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Nuriel
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 07, 2015 07:53 PM |
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Edited by Nuriel at 22:38, 07 Apr 2015.
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@Verriker
"Something Original"? I didn't know that Jon van Caneghem invented space fantasy 
@LizardWarrior
While I don't have any problems with reading large parts of text like some other members of this community , I unfurtunately don't have enough time right now to make a proper response 
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted April 07, 2015 07:57 PM |
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Well, I surely won't deny originality in gameplay, but really, for me there's not much special about Ancient universe's lore. Just like you can go saying that Erwan rips off from Warcraft or LotR, I can also say that the old universe rips off from Star Trek or Dungeons & Dragons, for example. 
Hmn... Demons aren't exactly generic, as they also present some philosophy behind them, like all of Ashan's factions - the concept of absolute freedom. That being said, you're probably not interested in listening to that, so instead I'll just give you the statement I give to everyone who compares Kha-Beleth to Sauron - Kha-Beleth at least has a personality. 
Edit: You know, read everything under 'Video Games' section of this page, then you can talk about how original the old setting is.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted April 07, 2015 08:02 PM |
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At least D&D is a boardgame, not a videogame
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted April 07, 2015 08:10 PM |
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Sligneris said:
to everyone who compares Kha-Beleth to Sauron - Kha-Beleth at least has a personality.
So does Sauron, if you are dedicated and insane enough to read thousands of pages of extras and LotR lore. I didn't obviously, so I'm not huge expert, but I generaly know, what's it about.
And NO. You just DID NOT compare Ashan lore to LotR  It's well and all, if you like it, but come on. That's like comparing a plot of "Jada Fire Is SquirtWoman 3" to Shakespear's "Romeo and Juliet". It does NOT compare! It's one thing to discuss old universe vs new universe, but LotR ... NO ... Just NO. I don't care HOW MUCH you like Ashan.
That said, I did enjoy Jada Fire Is SquirtWoman 3 on whole diferent level than Romeo and Juliet 
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted April 07, 2015 08:13 PM |
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
And NO. You just DID NOT compare Ashan lore to LotR It's well and all, if you like it, but come on. That's like comparing a plot of "Jada Fire Is SquirtWoman 3" to Shakespear's "Romeo and Juliet". It does NOT compare! I don't care HOW MUCH you like Ashan.
That said, I did enjoy Jada Fire Is SquirtWoman 3 on whole diferent level than Romeo and Juliet
Is LotR really such a masterpiece? Their orcs seemed pretty dull, to be honest... Neither did the plot feel very complex.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted April 07, 2015 08:22 PM |
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Sligneris said:
Is LotR really such a masterpiece? Their orcs seemed pretty dull, to be honest... Neither did the plot feel very complex.
and lo, mine prophesy cometh to pass, for truly the disciples of Asha know not when the joke goes too far lol
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 07, 2015 08:23 PM |
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
That's like comparing a plot of "Jada Fire Is SquirtWoman 3" to Shakespear's "Romeo and Juliet". It does NOT compare!
Yeah, I mean, one's a story about how a 16 year old and a 12 year old who only knew each other for 3 days were "destined to be together" and killed them selves, the other is about how a woman brings pleasure to the world with some intermittent water flow. Two completely different stories, they can't compare. 
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted April 07, 2015 08:25 PM |
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No one beats Titus Andronicus, by master Shakespeare himself 
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted April 07, 2015 08:29 PM |
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Quote:
I mean, one's a story about how a 16 year old and a 12 year old who only knew each other for 3 days were "destined to be together" and killed them selves
Heh, the "masterpieces" these days... or those days, should I say. Sometimes I feel like this one would hardly stand out in modern times and is popular mostly because it's old, and written by a popular author.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted April 07, 2015 08:42 PM |
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Edited by kiryu133 at 20:43, 07 Apr 2015.
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Sligneris said:
Heh, the "masterpieces" these days... or those days, should I say. Sometimes I feel like this one would hardly stand out in modern times and is popular mostly because it's old, and written by a popular author.
it's not necessarily about quality as much as it is about legacy. say what you will about Tolkien but all fantasy today owe everything to him.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted April 07, 2015 08:50 PM |
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Sligneris said:
Heh, the "masterpieces" these days... or those days, should I say. Sometimes I feel like this one would hardly stand out in modern times and is popular mostly because it's old, and written by a popular author.
Dude, read any book by Victor Hugo, then read Twilight or Fifty Shades of Grey and you will see the difference
Fifty Shades of Grey=120 days of Sodom for kids (frankly, I don't recommend any of these books )
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted April 07, 2015 08:53 PM |
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Quote:
it's not necessarily about quality as much as it is about legacy. say what you will about Tolkien but all fantasy today owe everything to him.
This one actually was about Shakespeare... to whom we owe much more, so it makes your argument even more valid, I suppose.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted April 07, 2015 08:58 PM |
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"Romeo and Juliet" was popularized by the media as the "perfect love story", yet they seem to forget the important parts when claiming this
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted April 07, 2015 09:50 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
At least D&D is a boardgame, not a videogame
I don't to be too nitpicky, and as in every characterization of genres the borders are very vague, but at least in my book, D&D, in it's original form, is not a board game. True there many board games and video games based on D&D and other similar game systems, but first and foremost D&D is an RPG - a guideline for a large variety of more complex make-believe pastimes.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted April 07, 2015 09:54 PM |
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Sligneris said:
This one actually was about Shakespeare... to whom we owe much more, so it makes your argument even more valid, I suppose.
yeah, it kind of encompasses both. I just went more directly with Tolkien as an example since you specifically didn't find his stuff good earlier.
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted April 07, 2015 09:59 PM |
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Nah, Tolkien's work is very good, even great. I just wasn't sure if I'd call it a 'masterpiece'.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted April 07, 2015 10:16 PM |
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It's a masterpiece. LotR pretty much set up the modern fantasy genre on its own. That doesnt mean that the plot isnt basic but it doesnt mean it's bad.
LizardWarrior said:
At least D&D is a boardgame, not a videogame
it has several videogames actually, dating back to 1975. Not like it's relevant though, just because it's another genre doesnt make many of the H3 units any less a ripoff, visually.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted April 07, 2015 11:12 PM |
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Sligneris said:
Nah, Tolkien's work is very good, even great. I just wasn't sure if I'd call it a 'masterpiece'.
But if it was not for Tolkien Ashan would not exist.
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted April 07, 2015 11:33 PM |
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The story of LotR itself isn't anything that special - it is good tho - but what is more important is all the worlds and backstories and "lore" Tolkien created. He established the "borring" Orcs. I don't think they are that borring tho, since they have been copied and became one of the base races in almost all fantasy settings.
It was Tolkien's "fandom", which created D&D and Warhammer, the basis on which all later PC RPG's and Fantasy strategy games like Warcraft are based. It's not so much about the story of Frodo, but more about the "Middle Earth", that is the influential part. True ... Tolkien may not be Shakespeare when it comes to the story and dialogue writing ... but still. Not many things are. So yea, I would say LotR is a masterpiece.
Now I'm not saying Ashan should be on par with that, nor would I expect it to be. I would say, that personaly, since this is a strategy game, story does not even need to be anything special. And surprise. It isn't. That said, campaign story isn't even as terrible as some people make it to be. It's totaly passable. But the lore or backstory of Ashan world ... could make a litle more sese.
How did the Ubi guys come up with morbid budhists that worship spiders and live in sumerian / egyptian style town? My theroy is that in France, they smoke some realy hard stuff. And I wish to get my hands on that myself ... Maybe Galaad could hook me up
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 07, 2015 11:35 PM |
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Gryphs said:
But if it was not for Tolkien Ashan would not exist.
Then our goal is clear. We must kill Tolkien before he wrote anything, so tgat Ashan seems more original.
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This thread is pages long: 
