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Alex_Yakub
Famous Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 09:26 AM |
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Naze said:
Alex_Yakub said: Since the site is still down, I hope Ubi announces something more than just the winner of the vote (Sylvan, of course)
Like all the line-ups for all 5 factions and 3D town screens? I would love that
+100500 (although I will be okay even if townscreens stay 2D)
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 09:31 AM |
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Edited by RMZ1989 at 09:34, 12 Sep 2014.
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Dwarfurious said:
NACHOOOO said:
blizz said: I don't think 2 elf factions are too much at all, especially considering how different they are. Even in heroes 5 both factions felt unique.
Agreed. While sylvan and dungeon are both elves, they're very different gameplay wise. Bring back the hydra!
Different HOW? I see two races with high initiative, damage, frailer units, and strong magic. The Hydra and Treant are practically cousins in terms of being the token tanky unit.
You two are stating different things. Both of you are correct, they are similar stat wise, but your point isn't disputing his point at all. We didn't have Sylvan in H6, so I can compare them in H5.
In H5 Dungeon was very aggressive faction, with primary skills being Attack and destruction magic and they had the highest chance of getting those skills, together with Sorcery so they could cast spells as often as possible.
On the other hand, Sylvan was very defensive faction, with primary skills being Luck and Defense and very often Enlightenment(which was giving a lot of defense for them), they were mostly turtling with Dragons, Unicorns and Treants serving as meat shield while Druids and Archers were attacking from behind, they were usually the ones that are waiting for the enemy, even though they had high initiative(except if they are playing against other magic heavy caster faction that wants to starve you out in battle like Academy or Necropolis). And even though for Dungeon destruction was like mandatory, I've Sylvan with both destruction and light magic, and both are pretty good, depending on your playstyle and how many enemy units you have as favorite enemies etc. Hence, you could easily play Sylvan without spells while I don't think that it is possible for Dungeon.
So yeah, as I said, they look similar at first glance, but gameplay is quite different. As your comparison of Hydra and Treant, I agree that they are similar and have similar role(even though they are different tier) but I don't really understand why would Dungeon even need Hydra with such aggressive lineup. Most of the times you would know the winner(no matter if it is you or opponent) and Hydra wouldn't even be able to hit for 2-3 times, but I guess that every faction need some unit that should be defending Archers.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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odium
Known Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 11:09 AM |
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RMZ1989 said:
On the other hand, Sylvan was very defensive faction, with primary skills being Luck and Defense and very often Enlightenment(which was giving a lot of defense for them), they were mostly turtling with Dragons, Unicorns and Treants serving as meat shield while Druids and Archers were attacking from behind, they were usually the ones that are waiting for the enemy, even though they had high initiative(except if they are playing against other magic heavy caster faction that wants to starve you out in battle like Academy or Necropolis). .
If I remember correctly from my Heroes 5 multiplayer games, Sylvan was not defensive at all. Actually it was one of the most might offensive factions there were. Their principle was to have a very hard first blow on the opponent. If they managed to do enough damage in their first turn (dragons, dancers, pixies, unicorn and at some point hunters) they would win. The fact that defense was a favored skill, it does not mean it actually was the most useful in reality.
Regarding magic, Sylvan was more often than not using it a as a complement to increase its might power (light magic). Even tough there were some magic builds (destructive school build), they were not that common.
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adriancat
Famous Hero
Protector Of The Peace
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posted September 12, 2014 11:14 AM |
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odium said:
RMZ1989 said:
On the other hand, Sylvan was very defensive faction, with primary skills being Luck and Defense and very often Enlightenment(which was giving a lot of defense for them), they were mostly turtling with Dragons, Unicorns and Treants serving as meat shield while Druids and Archers were attacking from behind, they were usually the ones that are waiting for the enemy, even though they had high initiative(except if they are playing against other magic heavy caster faction that wants to starve you out in battle like Academy or Necropolis). .
If I remember correctly from my Heroes 5 multiplayer games, Sylvan was not defensive at all. Actually it was one of the most might offensive factions there were. Their principle was to have a very hard first blow on the opponent. If they managed to do enough damage in their first turn (dragons, dancers, pixies, unicorn and at some point hunters) they would win. The fact that defense was a favored skill, it does not mean it actually was the most useful in reality.
Regarding magic, Sylvan was more often than not using it a as a complement to increase its might power (light magic). Even tough there were some magic builds (destructive school build), they were not that common.
As a Sylvan fan and player, I fully agree to this. Sylvan had to use it's initiative, luck, speed and attack to make the necessary impact on the battle in the first turn. Light magic's mass spells were very useful. Ressurection (Pristine Unicorns and something else) with high spellpower from the High Druids was a good spell too. Luck/Logistics/Attack/Enlightement/Light was a pretty good combination of skills for a Ranger
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alex_yakub
Famous Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 11:39 AM |
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Ugh, the suspense is killing me (even though we all know who won )
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 11:45 AM |
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adriancat said:
odium said:
RMZ1989 said:
On the other hand, Sylvan was very defensive faction, with primary skills being Luck and Defense and very often Enlightenment(which was giving a lot of defense for them), they were mostly turtling with Dragons, Unicorns and Treants serving as meat shield while Druids and Archers were attacking from behind, they were usually the ones that are waiting for the enemy, even though they had high initiative(except if they are playing against other magic heavy caster faction that wants to starve you out in battle like Academy or Necropolis). .
If I remember correctly from my Heroes 5 multiplayer games, Sylvan was not defensive at all. Actually it was one of the most might offensive factions there were. Their principle was to have a very hard first blow on the opponent. If they managed to do enough damage in their first turn (dragons, dancers, pixies, unicorn and at some point hunters) they would win. The fact that defense was a favored skill, it does not mean it actually was the most useful in reality.
Regarding magic, Sylvan was more often than not using it a as a complement to increase its might power (light magic). Even tough there were some magic builds (destructive school build), they were not that common.
As a Sylvan fan and player, I fully agree to this. Sylvan had to use it's initiative, luck, speed and attack to make the necessary impact on the battle in the first turn. Light magic's mass spells were very useful. Ressurection (Pristine Unicorns and something else) with high spellpower from the High Druids was a good spell too. Luck/Logistics/Attack/Enlightement/Light was a pretty good combination of skills for a Ranger
I am really not sure about this, I mean you had like 6% chance to get attack with Sylvan, a lot of time you didn't even get it. You might be right but I've almost never played(and never played against) Sylvan that way, it is more about clever positioning and defense(as I stated except against Necro/Academy) then just rush into enemy like some other factions can do.
Combining Enlightenment with Master Defense is making your units nigh immortal to the normal attacks.
I also remember discussion on these forums about Dungeon being among the best rushy factions while Sylvan had the best end-game together with Academy. I know that Elvin and some others were talking about that.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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alex_yakub
Famous Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 11:52 AM |
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adriancat
Famous Hero
Protector Of The Peace
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posted September 12, 2014 11:55 AM |
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RMZ1989 said:
adriancat said:
odium said:
RMZ1989 said:
On the other hand, Sylvan was very defensive faction, with primary skills being Luck and Defense and very often Enlightenment(which was giving a lot of defense for them), they were mostly turtling with Dragons, Unicorns and Treants serving as meat shield while Druids and Archers were attacking from behind, they were usually the ones that are waiting for the enemy, even though they had high initiative(except if they are playing against other magic heavy caster faction that wants to starve you out in battle like Academy or Necropolis). .
If I remember correctly from my Heroes 5 multiplayer games, Sylvan was not defensive at all. Actually it was one of the most might offensive factions there were. Their principle was to have a very hard first blow on the opponent. If they managed to do enough damage in their first turn (dragons, dancers, pixies, unicorn and at some point hunters) they would win. The fact that defense was a favored skill, it does not mean it actually was the most useful in reality.
Regarding magic, Sylvan was more often than not using it a as a complement to increase its might power (light magic). Even tough there were some magic builds (destructive school build), they were not that common.
As a Sylvan fan and player, I fully agree to this. Sylvan had to use it's initiative, luck, speed and attack to make the necessary impact on the battle in the first turn. Light magic's mass spells were very useful. Ressurection (Pristine Unicorns and something else) with high spellpower from the High Druids was a good spell too. Luck/Logistics/Attack/Enlightement/Light was a pretty good combination of skills for a Ranger
I am really not sure about this, I mean you had like 6% chance to get attack with Sylvan, a lot of time you didn't even get it. You might be right but I've almost never played(and never played against) Sylvan that way, it is more about clever positioning and defense(as I stated except against Necro/Academy) then just rush into enemy like some other factions can do.
Combining Enlightenment with Master Defense is making your units nigh immortal to the normal attacks.
I also remember discussion on these forums about Dungeon being among the best rushy factions while Sylvan had the best end-game together with Academy. I know that Elvin and some others were talking about that.
It's not true about the defensive because Sylvan creatures have low HP and outside the Unicorns and Treants all of them die easily. That is why I think for Sylvan the attack strategy is better. And if you don't get attack, you can always get leadership
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 12:07 PM |
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You mean outside of Treants, Dragons and Unicorns, which is like 3 out of 7 creatures.
Hey I am just saying from my experience and from some videos of tournaments that were organized here, but I will gladly accept if I am wrong.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted September 12, 2014 12:18 PM |
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alex_yakub said: The site is live again!
Dead for me
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adriancat
Famous Hero
Protector Of The Peace
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posted September 12, 2014 12:18 PM |
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RMZ1989 said: You mean outside of Treants, Dragons and Unicorns, which is like 3 out of 7 creatures.
Hey I am just saying from my experience and from some videos of tournaments that were organized here, but I will gladly accept if I am wrong.
It isn't about right or wrong, it's about your playstyle. With Sylvan you can play offensive or defensive. I also enjoy playing defensive, especially when creeping,because Arcanes are the only and most powerful army you have when you "clear" the map.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted September 12, 2014 12:25 PM |
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Arcanes Archers were OP as hell. Friggin snipers were so annoying to play against
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted September 12, 2014 12:33 PM |
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Site is barely alive.
4 out of 5 times I can't even load it and there is nothing new on it after first vote is over. Isn't that a bit amateurish?
I expected some flavor page about the winner and maybe announcement of next vote or some concept art for possible units or city of the winner.
Im just a bit disappointed.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted September 12, 2014 12:35 PM |
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It loaded after the 7th time or so, absolutely terrible.
I guess they'll make a results news this afternoon (they better do!)
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adriancat
Famous Hero
Protector Of The Peace
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posted September 12, 2014 12:38 PM |
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Nothing new on the site..WTF ??
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Stormcaller
Famous Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 01:04 PM |
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Sylvan a defensive town?.... lol. Those elves know nothing of defense, their only good point is speed/initiative + luck.
And yeah, I still can't load their page since yesterday.
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What makes a King? Some say it is a birthright, while others call it a destiny.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 01:08 PM |
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Stormcaller said: Sylvan a defensive town?.... lol. Those elves know nothing of defense, their only good point is speed/initiative + luck.
And yeah, I still can't load their page since yesterday.
I don't think that you've played against good, defensive Sylvan with Expert Enlightenment, Expert Defense and Expert Light magic with Mass Endurance etc. You would change your mind.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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Stormcaller
Famous Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 01:28 PM |
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If you're playing Slyvan defensively, you're playing them the wrong way. They weren't meant to sit back and turtle.
Aside Treants they have no such units. Just because you can cast mass endurance + other light magic doesn't makes them a defensive race. Their primary advantage is speed and initiative, which means they're supposed to strike first and use their support abilities.
There's no reason to sit back them with them when you can buff them with mass righteous might and other offensive magic.
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What makes a King? Some say it is a birthright, while others call it a destiny.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 02:04 PM |
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Stormcaller said: If you're playing Slyvan defensively, you're playing them the wrong way. They weren't meant to sit back and turtle.
Aside Treants they have no such units. Just because you can cast mass endurance + other light magic doesn't makes them a defensive race. Their primary advantage is speed and initiative, which means they're supposed to strike first and use their support abilities.
There's no reason to sit back them with them when you can buff them with mass righteous might and other offensive magic.
If it works it isn't the wrong way. What if you don't even get those spells in the school?
There is literally zero reasons to go just for one build every game, have you even tried to play them with expert destruction? Casting 2-3 Chain Lightings/Deep Freezes/Implosions in one turn with Imbued arrows. I've actually seen this done a lot in those tournament videos and I've been doing this myself. Naturally if you go for Expert Destruction you won't have Expert Light at the same time and your units won't have high attack value to be very aggressive.
This isn't place for this discussion anyway, thread went way off topic.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 02:06 PM |
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