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| Thread: We need a mod for Spell Balancing |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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darkdill
Hired Hero
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posted September 06, 2014 11:07 PM |
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We need a mod for Spell Balancing
Though there's plenty of mods that alter creatures and other mechanics, I haven't found any that alter how spells work in the game.
See, when you get into Legion-level battles between heroes, spells like Inferno and Implosion suck (even if you have over 50 Spell Power), while Slow and Curse (and the like) are insane. Part of this is due to the crappy Expert-level bonuses that damage spells get. Minor bonus damage to Magic Arrow for being an Expert? That sucks. Mass Haste? That's kickass.
In essence, I'd love to see a mod that rebalances spells in the game, if that's at all possible. Making the damage spells more useful in big battles, while perhaps nerfing some of the uber-buff spells to be more reasonable, would be a good place to start.
(Note that I am completely clueless on how to make mods for HOMM3. Think of this as a request.)
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Sal
Famous Hero
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posted September 07, 2014 06:33 AM |
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Edited by Sal at 07:16, 07 Sep 2014.
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darkdill said:
Though there's plenty of mods that alter creatures and other mechanics, I haven't found any that alter how spells work in the game.
Read mods descriptions one by one and you will find.
Spells alteration. If you seek for Armageddons doing 5 million damage, super slow, hypnotize entire stacks, this is for you.
Another one altering spells. More subtle alterations, + % per turn and action.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted September 07, 2014 02:12 PM |
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Sal said:
Read mods descriptions one by one and you will find.
Spells alteration. If you seek for Armageddons doing 5 million damage, super slow, hypnotize entire stacks, this is for you.
Since you mentioned a single map mod when he was obviously looking for a generic mod to use with random maps and keeping the make a wich spirit from his other thread, I wanted to ask what is your disponibility to look at your own maps and think about porting part of your master scripts to separate mods?
Not thinking about a one million damage spell but every now and then I try to make the weekly Emerald Tower to work and it always has some malfunctions also the convert town and convert dwelling could be funny and (maybe) the 14 days respawn. Also, I think this is done in TDS but I'm not sure, an option to let Commanders learn all skills.
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Sal
Famous Hero
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posted September 07, 2014 02:17 PM |
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I see no interest to do a generic mod allowing only spells altering. Such things destroy the original game's balance thus should be only applied to specific maps or mods, where creatures, Heroes and other parameters as well are modified.
But the mechanics are out there, for those who want to continue work and make a generic mod. Such thing has simply no interest for me.
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AlfWithCake
Known Hero
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posted September 07, 2014 07:12 PM |
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A mod that changes spells does exist, but all spell descriptions are in russian language thus I doubt you will be able to use it. Moreover, if you are looking for a way to kill legions with a single armageddon, this mod won't suit you, spell damage isn't changed that much.
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malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted September 11, 2014 06:32 PM |
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Regarding to the community, spells and skills deserve balance, but nobody is working on a common purpose which satisfy everybody. I m watching for those people who create topic then leave with deception, cause their SOD is lacking patchs/balances, cause the mind of video game is probably squeeze under graphic constraint.
I would like well, as you, a smooth update, regrouping small things in their own domains, with lot of experimented players.
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Sal
Famous Hero
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posted September 11, 2014 07:36 PM |
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And in english, what that gives?
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted September 15, 2014 04:07 PM |
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Not a Mod... a rework for spells in hota, also buff of water- and firemagic, +some level 5 water skills.
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted September 15, 2014 04:15 PM |
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My plan to balance magic usage in game, especially aimed at random maps:
- Add a number of spells, especially 5th level spells which are now either weak, useless or banned (Fly, DD). This way Slow won't be the one and only usable spell in game - partilaly done
- Add artifacts which boost spell effects and spell points - done
- Add adventure map buildings which give bonus to spell effects, similiar to nodes from TETW4
- Add common pickable objects which restore spell points
- Boost hero magic specialties, now they are rather pathetic
____________
The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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Sal
Famous Hero
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posted September 15, 2014 04:23 PM |
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And destructive spells on adventure map, only available to high level mages. Something like a meteor shower on crag hack, percentage of army gone.
Mages should be able to avoid physical combat. Probably not very interesting for multiplayer though.
Bad for rankings. 
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted September 15, 2014 07:45 PM |
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Sal said:
And destructive spells on adventure map, only available to high level mages. Something like a meteor shower on crag hack, percentage of army gone...
They have that on Age of Wonders. I didn't liked to use it, it's useful but it takes some fun from the fights. If you want to avoid combat something like Heroes IV Mire would do the trick.
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fester
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 15, 2014 08:25 PM |
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I long felt that it be cool if h3 had creatures with spells like some creatures in h4 has...
That and just more new spells in general
Its like the one thing that remains unchanged through all mods
Maybe some mod that only lets good creatures/factions cast "good" spells, evil are restricted to "evil" (ie weaken /inflict cancer/malicuous stuff etc etc) and so on... AND broaden those "schools with more spells. Inferno is chaos ... not alot of fire armageddon stuff and blah so. I think people get the idea...
Sure there is genies and such but its still waaay to limited concept in h3.
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted September 15, 2014 09:04 PM |
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Edited by phe at 20:57, 22 Sep 2014.
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Maybe something like this:
Instead of making spells more powerfull we should increase the mana cost for casting on numerous stacks for non offensive spells like Bless, Slow, Haste, Precision, Shields, Stone Skin, Disrupting Ray, Protections from Elements, Cure, Blind, Dispell, Curse, Bloodlust, Luck, Misfortune, Antimagic, Weakness, Forgetfullness, Teleport, Mirth, Frenzy, Sorrow, Prayer, Clone, Slayer, Berserk, Counterstrike, Magic Mirror, Dimension Door, Town Portal, Fly, Water Walk. It always seemed too good to cast Expert Shield on legions at 1 mana point cost (by presence of creature reducing spell casting).
So on example of Shield:
[stack size/(spell points cost of Basic Shield/Expert Shield)]
[Few(5/3)]
[Several(10/6)]
[Pack(15/9)]
[Lots(20/12)]
[Horde(25/15)]
[Throng(30/18)]
[Swarm(35/21)]
[Zounds(40/24)]
[Legion(45/27)]
every next thousend alike
every total casting cost minus creatures' bonus reducing spell casting, however this bonus could now be greater depending on stack size and experience
It looks reasonable for casting on high level creatures. For the lower lever creatures increase of mana cost should start from stacks size of Lots, Horde, Throng etc.
Genies, Enchanters and Sorceresses would be stronger that way because of free cast spelling; Mages and Magic Elementals by reduction of spell casting; Silver Pegasi by increase of enemy's spell casting.
Hero classes like: Cleric, Druid, Wizard, Heretic, Necromancer, Warlord, Battle Mage, Witch, Elementalist would be stronger. If it is not enough to balance them with Knights, Warriors counterparts we could give them bonus of reduction of spell casting (for example 25% of total spell casting cost. Heroes of this kind of spells speciality could have further cost reduction bonuses.
Experience in casting for offensive spells, Animate Dead, Resurrection and Summon Elementals --> for every 10 casts of spell extra 1% effect increase
For other spells increased effect depending on number of casts (for every spell different).
or something alike
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 02:40 PM |
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Phe, that looks almost impossible to code and it would give so many balancing issues it would take another 15 years to test and adjust but is a very interesting ideia.
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Sal
Famous Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 03:17 PM |
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Is not so hard to code, but it clearly invalidate the existing custom maps. Then the new top skills to get will become intelligence and mysticism. Then the random generator must be adjusted as early battles will be very different within his settings, some even impossible.
Theories.
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted September 21, 2014 05:38 PM |
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Edited by phe at 23:49, 22 Sep 2014.
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BloodSucker said:
Phe, that looks almost impossible to code and it would give so many balancing issues it would take another 15 years to TEST and adjust but is a very interesting ideia.
The most important thing for balance would be that that all players (human and AI) would have these bonuses and similar enemies like so far.
Sal said:
Is not so hard to code, but it clearly invalidate the existing custom maps. Then the new TOP skills to get will become intelligence and mysticism. Then the random generator must be adjusted as early battles will be very different within his settings, some even impossible.
Early battles would hardly change because of small stacks in our army and small casting experience (no extra cost, no bonuses) so existing RMG's maps would be ok, in later battles too.
Intelligence and Misticism meaning would significantly rise. Wisdom and Logistics are also very necessary for every hero.
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Sal
Famous Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 05:49 PM |
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Edited by Sal at 17:51, 21 Sep 2014.
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phe said:
Early battles would hardly change because of small stacks in our army and small casting experience (no bonuses) so existing RMG's maps would be ok, in later battles too.
No. This is where MP experience plays. When you don't play online, you extrapolate from single experience, where there is no hurry and the game is sugar coated.
Take some of the most played heroes in MP: Shakti and Ivor. With your spell costs, a godly hero as Shakti now will be unable to haste his trogs. While a hero as Ivor will have a huge advantage because few gran elves but much better units.
We talk about starting armies here.
Factions as tower, where the lvl 1 units were the main force for week 1, will be penalized. Factions as fortress where you get wiverns day 2 will shine.
So there must be adjustments to your theories, not based only on level or number, but also on HP, attack, damage and speed.
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted September 21, 2014 06:18 PM |
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Edited by phe at 19:21, 21 Sep 2014.
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Sal said:
phe said:
Early battles would hardly change because of small stacks in our army and small casting experience (no bonuses) so existing RMG's maps would be ok, in later battles too.
No. This is where MP experience plays. When you don't play online, you extrapolate from single experience, where there is no hurry and the game is sugar coated.
Take some of the most played heroes in MP: Shakti and Ivor. With your spell costs, a godly hero as Shakti now will be unable to haste his trogs. While a hero as Ivor will have a huge advantage because few gran elves but much better units.
We talk about starting armies here.
Factions as tower, where the lvl 1 units were the main force for week 1, will be penalized. Factions as fortress where you get wiverns day 2 will shine.
So there must be adjustments to your theories, not based only on level or number, but also on HP, attack, damage and speed.
My table is for 7-10th level units.
for lower levels incraese of spell casting cost would begin from stacks size of:
level/stack size
6th/11 getting 11 Wyverns is going to take couple of weeks
5th/21
4th/51
3rd/101
2nd/250
1st/500 Shakti and Tower heroes won't get so many so soon, so they could use Haste like usual
Increase of spell casting cost is low. We can adjust numbers to needs and make them float.
I think most of the games even in MP will be ok
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 08:18 PM |
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phe said:
getting 11 Wyverns is going to take couple of weeks
More like 10 days, less then seven on Jebus.
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted September 21, 2014 08:59 PM |
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Edited by phe at 21:01, 21 Sep 2014.
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bloodsucker said:
phe said:
getting 11 Wyverns is going to take couple of weeks
More like 10 days, less then seven on Jebus.
We can set these steps of numbers as we like and as it is good for game. If not 11 units then 20 units etc.
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