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| Thread: What does this picture tell us about globalism? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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artu
Promising
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted August 21, 2014 03:03 PM |
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What does this picture tell us about globalism?
Russia Wants Bulgarians to Stop Vandalizing Soviet Monuments
Do you think it sucks that people paint over old monuments with comic book heroes? Do you think it's shallow or is it just sheer fun? On a cultural basis, is globalism overwhelmingly American or is it really a fusion of heritages?
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted August 21, 2014 03:24 PM |
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it is just pure vandalism. The ones responsible should have their hands chopped off. or clean up the mess they made and go and do some community service, like changing diapers to the elderly who needs it.
Globalist pieces of excrement have piled a massive campaign to dis rooskies in anyway imaginable. defacing monuments took this to a new low.
If Bulgaria didn't want soviet monuments, then they should've removed them from public places after USSR crumbled. Like we did. Instead they've left them there.
I personally don't agree with some of the monuments that are in here, however I do not go out and vandalise them, because they are like vandalism already.
We also have some disputed sculptures on a bridge. No one defaced them IIRC, but there's a heated debate over wether they should stay or not.
If they wanted to merge "modern" art and old fashioned, they should've done it like this:
By day, nothing spectacular. a monument depicting a farmer sowing grain ye olde style. and some stars spraypainted on the wall behind him.
And by night. something awesome. too bad the morons who run this city didn't think that way. The stars were painted over, ruining the wall altogether.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
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kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted August 21, 2014 03:31 PM |
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Edited by kayna at 15:34, 21 Aug 2014.
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Just some random vandalizing that doesn't deserve to be analyzed ( or blown out of proportions ) .
I find it funny though, a Russian created this monument filled with American made comic heroes? Lol. Russia was and is still painted as the enemy more often than not in those comics. Maybe the creator should make a huge statue of the red skull? hahaha! That monument makes me laugh hard.
Edit : Oh hm it was in Bulgaria. Well this is confusing. I really have no idea now. Only WTF comes to mind, unless someone can fully explain me why Russia would criticize the defacing a clearly American praising monument over there.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted August 21, 2014 03:59 PM |
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Of course, the vandalism itself is probably a random act, not a political manifestation. But it holds clues to a cultural trend. The people who wanted to paint them, spontaneously picked US comic heroes as their theme, they could have picked anything.
Btw, if you dont destroy it and transform it into something else, (it looks like the painter took his time, he didnt just brush them off), should it still be called vandalism or does it become some kind of artsy manifestation, automatically? It can still be wrong, but shouldnt this be called something else, isnt vandalism something more brute?
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JoonasTo
Responsible
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 21, 2014 06:23 PM |
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That is just awesome, totally deserves to be preserved. Brilliant!
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Nitramar
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 21, 2014 06:57 PM |
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Edited by Nitramar at 19:07, 21 Aug 2014.
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It's simultaneously both vandalism, a joke and an artistic as well as a political statement (regardless if it was a random act or not). I don't know if that has a name. Lose the vandalism part and I'm sure people would just call it art. I think it's mostly a publicity stunt (or maybe it's a drunken dare), but so is a large portion of contemporary art anyway.
I don't really see the difference between destroying a work of art and "transforming" it into something else. At the end of the transformation you have a new, different work of art and the old one is gone (either temporarily or permanently depending on whether the transformation can be reversed). Therefore, in this case, they have indeed "destroyed" the original, but it's probably temporary, since I'm sure that can be washed away. If you think it is not vandalism because of the fact that it can be reversed, would you call drawing a moustache on the Mona Lisa an act of vandalism, if it were as easy to restore as this? Or does the "value" matter? In this case, think it does.
One might think that it would be justifiable if the result were better than the original, but "better" is of course subjective. Then again, some (if not most) people feel that art is sacred and should not be touched. In that case it's more of a question of whether the original was art to begin with. That sculpture was created by a soviet artist basically for reasons of propaganda. That probably lowers its perceived value (except in Russia where it apparently increases it) and thereby also lowers the threshold of doing something like this. The people who did it probably didn't consider the original monument to be art, or at least art of any value.
Kip's example, in my opinion, is something different because it is using an old piece of art without actually modifying it. In a somewhat similar case, this year, some Japanese artist built a miniature hotel around a famouns sculpture in central Helsinki (the sculpture ended up standing in the middle of the hotel room bed). Some people were outraged even by that, but I think anything that doesn't cause harm to the original work and/or is reversible is only refreshing and quite welcome. Every now and then anyway.
On artu's original question: globalism is hardly american in any way (by definition: it's globalism after all) but popular culture and media (especially the Internet) is very heavily influenced by America. The choice of picking American comic book heroes is therefore natural because 1) comic book heroes vs. soviet "heroes" is funny and 2) American comic book heroes happen to be the most recognizable (are there even any non-American hero comics?).
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Geny
Responsible
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 21, 2014 07:07 PM |
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The original monument wasn't just art, it was a memorial for the brave people who fought in a war, so transforming it into something else is first and foremost vandalism because treads on their memory.
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Zenofex
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posted August 21, 2014 07:18 PM |
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The Russians probably wouldn't be so touchy about this if it hasn't happened several times so far.
The idea behind this thing is to quite deliberately show the finger to the Soviet times and what remains from them in the people's minds (which is quite a lot actually). There are however two problems. One is that you tell "**** you" to the former Big Brother by painting a monument with symbols which can (too) easily be associated with the current Big Brother. Which is quite pathetic. The other problem is the expression itself, which in this case is nothing short of vandalism. There have been many public discussions if the Soviet-era monuments should stay or be demolished and there is simply no decisive majority (or even loud enough minority) in favour of their removal - so they stay. What you have after that is normally some drunk kids or members of some of the pro-Western parties youth organizations playing smartasses.
By the way, this picture is relatively old. The newest painting of this monument was with the colours of the Ukrainian flag. No political pun intended.
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artu
Promising
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted August 21, 2014 07:24 PM |
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Nitramar said:
On artu's original question: globalism is hardly american in any way (by definition: it's globalism after all) but popular culture and media (especially the Internet) is very heavily influenced by America. The choice of picking American comic book heroes is therefore natural because 1) comic book heroes vs. soviet "heroes" is funny and 2) American comic book heroes happen to be the most recognizable (are there even any non-American hero comics?).
Well, the question emphasized "the cultural basis" so... I mean, China is an economic titan but can you name three Chinese singers instantly, can any of us?
And your question "are there even any non-American hero comics?" actually shows the cultural mark of America in globalism is massive. Of course, there are many non-American hero comics, but only locals know them.. All of us here, can recognize our local comic heroes but not each others, except, we can all recognize the American comic heroes and even have communication and small-talk over them, like "the black Spider-Man sucks, right!"
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Sal
Famous Hero
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posted August 21, 2014 07:29 PM |
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artu said:
can you name three Chinese singers instantly, can any of us?
Like Russia, China suffers and suffered from forced isolation, such many great talents wasted, in all domains. But now is over and is slowly but surely taking revenge.
For example Lang Lang, chinese pianist, is world wide considered as one of the greatest pianists alive, if not the greatest. And he is only 30.
So I can name 
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 21, 2014 07:34 PM |
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Edited by JoonasTo at 19:35, 21 Aug 2014.
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LOL
how about naruto, bleach and dragonball
or tintin, asterix and pink panther
face it, american comix suck ass
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artu
Promising
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted August 21, 2014 07:39 PM |
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Edited by artu at 19:44, 21 Aug 2014.
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@Sal
Classical music (and you being a professional performer, of course) is a little different, it's not exactly popular music, although, it brings forth popular figures every once in a while like Pavarotti or Yo-Yo Ma. It's target audience is usually higher profile and they seek and research music specifically. To an average person, all Mozart - Piano Concertos no. 20,& 21 cd's are quite the same, they don't usually even check the player, even if they may want to have a few classical albums as well.
@JoonasTO, there are exceptions, of course, mostly French or Spanish but those are usually a different generation, early to mid 20th century, when Europe culture was not this overshadowed by American culture.
(I also separate the anime/manga cult, that thing is a little different but I'm not sure if it spread directly from Japan or through America.)
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fred79
Disgraceful
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posted August 21, 2014 07:40 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 19:42, 21 Aug 2014.
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dragonball blows chunks, mayne. like, seriously. but yeah, many american comics do too. i was a big fan of ghost rider growing up, and the joker. venom, carnage, and morbius(the vampire) too. wolverine was the only good guy i could ever stand(besides ghost rider, and morbius  ). i think the truth is, MOST comics across the world suck ass.
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Nitramar
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 21, 2014 07:49 PM |
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Edited by Nitramar at 19:57, 21 Aug 2014.
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artu said:
Well, the question emphasized "the cultural basis" so... I mean, China is an economic titan but can you name three Chinese singers instantly, can any of us?
And your question "are there even any non-American hero comics?" actually shows the cultural mark of America in globalism is massive. Of course, there are many non-American hero comics, but only locals know them.. All of us here, can recognize our local comic heroes but not each others, except, we can all recognize the American comic heroes and even have communication and small-talk over them, like "the black Spider-Man sucks, right!"
Yes, American culture dominates the world and if you want to define some "global" culture then sure, a lot of it is American. I just understood the word "globalism" to mean something slightly different. When one culture dominates the global culture, it just sounds more like "global localization" than "globalization" to me. I did already say that American culture dominates popular culture and media, so we have the same points but use words differently once again (yes, I'm probably the one who understood the word wrong, and it's not surprising as my English is surely worse than yours).
@Joonas
Well, obvioudly I meant super hero comics, although I guess you could argue (and I would have to agree) that Asterix is a kind of super hero (though Tintin/pink pather are hardly that)  .
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artu
Promising
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted August 21, 2014 07:52 PM |
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Edited by artu at 19:53, 21 Aug 2014.
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Tintin counts as a super hero, he doesn't have special powers, no, but then again neither has Batman.
(Thank you btw, now I feel like I'm beamed into some The Big Bang Theory episode.)
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 21, 2014 07:52 PM |
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Possibly because no one else but the americans do super hero comics? 
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Zenofex
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Kreegan-atheist
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posted August 21, 2014 07:59 PM |
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Quote:
Yes, American culture dominates the world and if you want to define some "global" culture then sure, a lot of it is American.
Assuming that the Americans have a culture , you first have to prove that "the world" means something more than North America + the bigger part of Europe, I'd say.
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Nitramar
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 21, 2014 08:02 PM |
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Edited by Nitramar at 20:03, 21 Aug 2014.
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artu said:
Tintin counts as a super hero, he doesn't have special powers, no, but then again neither has Batman.
Yes but Tintin doesn't have a mission to fight bad guys, he just runs into them and is left with no choice. Also, most of the time, he beats them largely by luck and help from others whereas Batman is actually a skilled fighter himself (not saying Tintin can't throw a punch though) .
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artu
Promising
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted August 21, 2014 08:08 PM |
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Well, where does the super part begin, I'm not so sure. Tintin gets through dozens of guards, dodges lots a bullets etc but it's a little different because Tintin is also humorous. But are many earlier examples of the genre such as the Phantom, Zorro, Mister No.. etc just heroes or super heroes? Or do we really need super powers?
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Nitramar
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 21, 2014 08:16 PM |
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Edited by Nitramar at 20:19, 21 Aug 2014.
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I think it's mostly about the "big picture". Tintin comics, while often featuring fighting against criminals, are mostly about adventure. Batman comics are mostly about actually fighting the bad guys. That's where I'd draw the line.
Zenofex said:
Assuming that the Americans have a culture , you first have to prove that "the world" means something more than North America + the bigger part of Europe, I'd say.
Good point and also reminded me that original American influence only targets the most recent (and probably least important) parts of culture (small details) even in this part of the world. After all, the most basic ways in which we live, eat, think and entertain ourselves predate Columbus by some thousand years .
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