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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 23, 2015 12:17 AM |
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Edited by Stevie at 01:03, 23 Mar 2015.
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GenyaArikado said:
I dont need to play the game to look at a picture of the starter outfit and see it has spiders. Go back to your cave fat gollum
Calling for a penalty and a silence here. Or will admins condone this type of attitude and language even further?
As for your "argument", you don't go around, bringing ONE picture with one piece of clothing showing a spider then claim that the extent to which Ashan went with the spider inside Necropolis is related in any kind of way. That's the very definition of a bad argument.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted March 23, 2015 12:22 AM |
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Did i lie?
According to you one pic from WoW is enough to prove that THE.ENTIRE NECROPOLIS IS A WOW RIPOFF but pictures from another game of the franchise (which predates WoW and WC3 to top it off) isnt. That totally makes sense
I have nothing more to say for now, keep quarreling alone little furballs
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 23, 2015 01:41 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 01:51, 23 Mar 2015.
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The thing is, as I tried to explain for about 30 pages in a row somewhere in this thread, the visuals and lore has drastically changed with Ubisoft’s reboot of the franchise. So, while some people now discovering Heroes are appealed to them, around three generations of passionate gamers aren’t (most of them). And there is the clash. And the incredibly stupid business decision as well, imo. Why loose MOST of your original fan base and try to gather a new one, playing other games, when you could just keep satisfied and trustful and loyal customers ; these won’t prevent new people to discover the beauty of this franchise FFS. Of course gameplay is important, there is an established formula which has proven itself within the first three games and started to evolve even further in the fifth game, satisfying BOTH most ancient and newer players of Heroes, this isn’t for nothing is it. But the world is JUST as important, while some people may not care about visuals and lore, some ACTUALLY DO, and have a right to express their frustration in a constructive and clear manner. However, is kind of hard not to get destructive when your opinion is constantly being attacked with void arguments and provocative statements (be it from some fans or from the company itself –Arachnopolis is the timeless undying faction). The ripoff from Warhammer got Ubisoft a lawsuit and the Warcraftization of Heroes made (only to take a recent example) Lizard Warrior create a full thread, with examples screaming evidence, this is not a random rant, it is a clear analysis he made here. So while us fan argue and get mad at each other, I can only but blame the company for creating the whole situation. Why is Ashan receiving so much hate? Not only because it is silly (arguably), but mostly because it ERASED a whole era, letting down so many fans, who only would have loved for the beautiful adventure to continue ... Of course newer fans won’t understand the hate, but, instead of trying to understand, they prefer to use the annoyingly overused and incredibly wrong so-called "nostalgia" argument, instead of just, out of curiosity maybe, try to play what is preached as the Holy Grail (FYI not only H3). It isn’t preached as such for nothing mind you. Yes there was a spider theme in the past as well, but was it screaming all over the place like it is now? As Avonu could show, NO. Is the spider theme a bad idea by itself? As Sandro400 explained, NO (although I personally don't like it, but that is beyond the point). It is the uber-emphasis on it which is bad. And this is only the Necro situation. Wait for Sylvan and Dungeon reveals, I have bad feelings about these as well. The clash of the fan base is created by the company and no one else, making it too easy for them to say we are sending mixed messages, are being ungrateful, and cannot agree altogether. Of course we can’t, we are not playing the SAME GAME. Mechanics does not make all, most of my friends with whom we used to spend hotseats nights on H3, I cannot play H5 with them, they simply refuse. Some will say it’s 3D, others will say it’s the designs, others will say they can’t stand the background, etc etc etc. Rebooting should have limited itself in the term only on the revival part, not tabula rasa of a whole, marvelous and loved world, which is now being bashed on by people who like the new setting.
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 23, 2015 02:07 AM |
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I'm willing to believe that there's an alternate universe, in which Ubisoft kept the original setting, but fans instead of complaining about the setting being replaced complain about the setting being ruined.
That's exactly the problem. Had they tried to keep the setting, they'd be most likely accused of destroying it. It's hard to come up with good, original ideas for an universe that wasn't created by you originally and make everything fit. Huge gaps in canon, even contradictions would be inevitable. Even if it wouldn't be, instead the whole thing could seem very forced.
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted March 23, 2015 02:41 AM |
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I am fairly convinced they would have utterly destroyed the legacy of enroth/axeoth had they not switched over to Ashan, purely because in my eyes they are blatantly destroying most of the good stuff and adding blandness.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted March 23, 2015 04:18 AM |
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@Galaad: I beg to excuse myself. Not really wanting to take part in this new wave of this topic, which haunts us all, but as you speak of the old and loved world I must again highlight the question "which of those worlds that there was you mean".
Since most people speak about Enroth in this context, and Enroth was killed before Ubi took over, by its own creators.
edit:
TDL said:
I am fairly convinced they would have utterly destroyed the legacy of enroth/axeoth had they not switched over to Ashan, purely because in my eyes they are blatantly destroying most of the good stuff and adding blandness.
And this. No matter what things ubi does or will do, be them bad or good, they will do it to their own creation and not to the work somebody else so many of you love and cherish
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted March 23, 2015 05:26 AM |
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pretty sure those of us in this universe and the hypothetical alternate universe have something major in common: we complain about Ubisoft's consistent show of ineptitude and woefully crap storytelling above anything else lol
link
"Let us say that it's time for Dorothy to ride the dark whirlwind and leave the gentle light-hearted fantasy of Axeoth behind. Ahead lies a world of blood and shadows, of jagged blades and voracious flames, of sweet lies and bitter poison... That's where we're taking you, and the best part is, you'll gonna ask for more  "
so, so much wrong in that interview lol
Heroes V and VI had a story written and presented so badly it doesn't make sense on the most basic levels, even with the advantage of the best budget so far and a world of their own making, you literally have to go online and look up the order of the Heroes 6 missions to even start piecing together the plot in a coherent way, I mean that's insane
yeah, hate to imagine how Axeoth would have gone - we might not have had the ridiculous lich vampires or the copy and paste dark elves shoved in our face, but if the good souls responsible for Queen Isabel would have been in charge anyway, it could have been a nightmare to end all nightmares
so I'm pretty sure when people suggest Ubi should have honored their responsibility to Axeoth, they mean it with the small print that instead of hiring the Erwins, the Richard Danskys, the Jeff Spocks and even the Marzhins of this world, they should have hired the NWC writers of Axeoth, who showed far more talent under far tougher conditions and would have probably done a far better job lol
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted March 23, 2015 05:42 AM |
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If it bothers you then get the snow out lol. The point of hobbies and games is entertainment and fun. If it bothers you and causes you to be a bitter bish then stay away of it :3
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted March 23, 2015 06:38 AM |
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GenyaArikado said:
If it bothers you then get the snow out lol. The point of hobbies and games is entertainment and fun. If it bothers you and causes you to be a bitter bish then stay away of it :3
I assume that's addressed to me, honestly in my opinion the most bitter posts around here lately have come from your account, but either way telling people on a discussion forum who don't accord with you to get the snow out is much more of an indictment of you than anyone else
even completely tasteless, witless morons such as myself know that telling people to get the snow out is no way to behave in life, so with all due respect, maybe please try to engage with those of us who don't share your view instead of just throwing around excrement half of the time, cheers lol
anyway btw concerning the whole spider cult in Might and Magic 8 discussion, the above interview I linked shows that Erwin didn't even know which planet MM8 was set on, so I really doubt that game was any sort of inspiration for him and his spidery ways lol
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted March 23, 2015 06:53 AM |
- penalty applied by Elvin on 23 Mar 2015. |
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Lovely deflect. At least you are aware about being a witless moron
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 23, 2015 07:41 AM |
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Stevie said:
GenyaArikado said:
I dont need to play the game to look at a picture of the starter outfit and see it has spiders. Go back to your cave fat gollum
Calling for a penalty and a silence here. Or will admins condone this type of attitude and language even further?
In that particular instance I will let it slide because your tone was provocative, the kind that invites drama. That is often the case so control yourself if you please.
GenyaArikado said:
Lovely deflect. At least you are aware about being a witless moron
This however clearly crosses the line. Being blunt about one's beliefs is one thing, insulting is another. What I said to stevie is true for you as well, your tone is often provocative and this does not help with having a meaningful discussion.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted March 23, 2015 08:09 AM |
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Stevie said:
You're allowed to have an opinion of MM8 after you play it. That's how it works. Oh, and deal with it.
That's bullsnow and you should know that. I can have any opinion i want about games i haven't played based on observations. that said, i should at least have working knowledge of it if i'm going to discuss it.
Sligneris said:
That's exactly the problem. Had they tried to keep the setting, they'd be most likely accused of destroying it. It's hard to come up with good, original ideas for an universe that wasn't created by you originally and make everything fit. Huge gaps in canon, even contradictions would be inevitable. Even if it wouldn't be, instead the whole thing could seem very forced.
Ashan feels pretty forced...
but you're probably right. Making a new universe is easily the best way to go since these writers clearly can't do the old universe justice 
ok seriousness: Ashan is necessary since no one would've liked it if they'd continue with the old universe. that much is obvious. However Ashan is ATM pretty snow. by which i mean it is snow but could be pretty good. this mostly, in my humble opinion, boils down to their petty insistence of making everything race-based. Ashan is so secluded and forced. Let factions be defined by their believes and themes rather than the primary race in charge. Don't make Dungeon the DE town, make it the evil sorcerers and mad scientist town that happens to be inhabited by DE's, minos and Medusae. That way it's all about the themes and philosophy.
TL;DR: don't make towns race themed.
and competent writers would be nice but then again this is ubisoft. Good writing is pretty foreign to them.
Question: what company would you like to have gotten the rights instead of Ubisoft?
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 23, 2015 08:09 AM |
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The line of defense (or is it attack?) of the old against the new is a little bit to righteous for my taste.
The side presenting the "old worlds" would be much more credible, hadn't there been the Forge incident, and that one isn't so much different from a spidery Necropolis. Both in common is the fact that a self-proclaimed fanbase is damning the game developers for following through with their intentions, intentions a couple of people really hate.
All this arguing about things long past ... the old games are still in great use, but definitely not because of their great story-telling or the complex beauty of the worlds they play in. If anything, they are in play because THEN the relation between money spent on the movie aspect and money spent on the gaming aspect, not to mention money spent on marketing was a lot more gamer-friendly; but even that is misleading, simply because THEN it was the technology that more or less dictated what was possible and what wasn't; even 30 years ago you could already make an interesting game, but visuals?
So this whole argument is completely silly. Then was THEN. We simply will not get an immaculate game with simple but beautiful visuals and a killer story or stories. We WON'T. Because that would need the vision of a genius, and even then there still was the past to compare it with.
It doesn't help, that the producers try to create hype and fire people's interest, because that creates expectations. And the longer the wait for something with a lot of expectations the better ist must be to make all the waiting worth it. Ultimately, though, the game will be so much fun, and the only relevant question will be how much - and that is all there is to it.
No reason to argue, really.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 23, 2015 08:16 AM |
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I would like to ask everyone to avoid making things personal. Things like x is not worth arguing with, is immune to reason or a stupid fat hobbit do not get us anywhere and diminish the forum mood. If this keeps up I will start deleting posts without warning but I'd rather we did not get to that point.
I'd also like to see a reduction in picture spam. The occasional meme or relevant pic is fine - I have contributed some myself - but let's not flood the forum Also, please do not quote posts with big images just to add a line of text. You can always delete the image link from the quoted post.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted March 23, 2015 08:26 AM |
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malax83 said:
The game is developped in a cocon and over-protected, hit lonely players and their money,... to finally make a new heroes 8. I'm french and i m ashamed of what they are doing, i feels gulty too cause all french games company has miss the developpement of videos games.
Don't be ashamed.
You guys gave us Another World. And Little Big Adventure!
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 23, 2015 08:27 AM |
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JollyJoker said:
The side presenting the "old worlds" would be much more credible, hadn't there been the Forge incident, and that one isn't so much different from a spidery Necropolis. Both in common is the fact that a self-proclaimed fanbase is damning the game developers for following through with their intentions, intentions a couple of people really hate.
Maybe but the other side of the coin could be that the devs did not know their fanbase well enough. They did provoke some pretty bad reactions which I am sure they would have avoided if they knew better. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle, the devs should have the freedom to do their thing but on the other hand they should respect the community's wishes or expectations. The former would be bored if they kept making the same game or should I say someone else's game while the latter would be disappointed or outraged if the changes were not implemented well or were nothing like what they wanted to see. Lots of grey area in between so communication and negotiation is the key imo.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted March 23, 2015 08:34 AM |
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Indeed there is no point in pointing out how much old Heroes sucks.
That is of the past and we should all be focusing on how much new Heroes is gonna suck
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted March 23, 2015 08:49 AM |
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verriker said:
"Let us say that it's time for Dorothy to ride the dark whirlwind and leave the gentle light-hearted fantasy of Axeoth behind. Ahead lies a world of blood and shadows, of jagged blades and voracious flames, of sweet lies and bitter poison... That's where we're taking you, and the best part is, you'll gonna ask for more "
I'm still waiting for Ubi to present us this world already. And no I'm not gonna ask for more, I would ask for SOME of that. Ashan is like the most light-hearted version you can think of ... it's the OPOSITE of this description, so CLEARLY they are not referencing Ashan with that? 
That or Ubi was trolling us.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 23, 2015 10:04 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 10:05, 23 Mar 2015.
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
verriker said:
"Let us say that it's time for Dorothy to ride the dark whirlwind and leave the gentle light-hearted fantasy of Axeoth behind. Ahead lies a world of blood and shadows, of jagged blades and voracious flames, of sweet lies and bitter poison... That's where we're taking you, and the best part is, you'll gonna ask for more "
I'm still waiting for Ubi to present us this world already. And no I'm not gonna ask for more, I would ask for SOME of that. Ashan is like the most light-hearted version you can think of ... it's the OPOSITE of this description, so CLEARLY they are not referencing Ashan with that?
That or Ubi was trolling us.
Dark whirlwind of blood, shadows and voracious flames lol  That sentence shows what's wrong with ashan, it tries too hard but at the same time it fails to deliver. Sure the stakes are high, the deaths countless, there is patricide, rape, slavery but I find it hard to take too seriously when the tone is so grim while the story content is ridiculously over the top. The nwc team did not just have better writing but also a more grounded story and that worked better for dramatic stories. I can't speak for everyone but I feel that the dark and gritty theme has overstayed its welcome in popular culture - it has become too mainstream. Ubi tried that in prince of Persia warrior within and the results were more amusing than serious.
Like the prince said, I smolder with generic rage. Much dark, very gritty, wow
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted March 23, 2015 11:17 AM |
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@Elvin:
Idk ... I don't get gritty and grim tone with Ashan at all . Unless Ubi's "grim" has Disney definition. I mean seriously, Cinderella and Snow White were more dark than this. Like you said, they try, but fail to deliver.
Over the top? I wish. THIS is over the top
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
