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| Thread: Remove direwolves from haven units |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted September 01, 2014 09:29 AM |
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ChrisD1 said:
VOKIALBG said:
Not really. But in this case - yes. Wolfs are nonsense in this town.
to a wolf duchy...
Actually, looking at reallife, I see Artu mentioned Turkey. Looking at the Netherlands, the animal that's the national symbol is actually a lion. Lions don't naturally occur in the Netherlands and never have  . To be honest, I don't know how it ended up being the national animal, should look that up some time.
But anyway, I kinda like the Wolf concept, even if it is really close to the Stark family in Game of Thrones. I wonder how this Haven faction will play ingame.
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VOKIALBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted September 01, 2014 09:40 AM |
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Edited by VOKIALBG at 09:45, 01 Sep 2014.
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ChrisD1 said:
VOKIALBG said:
They doesnt look heavenish.
again,WOLF duchy.
And the stag duchy have war stags? The unicorn duchy - unicorns? C'on... this is no argument.
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VOKIALBG said:
Wolfs cant be trained in such a way
if dragons can be trained as champion units, wolves can be trained as well.
Its very different. Dragons are mostly intelligent and have personality in fantasy. Wolfs are not. Also dragons were never part of the human town, they were with with the elfs, in the cave town, etc. And they were fighting for those nations for some reason. They were not "pets". Wolfs cant have reason.
MattII said:
Quote:
...and there are now good wolf in any folklore.
Except Roman, and Norse, and Mongolian, and Japanese, and Chechen, and (native) American. Please, if you're going to make a claim at least do your research first.
Yes, but humans in Heroes are inspirited by the medieval western europe (even if some of them have eastern names, they look and speak like western people of the medieval times). Their theme have nothing to do with Japan (nagas), Mongols (a little in orcs), Nordics (dwarfs), Roman (pagan rome inspirited partly Inferno), Chechens (they are maybe more in the Academy).
artu said:
As I said, they can represent power, too. I'm Turkish, the Turkic/Mongolian myth of Ergenekon, a gray wolf leading the people out of the mountain to spread around the realm is childhood tale to me. The hand gesture of the nationalists here, is still the head of "the" gray wolf
Turkey and its culture have nothing to do with medieval Europe, except the wars between them.
And I'm pretty much surprised that you posted the gray wolf symbol, which is kinda offending for some certain parts of the world.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted September 01, 2014 09:45 AM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 09:45, 01 Sep 2014.
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Quote:
And they were fighting for those nations for some reason. They were not "pets". Wolfs cant have reason.
These are fantasy wolves. Totes dif.
'Sides, if wolves can't have reason, how did they manage to be part of the Stronghold and Preserve armies of old?
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 01, 2014 09:58 AM |
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You guys are debating fantasy. There's no necessity for logic in fantasy.
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VOKIALBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted September 01, 2014 09:59 AM |
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Edited by VOKIALBG at 10:00, 01 Sep 2014.
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They were mounts in Stonghold.
Stevie said:
You guys are debating fantasy. There's no necessity for logic in fantasy.
But there must be at least partly, or its cheap.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted September 01, 2014 10:09 AM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 10:10, 01 Sep 2014.
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They weren't really mounts in H1, H2 and H4 though.
I agree that fantasy need a modicum of logic, at least internally.
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted September 01, 2014 10:14 AM |
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mvassilev said:
MattII said:
And it's about bloody time, the knights-in-armour routine was getting boring by H3.
You've got to have the Knights in Armor town. Any decent fantasy game will have them, otherwise it'd be missing out on an easy and appealing alignment design.
It's always just a cheap cop out for the "tutorial" faction. The seventh installment of Heroes could very well be without medieval knights, don't think it would get any less attention. They never really add any depth in gameplay and storytelling, because it always seems so obligatory.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted September 01, 2014 10:28 AM |
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What is the problem with tamed wolves. WE HAVE TAMED WOLVES EVEN NOW. Some of the most iconic dog breads are those that still have enough of a wolf in them to be feared. German Shepherd are loved for their wolf heritage. And even today breeds like Czechoslovakian Wolfdog which is a Direct breed of a German Shepherd and a Carpathian wolf, are created.
Humans. European Humans. Medieval European humans, the ones you talk about as the inspiration for Haven, have tamed, breed and used wolf related dog breeds for ages.
And even in fantasy, these creatures have more than often been associated with humans. Who ever played a Ranger and not wanted a Wolf or a Bear as his pet?
About the Wolfdog
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 01, 2014 11:00 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 11:16, 01 Sep 2014.
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VOKIALBG said:
And the stag duchy have war stags? The unicorn duchy - unicorns? C'on... this is no argument.
So a bunch of dukes can't be egotistical sods who want to appear 'more elite than though' by having their heraldic beast actually around on the battlefield rather than just a picture pinned to a shield?
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Yes, but humans in Heroes are inspirited by the medieval western europe (even if some of them have eastern names, they look and speak like western people of the medieval times).
And that means what? Nothing, it means absolutely bloody nothing. So what it things are different from what was actually believed in the middle ages, this is fantasy, we have dragons and angels, demons and creatures with tentacles, etc.
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And I'm pretty much surprised that you posted the gray wolf symbol, which is kinda offending for some certain parts of the world.
Really? Who's been offended?
VOKIALBG said:
But there must be at least partly, or its cheap.
I hate to sound critical, but that's a line JeremiahEmo would trot out to support sexism, in fact I think that's a reason he gave several times. Also, you're not arguing from a position of logic, simply opinion.
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Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
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posted September 01, 2014 11:45 AM |
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The more i read this post i think the only reason you guys don't like wolfs in haven lineup is cause they replaced griffins.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted September 01, 2014 11:54 AM |
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Wellplay said:
The more i read this post i think the only reason you guys don't like wolfs in haven lineup is cause they replaced griffins.
Yup, it pretty much sounds like it.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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VOKIALBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted September 01, 2014 12:09 PM |
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Edited by VOKIALBG at 12:15, 01 Sep 2014.
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Quote:
VOKIALBG said:
And the stag duchy have war stags? The unicorn duchy - unicorns? C'on... this is no argument.
So a bunch of dukes can't be egotistical sods who want to appear 'more elite than though' by having their heraldic beast actually around on the battlefield rather than just a picture pinned to a shield?
This is no argument. SO the stag duchy can have war stags and unicorn - war unicorns as Sylvan 
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Quote:
Yes, but humans in Heroes are inspirited by the medieval western europe (even if some of them have eastern names, they look and speak like western people of the medieval times).
And that means what? Nothing, it means absolutely bloody nothing. So what it things are different from what was actually believed in the middle ages, this is fantasy, we have dragons and angels, demons and creatures with tentacles, etc.
It means all in this point, because you are telling me your previous post that wolfs are whatever you were tell about Japan and etc.
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And I'm pretty much surprised that you posted the gray wolf symbol, which is kinda offending for some certain parts of the world.
Really? Who's been offended?
Read some history. You are from New Zealand. You probably know nothing about this. Showing this symbol to some people is like showing the nazi salute to a jew. This is neo-nazi organization.
Dave_Jame said:
What is the problem with tamed wolves. WE HAVE TAMED WOLVES EVEN NOW.
And still, its not pure wolf.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted September 01, 2014 12:31 PM |
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RMZ1989 said:
Wellplay said:
The more i read this post i think the only reason you guys don't like wolfs in haven lineup is cause they replaced griffins.
Yup, it pretty much sounds like it.
Me too...
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WOLF ETERNAL!! * Cast random spell *
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Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
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posted September 01, 2014 01:26 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
RMZ1989 said:
Wellplay said:
The more i read this post i think the only reason you guys don't like wolfs in haven lineup is cause they replaced griffins.
Yup, it pretty much sounds like it.
Me too...
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WOLF ETERNAL!! * Cast random spell *
WOLF ETERNAL!!
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 01, 2014 01:32 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 13:47, 01 Sep 2014.
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VOKIALBG said:
This is no argument. SO the stag duchy can have war stags and unicorn - war unicorns as Sylvan
We don't know much about those Duchies, but based on past information (well the story of H6) the Wolf Dukes seem entirely the sort of ruthless, egotistical individuals who'd actually give this a go.
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It means all in this point, because you are telling me your previous post that wolfs are whatever you were tell about Japan and etc.
No, it means nothing, n, o, t, h, i, n, g. We're not talking a historical culture here, we're talking an invented one, and whatever the inventor wants goes, and if you don't like it, tough biscuits.
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Read some history. You are from New Zealand. You probably know nothing about this. Showing this symbol to some people is like showing the nazi salute to a jew.
Give me one single example.
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This is neo-nazi organization.
No, it's a feudal society.
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And still, its not pure wolf.
And who says those hounds are pure wolves? Going by the picture they aren't, none of the dire-wolf skulls we've found have much in the way of a stop, that's a trait more like the grey-wolves and their descendants, leading me to suspect that these are in fact dogs bred to look like wolves, and thus much more biddable. Dire-wolves also lack any real shoulder hump.
There is exactly 0 reason to remove them, and I'd prefer it if they didn't, because Haven has had the exact same boring as hell vibes for far too long. A bit of variety every now and then is nice.
WOLF ETERNAL!!
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted September 01, 2014 04:19 PM |
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Edited by artu at 17:06, 01 Sep 2014.
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Quote:
Turkey and its culture have nothing to do with medieval Europe, except the wars between them.
And I'm pretty much surprised that you posted the gray wolf symbol, which is kinda offending for some certain parts of the world.
I was obviously pointing out, I already knew about wolves in folklore and it's traces are STILL in every day life. It's certainly not offensive when it's illustrative, not political. Add to this, everybody knows I'm not a nationalist, anyway. If I link a WW2 documentary on some discussion, will you be offended by the swastika? (Btw, it's not exactly a feudal society anymore, Matt. Although, there are still villages to some degree)
As I already said, personally, I don't think Haven and Wolves click but saying there are no good wolves in any folklore is wrong and irrelevant. Heroes is not only based on European myths and the factions mix various mythology/culture all the time: In H3, the Persian Manticore and the Greek Minatour are in the same town, so is the Hebrew Golem and the Arabic Genie. The Rampart town itself is Japanese while the units are Greek and Celtic. Dwarfs later depart from that and have their own faction in H5. I can go on and on...
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Rakshasa92
Supreme Hero
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posted September 08, 2014 06:22 PM |
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Wolves are nice for Animal Planet.
But in this fantasy game, please no real life animals.
Please.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted September 08, 2014 06:25 PM |
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It makes no sense to rule out animals in a Fantasy setting because "it's fantasy".
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Rakshasa92
Supreme Hero
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posted September 08, 2014 06:30 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
It makes no sense to rule out animals in a Fantasy setting because "it's fantasy".
Of all the cool wolf-like monsters in mythology, they go with real-life puppies.
It is just not original and boring in my opinion.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted September 08, 2014 06:48 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 18:49, 08 Sep 2014.
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Rakshasa92 said:
Of all the cool wolf-like monsters in mythology, they go with real-life puppies.
It is just not original and boring in my opinion.
Ok you go and tame a wolf we'll see how that turns out. On a more serious note, it fits with the Wolf Duchy storyline, is a good core and reasonable choice for medieval context, and gives us something else than griffins we had in H3, H5 and H6.
Now on a more personal note, I find H7 Haven's lineup pretty rough so far, and I like it.
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