in charge, and if Ubi as a company doesn't interfere with the process as well, which I doubt. Again look at Witcher III, everything is made with perfect understanding, aesthetics does not clash with previous titles, is the same spirit with improved graphics, is fully moddable etc. Why wouldn't it be possible for Heroes?
Rinvenron said:
thing is Sal that heroes 5 was (for many) just an improved H3.
I have no proof but I'm pretty much convinced only a minority of the original h3 fanbase thinks that.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 31, 2015 10:14 PM |
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@Rinveron (as Galaad was fast and already posted something between)
No, your judgment is biased, as you told in previous posts that H5 is the first game you played on PC. So it boils down to what I was talking about in previous posts, that young people (or newcomers) adapted easily to the new perspective, while old mummies like me (who had played H2 and H3 for 10 years), not.
I can't stand the 3D in a Heroes game. I saw NONE of my old friends and ToH veterans (except Jinxer but he is hair-cutter, thats why) moving to H5.
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Rinveron
Hired Hero
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posted December 31, 2015 10:15 PM |
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Galaad said:
Rinvenron said:
thing is Sal that heroes 5 was (for many) just an improved H3.
I have no proof but I'm pretty much convinced only a minority of the original h3 fanbase thinks that.
Perhaps Galaad but im stilla young person tho I respect many old game (and I mean many) heroes 3does not appel to me as much as H5 I find it an improvement for me. But still thought im sure u must agree with me ubi need to make a game like heroes 3/5 and just improve it with good things like balancing things mostly
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Rinveron
Hired Hero
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posted December 31, 2015 10:16 PM |
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Salamandre said:
@Rinveron (as Galaad was fast and already posted something between)
No, your judgment is biased, as you told in previous posts that H5 is the first game you played on PC. So it boils down to what I was talking about in previous posts, that young people (or newcomers) adapted easily to the new perspective, while old mummies like me (who had played H2 and H3 for 10 years), not.
I can't stand the 3D in a Heroes game.
it may be slightly biest but I have played all heroes games (perhaps not fully on campaign side) but ive played them. im not a newcomer to the series I got H5 a year after its release and I got H3 not long after. I love both but like I said in other post I do like H5 slightly more
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 31, 2015 10:18 PM |
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I mean you started with H5, and this changes the approach to heroes fundamentally. Is like taking the plane, then try the plow.
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Era II mods and utilities
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