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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted November 05, 2014 12:45 AM |
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"Defensive dungeon" is a relative term. Depending on the Heroes' stats, Shield of Darkness will probably still have an offensive leaning.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted November 05, 2014 01:28 AM |
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blizzardboy said:
I think moving gargoyles to dungeon would have been better though
+100000000000000000000000000
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jeremiahemo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted November 05, 2014 01:37 AM |
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A better story and lineup for Dungeon
Dungeon – Ygg Chall is now the home to a new race called the Shadow. Similar to the Dark Elves, they’re tall, slender, and have pointy ears. They are also cunning, devious and usually, not to be trusted. They are the master of stealth, poison, destructive magic and they enslave lesser creatures. However, there are a lot of things Shadows are different from the Dark Elves. One, they were never Elves. They may be slender but they’re usually lean and more muscular. Their ears are smaller. Their skin is purple and their hair is usually short. They never age, or, not outward at least. They are quite good-looking for human standard. They are very mysterious. No one has seen a female Shadow before. Some say they reproduce asexually. It is probably the reason why Shadows have low population rate. It is somewhat a tradeoff because Shadows are usually superior in fighting compared to many other races.
Malassa once tried to conquer their homeland and planned to become their deity but she got literally torn to shreds by the Dark Shades. The Shadows enslaved lesser creatures like the Troglodytes, Raptors and Manticores. They convinced the Dark Shades to fight for them. The Faceless however, willingly offered their assistance to them after Malassa’s demise. They built a thriving empire in the caves of Ygg Chall under the leadership of Emperor Xion. It is common sense for any foreign race not to enter Ygg Chall unless they have a Shadow ally they fully trust. Everyone knows, however, that putting your full trust on a Shadow is like climbing a mountain with one strand of hair for a rope.
Core
1. Troglodyte/Chthonian – when the Shadows conquered them, the Troglodyte chief bowed down and begged Xion not to exterminate them. Xion made the right choice as Troglodytes and Chthonians proved to be very useful in the Shadow’s army. Troglodytes are very sturdy. They are the exact definition of tankers. When they become Chthonians, they have this aura to reduce any nearby creature’s movement speed, friendly or unfriendly by 1 tile. Melee, Foot Walker
2. Raptor/Velociraptor – Raptors are another race conquered by the Shadows. Raptors are easily killed but they can claw or bite their way to even the strongest armor. They are very fast. So fast that they can attack and return to the position they were in. Velociraptors are even faster. They cannot be retaliated due to their speed. Melee, Mounted Walker
3. Beholder/Evil Eye – these eyes are gifts from the Faceless when the joined the Shadow’s army. Beholders and Evil Eyes can shoot eye beams to opponents from a distance. Due to their empowered field of vision, they can see anyone even in hide mode. Evil Eyes has the Mind Probe ability. Target enemy will suffer 15% more damage from all sources. Only one target may suffer from Mind Probe at a time. Range, Flier
Elite
4. Assassin/Rogue – Shadows who doesn’t want to pursue magic turns to stealth, poison and assassination. Assassins are mostly the reason why travelers fear traveling through Ygg Chall. They comprise the largest portion of the Shadows’ population. They are also the most untrustworthy among the Shadows. They can meld in the shadows for a specific number of turns. They gain 25% more damage when they attack from hide mode. When they become Rogues, they have the ability to poison any opponent they touch. Melee, Foot Walker
5. Manticore/Scorpicore – as strong as they may be, even the mighty Manticores fell to the Shadows. The Manticores swore allegiance after their defeat. Manticores are strong. They have a chance to paralyze any target they hit with their tail, thus stunning them for one turn. Scorpicores has reflexes to attack any unfriendly creature adjacent to them that suffers damage. Melee, Flier
6. Magister/Blood Brother – Magisters are Shadow men who knows everything about Shadows’ laws. They are in charge of electing a new Emperor each time the old one has fallen. In battle, they throw dark balls of energy. They are very strong for librarians. Stronger Magisters become Blood Brothers. Their expertise in dark destructive magic and curses makes them one of the biggest assets in battle. Range, Foot Walker
Champion
7. Dark Shade/Death Shadow – once attacked by a Dark Shade, the target will acquire a random curse. However, only one curse is activated at a time. Dark Shades and Death Shadows are fast, deadly and can pass through any obstacle. They are the shape of a shadow with glowing yellow eyes. There is no guarantee to hit them when attacking with non magical attacks. Melee, Walker
8. Faceless/Faceless Puppeteer – Faceless can enter the shadow and go out through another one. This means, they can teleport. They have the attack and return ability without retaliation. Unlike the Raptors, their attack and return is through teleportation. Therefore, obstacles are not a problem. When they become Faceless Puppeteers, they can temporarily control a stack and damage it for 2 turns. Melee, Teleporter
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jackson
Known Hero
Random Spirit Lover
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posted November 05, 2014 01:40 AM |
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Galaad said:
blizzardboy said:
I think moving gargoyles to dungeon would have been better though
+100000000000000000000000000
I agree with this as well.
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted November 05, 2014 04:27 AM |
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Hmmf. The nerve. What do these people take me for?
If Ubisoft thinks showing me a picture of an exceedingly attractive medusa is going to change my mind, well, then they were right.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted November 05, 2014 05:01 AM |
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Edited by Kimarous at 05:01, 05 Nov 2014.
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I'm growing increasingly fond of the Strider now that is has been revealed to be the puppet of an unseen Faceless. If the Faceless are to get involved in battle at all, I'd much rather see them using an avatar, rather than directly getting involved in battle where they risk getting killed. They are a dying race / endangered species, after all.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted November 05, 2014 05:37 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 05:34, 06 Nov 2014.
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Some thougts
Troglodyte
The burrowing ability has the upside of offering some fresh gameplay while bringing back good old Troggie. On top of it they are tanks, another welcomed change, allowing them to protect other shooter/s.
Assassin
Not much to say, classic assassin, hit-and-run, backstab, looks like a good advantage regarding the fact that we'll have a flanking system this time.
Stalker
Piercing shot ability, what else to say, those are strong units.
Lurker
Ranged and saboteur ? And they remind of the Beholder, how to say no to them.
Nightmare
JollyJoker said:
Errm, Nightmare IN ASHAN, thematically fits to MALASSA, not to Urgash, so Nightmare in Dungeon is logical (it's a Dark Magic thing.
That it should be a warped Unicorn is somewhat silly, though, since Unicorns are generally known for their resistance against harmful magic, so the Nightmares get a nod, but the Shadow Unicorn is *blergh*.
Fair enough.
Faceless
In H6 I ranked this unit to the same level as Glories : boring, and poorly designed units. I would find him much more interesting if his ability to teleport was unique feature to the creature.
Strider
Definitely deserves a chance. Saboteur with debuffing ability looks very interesting, especially alongside some powerful shooter or iconic flyer. It's a new unit and I hope that the artwork won't be disappointing, because so far this unit looks like a much more interesting change to Dungeon than was Faceless or Matriarch, and even though I would by all means prefer to discover a new mythological unit, I still find them more appealing than its puppeteer.
Medusa
Apart from the Queens being back there, they feature in only one lineup and are the only Elite ranged unit of all the proposals. Something to consider.
Manticore, Minotaur, Black Dragon, Hydra
Iconic beasts of the faction since forever, nothing more is needed to say.
Also,
Hydras H2 inspired = Total Win.
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drusain
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 05, 2014 08:01 AM |
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The "disrupt and negate magic" aspect of the strider reminds me of the "Shatter Magic" lines from H5 stronghold. It delevelled your magic school, slowed your casting times down, and really made you magic power plummet. I never actually took the skills on my campaign heroes, but I did see just how frustrating it was to fight against in the Necro campaign where you had that one optional Stronghold town you "weren't supposed" to take and had hundreds and hundreds of cyclops. Even as a high level, expert Dark Magic user, it was really a pain for the Stronghold hero to have so many debuffs to my Dark Magic. If the Strider can replicate any of what Shatter Magic did, I'm really eager to it in gameplay.
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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted November 05, 2014 08:07 AM |
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Nooooooooo!
We've lost a percent. People are losing faith and going over to Blade.
36/33/31
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properkheldar
Famous Hero
Keeper of books
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posted November 05, 2014 08:17 AM |
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Kimarous said:
We've lost a percent. People are losing faith and going over to Blade.
36/33/31
Reality, as we know it, is coming to an end.
Faith in humanity forever lost.
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"Man spends his life in reasoning on the past, in complaining of the present, in fearing future."
- Antoine Rivarol
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Kronos1000
Promising
Supreme Hero
Fryslân Boppe
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posted November 05, 2014 08:33 AM |
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Kimarous said:
We've lost a percent. People are losing faith and going over to Blade.
36/33/31
Faces, stay strong you can do this! In the ideal world Faces and Shield go to the next round, but that seems unlikely now.
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Hwær cwom mearg? Hwær cwom mago?
Hwær cwom maþþumgyfa? - 'The Wanderer'
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 05, 2014 09:22 AM |
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Edited by Maurice at 09:23, 05 Nov 2014.
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jeremiahemo said:
They may be slender but they’re usually lean and more muscular. ... They are very mysterious. No one has seen a female Shadow before. Some say they reproduce asexually.
I'm getting seriously tired of this constant yapping against females. Is there a way to ban this misogynist troll, or block messages from it on a personal level so I don't have to read its constant drivel?
Kimarous said:
We've lost a percent. People are losing faith and going over to Blade.
36/33/31
I've noticed that Blades has been slowly growing ever since someone mentioned that vote cheating was still possible. I really wonder if their numbers are being bloated by fake votes, causing them to drop considerally once those are removed?
In any case, I wonder if they wouldn't have better set up the vote to vote for the lineup to drop out - the one that's least favorite. This is something I assumed they would do before we actually got to vote. I know it focusses on the negative that way, but the distribution would be a great deal different, I think. The point is that while 36% of the people currently vote for Blades, there might be as many as 64% of the people who would have Blades only as their third option.
Of course, the same can be said for Faces and Shield, but the vibe I'm getting so far from reading the comments is that people are either pro-Blades, or pro-Faces and pro-Shield. As such, the people who would vote against Blades have distributed their pro-votes across the other two lineups.
Furthermore, I also wonder why they're showing us the numbers before the voting is done and also why we're allowed to change our votes. This way, people are getting swayed to vote for something else than what they'd really like - simply because they think that, based on the numbers shown, their favorite isn't going to win. If enough people start to think that way, it for sure isn't going to win. Take a look at voting in reallife: there can be a lot of polls, but the actual results are only revealed after the voting is concluded. Furthermore, you cannot change your vote. In contrast, in such reallife voting, you usually get some campaigns for each of the options, trying to win you over to their side before the vote is actually opened. Why couldn't they have done something similar here?
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 05, 2014 09:30 AM |
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Edited by Stevie at 09:40, 05 Nov 2014.
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Hey Kimaros, remember our gender discussion? Meroe is female. 
Although you should've been able to tell yourself, it's not that hard to figure out.
@Maurice: Because it's better that way. We don't get the line-up information prior to voting, we get it at the same time. So while you might vote a line-up after an early impression, you might come to regret it later and decide for another. Wouldn't it be even more stupid not to be able to change your vote for the line-up that you come to like best? I definitely think so.
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ryu
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 05, 2014 10:03 AM |
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Gargoyles
jackson said:
Galaad said:
blizzardboy said:
I think moving gargoyles to dungeon would have been better though
+100000000000000000000000000
I agree with this as well.
I agree. They are part of Warlock castle in HoMM 2. I think they suit well there.
I cannot find Gargoyles among the creatures listed in [url=http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes7/Might_and_Magic_Heroes_7_VII]MMH7 Wiki[/url]. Are they included to any fraction?
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 05, 2014 10:07 AM |
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Gargoyles are part of Academy.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted November 05, 2014 10:09 AM |
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ryu said:
I agree. They are part of Warlock castle in HoMM 2. I think they suit well there.
I cannot find Gargoyles among the creatures listed in MMH7 Wiki. Are they included to any fraction?
They have not been officially announced but presented many times in both artwork and in-game images. They are a core creature, part of Academy.
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Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
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posted November 05, 2014 10:33 AM |
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I don't want Shield to drop from 2nd round.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 05, 2014 11:06 AM |
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Wellplay said:
I don't want Shield to drop from 2nd round.
Me neither. I would love the second round to be between Faces and Shield - man, that would really make things difficult for me; I like them about equally, Faces only slightly more than Shield. I'd have to make some serious considerations on which would get my final vote  .
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 05, 2014 11:13 AM |
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Maurice said:
That's why I said that we'd need to get some sort of campaign . You know, where each of the lineups is presented a week or two prior to the actual voting. People can see what each is about, can discuss it and then eventually the voting opens. One vote, no intermediate results shown. I think that would make for a cleaner outcome .
Problem with that would be terrible time management. Cheating will still happen no matter what. Voting window would be narrower so some people might not be able to vote. Even if all info is given before the vote, voters might still want to change their vote at some point.
This doesn't solve anything, it just makes it more restrictive in the voter's disadvantage.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted November 05, 2014 12:09 PM |
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Although there is much to remark on the elite section, my biggest points of criticism lie with the core section.
I am not such a huge fan of dark elves, so I prefer the inclusion of beasts/spirits over yet another dark elf. Therefore I like trogs and lurkers to be in the core.
Two of the line-ups however have two dark elves in the core and only one beast. This would not be such a disaster if they would have really different roles/feeling, which imo unfortunately is not the case.
Blade has the assassin and the darkblade, with a rather similar role. While I like the assassin, I don't like the darkblade that much. It is supposed to be the dungeon equivalent of the bladedancer, yet it is core instead of elite.
Quote:
Skirmishers are the dark reflections of the Sylvan Blade Dancers, who have developed their own form of Battle Dance, using a spear rather than twin blades.
They should've sticked to the Battle Dance, as it is obviously better.
Furthermore the fact that they suffer no enemy retaliation means that the assassin gets to soak up all the damage; something he is not really suited for.
Faces has the assassin and the stalker. While this is role-wise a much better combination, for me the assassin and the stalker feel as the same unit. Probably because in HV they were both upgrades of the scout. Therefore I strongly prefer the lurker to the stalker as ranged core.
Shield has only one dark elf, which as I said before has my preference. Unfortunately this dark elf is the stalker, which fulfils more-or-less the same role as the lurker. I would've preferred the assassin in its place.
Overall for the core I am torn between Shield and Faces. I think I would like the gameplay of Faces' core better, but Shield imo just has a far better atmosphere.
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This thread is pages long: 
