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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 09, 2015 07:59 PM |
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Succubi were the best in Clash of Heroes. Sufficiently brutal, and actually seductive for once.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted March 09, 2015 08:00 PM |
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Pawek_13 said:
Are we speaking about Succubi with constant bladder inflamation?
...yes. She's a succubi so playing of sexuality is kind of necessary even in battlefield situations (something the rest had no excuse for). She was also demonic and got a very monstruous and downright creepy design while still keeping some uncanny sexyness: they were both disgusting yet at the same time very alluring.
i'd go as far as calling it quite brilliant but it's not exactly unique as it's something that shows up quite often (DA lust demon comes to mind but that one is problematic for different reasons).
it wasn't perfect though as the burning crotches of the upgrade were just plain weird.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 09, 2015 08:04 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 20:04, 09 Mar 2015.
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Dave_Jame said:
@Stevie: The reason why "loathe it" as you say is not the idea in itself. I'm rather fond of that, and I took part in MaM X's development even before so I knew how it will work, but its outcome.
And what's the outcome that you so much hate?
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 09, 2015 08:05 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
She was also demonic and got a very monstruous and downright creepy design while still keeping some uncanny sexyness: they were both disgusting yet at the same time very alluring.
...and then, we got strange, ugly ladies with whips.
Alright.
On a side note, Jezebeth was also the best in Clash of Heroes.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted March 09, 2015 08:06 PM |
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Sligneris said:
Galaad said:
I only try to bring back some beauty here ...
BRING ME THE BEAUTY
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted March 09, 2015 08:08 PM |
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Stevie said:
And what's the outcome that you so much hate?
If it wasn't obvious from my first post of today. It is how it depicted the community, and generally caused negative emotion between individuals and groups.
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 09, 2015 08:10 PM |
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Avonu said:
Sligneris said:
BRING ME THE BEAUTY
I FOUND BEAUTY
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted March 09, 2015 08:11 PM |
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Sligneris said:
...and then, we got strange, ugly ladies with whips.
Alright.
On a side note, Jezebeth was also the best in Clash of Heroes.
while i dislike the use of "ugly" as an actual reason for bashing the succubi (seriously, it's borderline misogynistic) you are correct in that they were much worse. from monstrous, demonic, creepy yet alluring (though the face was still to perfect) too normal women with whips and wings. one of few design-changes to inferno i whole-heartedly disagree with.
i haven't played CoH so i wouldn't know about that, sorry.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted March 09, 2015 08:12 PM |
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Sligneris said:
I FOUND BEAUTY
In that case:
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 09, 2015 08:13 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
while i dislike the use of "ugly" as an actual reason for bashing the succubi (seriously, it's borderline misogynistic)
An ugly succubus is an ineffective succubus.
They are seductresses. They are supposed to look alluring, at least in some part.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 09, 2015 08:16 PM |
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PandaTar said:
I eat void at breakfast. Don't you see my colors? Oh, no avatar yet, god-damnit. XD
But I will make you eat it for lunch and dinner too until you'll be fed up ^^
PandaTar said:
(no town conversion, town teleportation, creature pooling, zoning controls)
Zoning control will return.
PandaTar said:
Skills? Nothing yet. Spells? Nothing yet.
Ofc nothing yet, those things are being developed while we talk. I thought that was clear 
PandaTar said:
And yes, something new, unique, groundbreaking. That's just a customer's demand. The worst it'll happen: I won't buy the game.
Oh yeah, Heroes once did it... do I need to remind what came with "grondbreaking"? ^^
Oh no, please, buy this game!!!
P.S.: if H7 fails, there may be no other Heroes...
kiryu133 said:
while i dislike the use of "ugly" as an actual reason for bashing the succubi (seriously, it's borderline misogynistic) you are correct in that they were much worse. from monstrous, demonic, creepy yet alluring (though the face was still to perfect) too normal women with whips and wings. one of few design-changes to inferno i whole-heartedly disagree with.
My hand wants to hide my face for some reason.
What, we can't use the "ugly" in case of really ugly succubus? She needs to be sexy and attractive, that's her defining feature. And she must be so in eyes of men, let me remind you.
I see nothing alluring in H5's succubus. Only Biara's voice in my version's localization.
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 09, 2015 08:16 PM |
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Dave_Jame said:
Stevie said:
And what's the outcome that you so much hate?
If it wasn't obvious from my first post of today. It is how it depicted the community, and generally caused negative emotion between individuals and groups.
So basically because it hurt the feelings of so many people. Such a childish argument. You don't stop voting and debates because people happen to disagree.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 09, 2015 08:19 PM |
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I thought zone control was actually a cool feature.
Town conversion... depends. To me, it was something that wasn't unwelcome either, but it should be way harder, you know?
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 09, 2015 08:23 PM |
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Avonu said:
In that case:
It's a smiley face 
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted March 09, 2015 08:30 PM |
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Edited by kiryu133 at 20:34, 09 Mar 2015.
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i can't believe we're having this conversation....
Sligneris said:
An ugly succubus is an ineffective succubus.
Firstly, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. what you call ugly i might find the most gorgeous thing ever concieved by humanity. it's completely subjective. the only thing the succubi needed to do is make sure it was recognizably presented as something "beautiful" or coveted. It needed to conform to medias' idea of "beauty", which it did: feminine posture, thin waist, wide hips, large breasts and long hair. that's all it needed to do (and it did) in order to be a "beautiful" creature.
secondly, her looks shouldn't be the only thing that matters in her success: there are more ways than shallow looks to seduce someone. for example, charm is just as, if not more effective as a method. besides, the h5 succubi was clearly "uglier" (she's presented as a monster, through and through) she was also better at playing up her sexuality and as such, was much better at her "job".
There is also the fact of basing a female creatures looks as basis for creature quality which is borderline mysogynistic since you're judging her purely from a visual standpoint as if she was an object. while this is technically true (VIDEOGAME) it's also a very disturbing and outright troubling thing to do and i'd ask that you refrain from doing so in the future
Avonu said:
Sligneris said:
I FOUND BEAUTY
In that case:
they all pale in comparison to...
TRUE BEAUTY
mmh... 
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted March 09, 2015 08:38 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
But I will make you eat it for lunch and dinner too until you'll be fed up ^^
Good, my stomach us rumbling.
Quote:
Zoning control will return.
Yes, I know, I was mentioning due it'll be a little different, as they said. Not everything will be converted as once, wasn't it? Or if you got an enemy mine, it would produce of you for a little while, something like that, if I'm not mistaken. That's a better view on it, I think.
Quote:
Ofc nothing yet, those things are being developed while we talk. I thought that was clear
Too lately developed then, you should say, now that they say they even have an alpha version, which I suppose they'll use what they already developed, which is ... what? Nothing? I hardly believe in that. I cannot vouch to trust in that structure of development. Sounds completely reverse.
Quote:
Oh yeah, Heroes once did it... do I need to remind what came with "groundbreaking"? ^^
Of course, we both don't think alike. Do you refer to anything that happened with 3DO as if Heroes game was the main problem for that? I cannot really use that as an example. H4 is the game I play the most, aside those terrible visuals, because I find the mechanics the most fun to play with (with Equilibris, that is). Only personal taste.
Quote:
Oh no, please, buy this game!!!
Hope it's not a sarcasm. I'm being polite so far. Just showing you my view over the matter that, regardless how awful H6 was, here I stand in the hope that H7 won't follow the same path. Although, right now, I'm indeed thinking it'll hardly be a game worthy of my time under my preferences and priorities, which I deem are pretty much different from yours.
____________
"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 09, 2015 08:44 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
Firstly, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. what you call ugly i might find the most gorgeous thing ever concieved by humanity. it's completely subjective. the only thing the succubi needed to do is make sure it was recognizably presented as something "beautiful" or coveted. It needed to conform to medias' idea of "beauty", which it did: feminine posture, thin waist, wide hips, large breasts and long hair. that's all it needed to do (and it did) in order to be a "beautiful" creature.
secondly, her looks shouldn't be the only thing that matters in her success: there are more ways than shallow looks to seduce someone. for example, charm is just as, if not more effective as a method. besides, the h5 succubi was clearly "uglier" (she's presented as a monster, through and through) she was also better at playing up her sexuality and as such, was much better at her "job".
There is also the fact of basing a female creatures looks as basis for creature quality which is borderline mysogynistic since you're judging her purely from a visual standpoint as if she was an object. while this is technically true (VIDEOGAME) it's also a very disturbing and outright troubling thing to do and i'd ask that you refrain from doing so in the future
I don't see how judging a visual design of an unit in a game is troubling or misogynistic. They don't look well, so they might always be designed better. That's what they did with Yrbeth, did they not? They made her look quite pretty in Shades of Darkness, compared to H5.
Don't mention a word "misogynistic" too much, either. I'm allergic to feminism, and I honestly don't want to start this discussion either - we're here talking about design of the Succubus unit not about how beauty standards are a scourge on this society (which means we should get rid of any standards, basically).
Either way, I'm not mistreating any actual person, so I don't see what I should be ashamed of.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 09, 2015 08:47 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
Firstly, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. what you call ugly i might find the most gorgeous thing ever concieved by humanity. it's completely subjective. the only thing the succubi needed to do is make sure it was recognizably presented as something "beautiful" or coveted. It needed to conform to medias' idea of "beauty", which it did: feminine posture, thin waist, wide hips, large breasts and long hair. that's all it needed to do (and it did) in order to be a "beautiful" creature.
You're so wrong in this case I can't even put to words.
Find me one man who will find H5's succubus sexy and attractive. Just one.
This is a succubus we're talking about. She must be seductive, must be attractive in carnal way. And - very important thing - in the eyes of men. AFAIK you're a woman, so, how to put it mildly... your point of view about beauty doesn't count. As well as ours won't count if we had discussion about Incubus.
You may think H5's succubus is brilliant and all, it doesn't change the fact that she's ugly.
That's the succubus for me:
kiryu133 said:
There is also the fact of basing a female creatures looks as basis for creature quality which is borderline mysogynistic since you're judging her purely from a visual standpoint as if she was an object. while this is technically true (VIDEOGAME) it's also a very disturbing and outright troubling thing to do and i'd ask that you refrain from doing so in the future
You don't know what misogyny means, don't you?..
Aside from that, how else can we desribe Succubus's quality if not by her... looks?
____________
Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 09, 2015 08:48 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 20:51, 09 Mar 2015.
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted March 09, 2015 08:50 PM |
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I think they were the most attractive female unit in Heroes 5.
____________
"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
